So, take a project that's been worked on for a very long time, based on a library that's been worked on forever, and make money off of it.

Simply low. If I had admin priveleges, you'd be banned. Permanently. I can't believe what a selfish tool you are that you'd do something that incredibly asinine after mere weeks of development.

Edit: toned language down, maintained angle.

Let me get this straight: You used code people have worked on for years, worked a few weeks on it and now you are asking for donations?
Gotta love open-source, huh?

I like you; you got humour... Perhaps you can think of a few people that don't find that very funny?

hmm whats the link to this latest version i cant see it?

EDIT:

what the hell, i refreshed and its all changed

The idiocy emanates hence. (Dead link removed.)

Wow. Some people need gallons of Midol. Badly.


Miriam: way to go, pulling that just when people were starting to show patience towards you...

It's more like days than weeks. Really bad attitude from Miriam...

I've been reading this thread since it started. Now I need to throw out my uneducated and unsolicited opinion.

I think asking for donations (in this case) is a new low.

I don't get it.... Isn't the software LGPLed?? What's preventing Miriam or anyone from taking the source code, modifying/improving it and asking for donations? AFAIK the LGPL license allows you even to charge for the modified software... (someone correct me here if I am wrong because I am no license expert).

Apparently people in this board have a one sided view of free software. No matter what the license says everybody should abide to a strange and obscure code of ethics otherwise they are satan and flamed accordingly (as a matter of fact I still don't understand what do you expect from free software. Someone would be kind to clarify, please).

That's right, wasn't encspot based on an open source?

That's a total bitch slap to the face of Gambit in my opinion.

If Gambit is offended he can merge MQMs and use his superior webpage and ranking to collect his own funds, or be beyond the politics and ignore the busking.

dare I say 'nice hustle miriam'



edit: ~

i agree with u beto. this beats me too. hey a 20 yr old student is probably trying to make a buck. and not that he has not worked for it at all. if u are offended then dont donate money to him. and yeah he has not violated any license terms too. i dont see how this is a "total bitch slap to the face of gambit". i also feel that members are over reacting when they suggest that miriam be banned. which TOS has he violated?

Here's an analogy that is pretty accurate:

Gambit built a house. He handled all the plumbing, electrical, construction, and so on. Gambit gave the house to the public for its own use, as he felt that's the right thing to do. Miriam came and took the house, did a few renovations, and is now trying to sell it.

Miriam has continually and repeatedly defied the spirit in which Mr QuestionMan was released. While this is not illegal under the licensing terms, it's certainly immoral, especially when the product being sold is much more Gambit's than Miriam's.

For that matter, Mr Questionman is heavily based off of the ATL code. There have been many contributors to ATL, and they are not receiving any of the donated cash at all.

Instead of ever contacting Gambit about modifying MrQ in the true open-source spirit (where a person submits his modifications to the original developer), he proceeded to bump the version number, add a bunch of potentially unstable features, release under the same program name, and so on.

In short, Miriam has not shown to be an individual who cares about the community in which he works. He has shown to be a puerile selfish developer with no respect for the wishes of others. That is why he does not deserve your donations.

?? come on guys. its not that seroius. he contributed some coding effort, and now we have a better product. so i'd say he definately cares for the community. im personally very grateful to gambit and miriam. because of both of them, we have a great program. if i had money, id donate to both of them. but lets not fight about it. remember, the goal here is to develop beneficial products...

anyways, i dont think this is the place to argue about it. this thread should be for discussion on MQM ME. bug reports, questions, and new releases. not ethical arguments.

That analogy is not accurate at all. It's more like Miriam refined the house, built a couple of new rooms and left a basket for people to chip in if they liked the work he did. He's just asking for voluntary donations, for crying out loud, it's not like he's selling the house or pointing a gun at you to give him money. You don't have to give him a single cent if you are offended or don't think he deserves it. People ask for donations all the time, sometimes even for doing practically nothing or for stuff they already get paid to do: "taking care" of your car in a public street, handing you a pre-cut paper towel in restrooms, opening a bottle of beer and giving it to you, etc. Sometimes the donations are actually quite compulsory if you don't want something bad to happen to your car or just to get the already-paid service at all. Sure, it could seem like he's piggybacking on Gambit's work, but it's not like he's not giving him credit or taking anything that should go to him, since Gambit is not asking for donations.
Come on, some guy has supposedly received almost $20,000 (doubtful, but anyway...)just to not eat his rabbit and you are getting all outraged because Miriam does some coding work and wants to see if he gets a few bucks out of it? Chill out.

You don't get it. I don't sold anything. If you don't want to donate, don't, the project will still be maintained as open-source and will still go on, no matter what.
If you actually test Mr QuestionMan vs Mr QuestionMan ME, you'll see that lots of modifications have been made, and, if you read better this thread, you'll see also that a load a new features are on the wish-list.
Also, let's compare source code size:
Mr QuestionMan 0.6: 84 KB of .pas files
Mr QuestionMan ME 0.7 alpha 1: 144 KB of .pas files
What do you say about it? Seems like a lot of work has been done, huh?...
If anyoane accuses me in the name of the community spirit, he has not found the right person. What I did was a real communication between the members of this community, and, if you read better this pages, you'll see that MANY of Mr QuestionMan ME's features are based on community people's requests and many people thanked gratefully to me.
You don't know this: Actually, to appologize -- after that puerile, youthful enthusiastic start, I wrote an email to Gambit, but received no answer.
This is no good ethic, IMHO. If this is the spirit of this community, I'd better retreat from it. But I won't do it, as are numerous guys here that really appreciate my work.

Hell, in the end, remember that Mr QuestionMan (as Mr QuestionMan ME, of course) is like an "envelope" built on top on ATL. As ATL is open-source and joint effort of many people, not only Gambit. Everyone has the right to use it and make a damn file analysis program and call it whetever he likes. He also has the right to ask for a buck for that application (GUI), as that is his work.
Is Gambit & co. don't ask for donations for ATL, is their business.
That doesn't mean I violate the ethics because I've put a damn "Donate" button on my page.
Actually, it has started to annoy me thinks like "whoa, you wrote 3 lines of code and know this...". This kind of people know nothing about programming.
I'm really upset on some of this board members' attitude.
I'll take into consideration changing the program's name (AFAIK, I didn't like it from the start - I admit), and more.
PS: It'll stay open-source.

Have a good day!

I think that you're overreacting Canar. I definitely agree that Miriam's is not the most considerate of actions, but what TOS did he violate to be banned?


Miriam did not "sell" anything, nor did he "take" and "own" anything more than the rights to maintain his fork of the open-source project.

By the same logic, waiters asking for tips should be outright banned from working since they didn't plow the field, grow the crop, and cook the meal? Miriam did make contributions. Those contributes are massively dwarfed when compared to Gambit's - but claiming that this makes his request for donations is atrociously bannably wrong seems a bit overreactive.

Further, Gambit's decision not to ask for donations is... just that, Gambit's decision. That does not make Miriam's decision more wrong.


Forks happen all the time in the open-source community. If one agrees with the ideology of the original developer, they join the team. If not, they start a fork. If anything, the open-source spirit strongly promotes that anyone can take the code and have rights to do many things with it, making forks and re-releasing them being a MAJOR part of those rights. Major examples: Unix -> coporate unices. BSD -> [Net/Open/Free]BSD. Linux -> countless kernel variations. emacs -> [GNU/x]emacs. XFree86 -> xorg. GIMP -> cinepaint. Countless minour examples.


There Miriam is at major fault - he is starting a fork, but he instead bumped a version number and released under the same name. However, he did apologise for this action and proceeded to rename the program "ME".


Uh... the majority of the thread features him implementing suggestions of the community. I don't think you can say that.

I do agree however that he hasn't shown too much respect for Gambit. He should very actively try to work things out with him.


I wholeheartedly agree that he did not do enough work to deserve donations - so, just don't give him donations. His asking for them is not atrociously "wrong", however.

Well then, in the same friendly spirit, the best thing to do would be for Gambit to back-port the mods into his fork of MrQ and remove the money-begging.



I'm also a Delphi coder. Gambit's attempted on several occasions to recruit me to help out with his projects. Don't presume to know my understanding of coding.

Anyhow, I still find the whole enterprise morally bankrupt, but apparently some of you disagree. Like they say, arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics...

right on..

All I see is a poor bastard steeling a small and friendly project and adding but a few shitty lines of code.
Oh ..and I mean what I say and I know how to code as well...

and if I violated some kind of TOS sorry but since I did already violated then I can repeat that any guy who embarks on a little skim like that is a poor bastard.. hope I made myself clear...

What a lowlife...

I you don't want to pay, just don't do it. It's that simple. And please stop bitching around, it's annoying as hell.
It was his decision to ask people to donate, he's not forcing anyone. If I'd like people to donate for something I had written fine it's my decision and no one has the right to criticize me for it. Period!

keywords here are "I had written" ....unless you fail to grasp that then you belong in the same category as described above

How many people have ever bought a Microsoft product? I'm guessing well over 90% of us. That company has made untold amounts of money by buying the work of others cheaply, and using their marketing savvy to resell it for a gigantic profit. This practice is indicative of a high degree of greed, and in my opinion, is on somewhat sketchy moral ground, but it is perfectly legal. What Miriam has done is a service for many of us, and he has been honest and open about it. He has contributed many hours to this project in a short period of time. Many of us (including myself) have personally asked him to contribute features to this program - in short, we have asked him to work for us, for free. If we ran a business and expected that of our employees, how long would our employees work enthusiastically for us? If you don't get anything from Miram's devoted efforts, then don't give him money. If you have received tremendous value from his work, then perhaps you might consider donating.

I love donating to open source software projects. In fact, I almost spend more money on free software than on commercial software these days, because it's just that important to me. It's a way that I can help out the authors without a tremendous amount of learning and time involved. If I request a new feature, or a fix in some kind of open source software, I almost always donate some small amount of money to those who are willing to put forth the effort. (When I'm filthy rich, maybe it'll be more than a small amount )

We *do* live in a society that rewards business sensibility and marketing savvy more than, say logical problem solving ability. It may be that open source software is intended to counter that trend by shifting the focus more towards technical achievement than marketing impact. It appears that most of the crowd around here embraces the ideals of open source software - I certainly do. What I would recommend is for Miriam to talk to Gambit about this, and ask for Gambit to set up a similar donate account. Whatever Miriam receives for MQM ME, perhaps Miriam could donate a part of his donations to Gambit based on what Gambit's efforts are worth to him. Would that not be fair for everyone?

Miram is not selling a product. He's not even selling a service. There are people out there who approach you on the street and want money to buy booze. There are people who play the music of others, and busk, expecting people to chip in a quarter here and there. Miriam is applying his own talents and time to do things that some of us are asking him to do, and he is leaving his "guitar case" open should any of us appreciate it. I don't think that his actions are devoid of honor. Perhaps it wasn't the best taste in the world for Miriam to put the donate button up there so soon, and without much communication occurring with Gambit, but I think the degree to which some of you have chastised him is just sad, and borders on immaturity. If it's such a bad thing to expect to be rewarded for hard work and having an open-minded attitude towards the suggestions of others, then we live in a sick world. If we think that it's okay to simply leech from the efforts of others, and balk at even the thought of having to put our own time or effort or money in, then are we really anything other than parasites? Miriam has contributed his time. I don't see others (aside from Gambit, obviously) making a similar effort. Perhaps we should show more appreciation, and less lashing out every time we disagree with another.


P.S.
Software isn't too much like a house - it's more like the blueprints for a house. That's the beauty of it. I wish we could download the blueprints for a house, and just "print it out" and live in it!

And the guy holding his rabbit for ransom is sick, no doubt. If you are going to chastise somebody, then there is someone who deserves it. Maybe I'll donate one canadian cent just so I can send him a message that he is a sick bastard for hijacking people's emotions like that for profit. (I'm not so concerned about the life of the bunny rabbit, but it's the PEOPLE who actually give him money that I'm concerned about).

edit: Clarification

Sick world indeed , hard work I doubt...

BTW do you plan to become a lawyer or a politician...
I would donate you 2 cents so you do not donate him anything...

If you want people to donate or just pat you at the back then write some real original code from scratch, it is sickening to see such a small ready made project based on the work of Jurgen (ATL) a few others and Gambit to pack it all together to end up like that.
For god shake even the idea is not original...

It's OK for Miriam to make use of the source code for Mr. QuestionMan since it it GNU LGPL.

What is not OK is to use the name Mr. QuestionMan for his new "creation".

GNU LGPL only allows the source code to be reused.
Gambit will always have the rights to the name Mr. QuestionMan.

Miriam had a choice here:
- Either work together with Gambit on improving Mr.QuestionMan, or
- Make a branch and name it without violating Gambits right to the name

It is OK that Miriam is asking for donations, however it should not be done as a cheap trick to cash in on the goodwill surrounding the name Mr.QuestionMan.

Miram has to come up with a different name that do not in anyway resemble Mr.QuestionMan.

So in short: The source code was free for all to use, but Miriam has stolen the name.

I agree that he stole everything/name/concept code and in a surprisingly amount of time set up a donation thingy.

Use the ATL code and write a real app, do not abuse it, only a poor bastard would do something like that, period.

Those who insult people, are the real bastards -- in all situations. You've insulted me many times. Period.
If you see, I didn't make big noise about donation, just a message on my webpage, that's all. I don't force anyone to donate. Clear?

Go back under the rock you came from.

I wouldn't accuse Miriam of stealing, as he promptly modified the name as soon as this board pointed out it was wrong. He's also planning to entirely change it with the next version.

Keep in mind Miriam is not forcing you to pay a cent. If you feel his work warrants financial compensation, then it's up to you to follow up on it. If not, don't.

People make mistakes. What separates the wise ones from the fuckwits is that the former identify them, learn from them, and rectify them. Miriam has proven himself to be a learner, and thus earns my respect. Once the hyperbole dies down, you should see why he should earn yours, too.

Few things hurt more than seeing enthusiasm so blindly and rabidly torn apart.

Cheers,
CD

Thank you Compact Dick, you have perfectly right.
I embrace totally your opinion.

All my respects.

Myriam has made a lot of nice improvements on the program! I hope he will find the courage to develop this program further! Keep up the good work!

It's not a matter of name it is a matter of concept, if I was Gambit I would be really confused as if I should release anothe version of the original software because some guy went on and stole the concept bit by bit.

In short this is a typical lowlife behavior.

It is not his program.

Once Miriam changes the name completely I'm happy.

Whether Mr.QuestionMan or Miriam's product fairs best in the future, will depend on who best listens to users and who makes the most robust and error free application.

Competition is generally a good thing (even friendly competition) and I wish both Gambit and Miriam all the best.

OMG thats just the sense of (L)GPL software, everyone has the right to use the code and modify it. Why the hell should he be allowed to take donations as every open source project does ?
You would be happier if all those changes which I think are really nice should not have been made ? Or made by Gambit. I don't think this is how open source works...

he didn't steal it. calm down jtclipper.
as far as I get it, he had the full rights to modify the app. all that's left there for discussion may be be his behavior regarding communication with Gambit, but even there he apologized.
sum up: Miriam made some mistakes but realized it. now he set up a donation button. ignore it or use it. in any case, don't bitch around about about something not worth it

edit: spelling

I it is nice to see non coders react like you do cause you cannot feel like a coder feels.

He should have contacted Gambit and contribute his few lines of code and then he might earn a place in the about box.

If he wants to apologize then this is what he must do right now, cooperate with the original dude and if donations should be made it should be a unanimous decision.

In all other scenarios he is the person I graphically described in my posts above.

Hi jtclipper,

do you realise Mr. QuestionMan is released under the LGPL license, which renders legitimate all of Miriam's actions (except the initial lack of name change)?

In other words, he hasn't stole anything. Stop perpetuating this fallacy.

Quoting your modified post:



If you didn't want someone using your code and forking it, why would you release it under the LGPL license, which explicitly allows it?

Miriam owes no more apologies to anyone.

If he came from under a rock, where did you crawl from? Some person's guts?

Absolutely correct.

if how a coder feels equals your behaviour in this thread, I rather don't want to know anyway.
without wanting to miscredit Gambit, it seems that it is/was not alwasy that easy to communicate with him.
edit: at least so it seems regarding Vlad's comments.


yep, let's get back to a more productive level, should we?

There is no place for little spawns like that, license or no license it is what makes sense don't try to hang on to the lessening thing cause he already violated it using the exact carbon copy of the app + name...

He should immediately merge efforts and code with Gambit and have a unified project.

Refreshing remark....

For starters, it's not such a little spawn as Miriam already implemented a lot of stuff.

Second, who knows if it won't grow much bigger on time? It's already being developed much faster than the original MrQ. aoTuV also started small. Most original eMule mods were small code tweaks and patches. And so on.



Haw haw, here comes the clue train, last stop is you: Gambit is not willing to implement several features Miriam implemented. So give up that far-fetched idea already.

jtclipper, I find your remarks mean-spirited, uninformed and totally clueless (yes, that's redundant). Kindly cease appending more evidence of your lack of a brain so I can get back to my movie.

Thanks,
CD

It is a little bitty peice of spawn anyway you see it.

If he wants to set up a webpage paypal account and the works then he should consider adding the follwing.

Full support for all formats, graph displays with bitrate distribution for all VBR formats, detailed reports a new name and all the people's names that the code he used in the about box.

Other than that it will alwayd be a copy paste add a few lines compile and put my name all over it thing LGPL or not it makes no difference to me, if Gambit does not want to write any more lines then this project should become like e-mule yuo keep mentioning..
Original author Merkur
..

blah blah blah

go back to your movie please.

The pleasure it holds means nothing when I am compelled to defend victims of injustice and slander.

I think that the same phrase was used from a crooks lawyer

You barely even make sense. And you don't know how to use punctuation. Why do you still insist in making a fool out of yourself around here? Gave up on your dignity already?

And (for the part I could understand, related to eMule): Miriam is still giving lots of credit to Gambit. So what's the chill?

What do not you understand about the features a real encspot alternative should have?