So it doesn't happen with the iTunes encoder?

I have tested the iTunes mp3 encoder at the following settings:
- MP3 128kbps VBR Highest Quality
- MP3 192kbps VBR Highest Quality
- MP3 256kbps VBR Highest Quality

Only with LAME is it possible to create the problem.

i just bought an iriver h320 for 210 used shipped.

i had one before but i had to sell it cos i needed money this is purrrrfect

The stuttering / skipping on that song is terrible!

I have added the lossless sample and updated my initial post:
Nine Inch Nails - Right Where it Belongs

Just a hint:

Searching about general AAC compatibility on iPod, I've found this topic about Nero AAC skipping, and, although the discussion wasn't thoroughly conclusive, there were indications about iTunes tagging system. By any chance, could VBR stuttering be aliviated if iTunes had the opportunity of analysing the music files before upoloading to iPod?

P.S.: Sorry if this is B.S., I don't have an iPod, but I'd like one very much, and I'm very sensitive about such bug reports.

Having just acquired a 2nd gen mini, I loaded on some of the test samples from sehested's original post. Thought my results would be of interest.

Results so far:

Five_Years_20s.mp3 - slight stutter just prior to file's end (possibly due to the mp3 slice?)

Five_Years_LAME.mp3 - plays perfectly

AWS_HOPE_XM_cut.mp3 - one tiny gap in playback around the 14 second mark

EQ was off for all of these tests.

What about NIN? The stuttering is quite obvious at the end on that song.

Are you sure that the clock speed was not 80 all along?

If your iPod was connected to the computer it would stay at 80. Also sometimes the clock speed gets stuck on 80 and speed optimisation isn't used. To rule out this from happening you can reset your iPod by pressing and holding MENU and select for a couple of seconds.

I have personally checked two 2G minis that both have the problem.

Eventually Apple will release new iPod mini software that should fix the problem. My 2G mini came with version 1.3. What version are you running?

Hi sehested,

Thanks for the info. You're right... I just encoded the NIN file and loaded it on the ipod. I get an obvious breakup at 10s, again at 19s, and a bit right at the end of the file. By far this is the worst of the batch.

My firmware is also 1.3, fresh out of the box, running on battery, no EQ. I did a reset to double-check and all results are the same.

hi... I sent my iPod in service (for this and a wheel problem)
I had it replaced yesterday. this morning I tried new and was orrible discover that same problem was there!! I thought about use of goPod, something wrong in these bytes that changes (w/no chance to take it back)...
now I discover this thread and wooo that's enough for me as I was thinking about a ipod window-falling..

yes, that's a bad thing, iTunes encoder even with best setting doesn't sound as lame 3.90, so I think it's better place the EQ in some likely setting and we'll see.

sehested: thank you, you saved my new pod from burning in deep flames...

You're welcome

some reported EVERY sample I sent (mine too... and yours) are PERFECT on iPOD Mini 2G... you know what means...

...is changed something... chip... some component... some internal algorithm...
ours are really "different"... I think about some cost-reduction or other contracts with suppliers and different chips.

italian forum is alerted now.
whe must stay united because something is changed inside.
if it's an update problem well... it will be fast... if not...

Here is one more confirmation of the stated problem with the NIN sample. Played fine in the dock (lame 3.96.1 --preset standard). When disconnected, however, the mini 2g stuttered badly.

Apple just released iPod Updater 2005-06-26 with iPod mini software 1.4.

The stuttering issue remains...

They have known the issue and have yet failed to address it.

Makes you wonder if they are rather content with the fact that LAME has compatibility issues with iPod mini.

I'm going to let them know once more at the Apple Discussion forum

I finally am able to confirm this issue (I tried out those audio files the other night).

Did not try the new iPod update, but it sounds like it did not fix the problem

yes
update didn't fix..............
....
...
..
.

Hey i have great news! More bad samples! Green Day - Brain Stew and Jimi Hendrix - Wild Thing (off the Voodoo Child collection). Brain Stew stutters at the beginning and Wild Thing stutters at 4:44 into the song. I guess it's well confirmed by now though, but you may have wanted to know... Has anyone had problems with vbr aac similar to the ones with lame? I am going to run these samples with nero's vbr aac transparency setting to see if they still stutter. I'll report back soon.

the problem doesn't occur if the EQ is on, right?!

Arrrg.... was really hoping this problem would be "cured" today but this is not surprising. Well, I guess that will give us more time to file bug reports before the next update.

sehested,
Do you know what causes the clock speed to sometimes get stuck on 80? I noticed my battery level declining faster than it should the past few days, and when the problematic LAME aps files played perfectly I realized that clock speed optimization was off. Not sure how this happened.

Right.

But, I personally prefer the flat EQ and to choose another EQ setting will fail to reproduce the sound as I want to hear it.

Happens for me too occassionally, but I still haven't figured out what causes it.

nero vbr aac seems to be fine with the problematic songs.

I installed iPod Linux on my 4G iPod and it handles every --aps I threw at it without any pops or clicks or stutters at all. I can't wait until it matures a little more.

And as of tonight iPod Linux works on 2nd gen Minis.

I don't know, but I'm sure that when running ipod Linux the clock speed on the ipod runs higher, so no you wouldn't have this problem. But it does play flac

I wonder if the "new" 20gb 'color' ipods have the skipping problem, and how about your ipod photo 1g 60gb you have? did u try updating that and see if the problem was still there ? thx

I have a 40GB 4th gen iPod and I have yet to run into any problem files.

It's good to hear that I'm not the only one with these problems.

There really doesn't seem to be much information online about this topic.

I have a 2G ipod mini, I've only experienced the skipping on about 3 of the 750 songs that I've got loaded onto the ipod and they are all VBR. I've also noticed that on these three songs the rock equalization trick does not work for me, the files still skip.

Hopefully we will see a fix to this problem soon!

In the meantime I'll be encoding using --alt-preset cbr 192

If using EQ doesn't cure the problem on your three songs, you might be experiencing a different problem.

You can use the test samples in this thread to test if your 2G iPod mini has the stuttering problem.

What are the three songs that are giving you problems?

Well, it really does seem to be the same problem to me.

The songs i'm having problems with are...

Fiery Furnaces - Single Again (only skips once, pretty minor stuttering)
Architeture in Helsinki - Frenchy, I'm Faking (this one's really bad, i can't get through the song without skipping it)

All of the files are VBR... I even decoded the mp3's back to wav's, then re-encoded them back to CBR, the CBR files play just fine. (i know this is terrible for quality, but it's just a test) So for now, that's my solution.

I'm still using the version 1.3 firmware for my ipod, is it possible that the eq trick only works with version 1.4?

i've noticed that in some instances that if i delete a skipping song and add it again that the skip is gone, it worked for "Elliot Smith - I didn't understand" which is encoded at a CBR of 320.... i've tried this numerous times with the two songs listed above but it just doesn't work for them

actually, this is getting really annoying... i've dumped my entire library from the ipod and loaded it back on again.... skips disappear from some songs but show up in others that were fine. grrrrr

no, version 1.4 doesn't address any of that and the EQ thing also works with 1.3...be aware that upgrading to 1.4 will stop your iPod from updating Smart Playlist on the go...

has anyone tried this?

http://txfx.net/2005/02/08/vbr-mp3-fix/

you don't need this tool unless you got your files from dubious sources...it also destroys the LAME-Header, so it shouldn't be used unless there's a real problem, which won't happen with files you rip and encode properly using one of LAME's presets.

what do you mean obtain files from dubious sources? whether files are downloaded or not, they still skip on iPod. I only have a 3G at the moment, but can anyone confirm (preferably Sehested or people with 2G mini/ipod photo) and see if this is a plausible fix? Not really sure what you mean by lame-header, pardon my ignorance.

here, try this sample NIN right where it belongs, run with VBRfix

Files whose origin is unknown could be encoded by little known mp3 encoders or with settings causing problems.

I have tried the tool (Windows version 1.0), but it screwing up the mp3 so f2k now displays the wrong play time.
I stopped further investigation of the tool right there and I must admit that the tool appears rather dubious. Anyway LAME should not need a tool to replace its header.

A mp3 file contains a header with information on bit-rate, length etc.. This information is used by mp3 players to display the correct play time of a song. Apparently slightly different types of headers are used by the different mp3 encoders.

Did you try it on the actual iPod though and see if it fixed the skips? That'd be most pertinent. i tried doing a few mp3s, and they read fine on f2k.

Might just be,,, oh i have no idea

Tried your VBRfixed version of NINright on my 2G iPod mini. It still stutters.

I'm relieved. I know , with certainty , there will be a fix as long as it is brought to Apple's attention.

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/ipod...ameencoder.html

they support LAME and offer it to download on their site. So LAME isn't the enemy in their eyes. yey, this was a relief (dunno if its old news)

all I said was that the tool you mentioned won't fix the iPod problem at all, since it's not related to it in any way. It will just fix some files that got screwed up, which normally doesn't happen, unless you got them from someone who used a weird encoder along with pretty scary settings and aborted the download at 98% or tried to cut them with one of the countless mp3 tools floating around online...

Those tools should only be used if it can't be avoided...and by no means should be run recursively on an entire mp3 collection just in case...

Anyway, the stutter problem even occurs if the files were properly encoded with LAME...

I just misunderstood what you said. Sorry

yeah, sorry, that's my bad... files i encode myself with lame will have proper headers... this tool isn't fixing anything...

that's definitely some good news, they're saying that files encoded with lame should play fine on the ipod and clearly they do not...

(the settings they use for the example on their page is --alt-preset standard!)

i'd really just like to hear some feedback from apple, just an acknowledgement of the problem... at least that way we'd know that they're working on it.

Hi there,

I have a brand new 20gig ipod photo. I have downloaded and tested both sample files and have experienced no problems. Yes I did disable the equalizer.

I am running the latest firmware 2005-06-26.

Any other samples i should try?

The title of this thread would lead one to surmise that the problems mentioned relate to the mini and not your particular model.

however if you read the thread you would have noticed other models have been mentioned as well.

Yeah, but the problem is only related to the 2G iPod mini.
I have personally tested 4G iPod and 1G iPod mini and they don't have the problem. Furthermore no users of other iPods than the 2G iPod mini have reported the problem.

BTW Just discovered that "A Satisfied Mind" by Johnny Cash has the most obvious stuttering of all songs I heard right in the beginning

i'm getting 2g mini today (read below) so i'll test and see if theres stutter.

Just brought a 4G colour iPod.

Thought that would cure the problem... And it almost did!

However still stutters on the NIN - Right Where it Belongs sample...

I'd say: It's going to be darn hard to find any songs that stutters on the 4G colour iPod, but they do exist.

What's more: It did not help using the Bass Reducer EQ settings, however Acoustic will do the trick.

good god sehested, why do you go through so many DAP's?

almost as many as I do

Actually, I just brought four 4G color iPod's for my employees
Going to use them as an indispensable tool, sort of an electronic pocket book with a lot of information.

just tested my 6gb green and it skipped with both five years and nin.

but with acoustic eq, it didn't

oh well, i dont think i'll transcode -- how long does the battery last (roughly) with an eq cranked?