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Qjimbo
Quicktip: To fix the channel order after you rip them with the program use Wavewizard.

And MrMayhem thats pretty interesting, I had no idea there was anything out there that could play MLPs besides the Surcode tool.
MrMayhem
QUOTE (Qjimbo @ Apr 26 2006, 09:20 AM) *
And MrMayhem thats pretty interesting, I had no idea there was anything out there that could play MLPs besides the Surcode tool.


Yep, its pretty interesting. I just wanna be sure that when I play the MLPs, it still 24/192, even though I dont use the DVD-Audio player. I'll try to use RIAA and see what I come up with.
ElevSkyMovie
Does anyone know if the tools Maxima wrote work on LPCM (non-MLP) tracks?
kaiwei
I second that. I successfully ripped Buena Vista Social Club & John Coltrane - Blue Trane, the former 24/96 & the later 24/192 and compressed both of them using wavpack -hm.

It goes like this:
For an encrypted disk, (uncrypted start from step 3)

1) dvdaripper+WinDVD6->unecrypted AOBs/VOBs
2) UltraISO to create a non-ecrypted DVD-Audio Image (ISO)
3) ppcmripper+WinDVD6 -> wavs (use windvd to select surround or stereo when clicking play if needed)
4) Foobar2000 ver0.91 to combine the wav files and generate a cuesheet
5) Wavpack 4.31 to compress the single wav file

Fb2k 0.91 seems to have problems writing the 24/192 wav (2.7gb) file though. It keeps messing up the last track in John Coltrane - Blue Trane although the generated cuesheet looks fine. ver 0.83 with diskwriter and cuesheet output solves the problem. The above steps should produce a single compressed file with its cuesheet.

Enjoy!
trochim
I found a way how to decode MLP files without DVDAtools.

1. Install DiscWelder Chrome (it supports MLP). It works without activation for 15 days.
2. Set the temp folder.
3. Import only one MLP file you want to decode
4. Enable creating DVD Video compatible discs (it's somewhere in project propeties)
5. Start the job

The program decodes MLP files to 6 24 bit WAV files in temp folder, and then prepares the DVD Video authoring. Copy temp WAV files to another folder.
HotshotGG
QUOTE
1. Install DiscWelder Chrome (it supports MLP). You can found it on various torrent sites or p2p. It works without activation for 15 days.


This is a T.O.S #9 violation right here or something along those lines. wink.gif
rainiere
Hi everybody,

I've read all posts in this topic, and just like some people I can't get dvdaripper to function.
I'm using WinDVD 7.0.27.71 (with the DVD-Audio pack installed) and an Audigy 2 sound card.

A DVD containing DVD-Audio (the quadrophonic mix of Pink Floyd's The Dark Side Of The Moon) is in drive e:

Now, when I type dvdaripper e:\audio_ts c:\rip WinDVD starts to play the DVD-Audio but no wavs are written to c:\rip.

Am I using the wrong WinDVD-version? Am I missing something? Can anybody give a hint?
broski
QUOTE (rainiere @ Jul 13 2006, 02:06) *
Now, when I type dvdaripper e:\audio_ts c:\rip WinDVD starts to play the DVD-Audio but no wavs are written to c:\rip.

Am I using the wrong WinDVD-version? Am I missing something? Can anybody give a hint?


Try uninstalling Creative's DVD-audio player that installs with the Audigy.
rainiere
QUOTE (broski @ Jul 13 2006, 12:07) *
QUOTE (rainiere @ Jul 13 2006, 02:06) *

Now, when I type dvdaripper e:\audio_ts c:\rip WinDVD starts to play the DVD-Audio but no wavs are written to c:\rip.

Am I using the wrong WinDVD-version? Am I missing something? Can anybody give a hint?


Try uninstalling Creative's DVD-audio player that installs with the Audigy.


Thanks for your reply, but I don't have the Creative DVD-audio player installed...

Help anybody?
jhoff80
It won't work if the folder doesn't exist already, is that your problem?

I have a question of my own. How can you figure out the bitrate of the DVD-A tracks? None of my discs say bitrate, but instead say "High resolution" or "Advanced resolution"

Edit: Never mind, apparently DVDAexplorer can tell me that.

kaiwei, is there any reason you're ripping to 6 audio files and then combining them to one rather than using a multichannel wave from the start, and then fixing them in WaveWizard?
randal1013
i recently bought a couple DVD-A albums and i've been playing them on my computer, listening with headphones with the surround sound option. i've noticed it seems like there's a channel missing on occasion when an instrument will pan around. is this a problem of my dvd player (plextor px-708A), my soundcard (onboard AC 97), or my headphones (sennheiser PX100)? or a combo? i'd like to rip the surround audio (i've set up all the programs and such that i've seen people recommend in this thread) and i'm wondering what i need to get/change in order to hear everything.
thomasmarup
hi

randal1013 i was wondering how you listen to the multichannel content with headphones. are you using some kind of dsp in foobar? i have an x-fi platinum card, which can make alot of audio processing on-board. is there any way to have it emulate surround using all 6 channels of the audio?

Thomas
randal1013
QUOTE (thomasmarup @ Sep 3 2006, 09:09) *
randal1013 i was wondering how you listen to the multichannel content with headphones. are you using some kind of dsp in foobar? i have an x-fi platinum card, which can make alot of audio processing on-board. is there any way to have it emulate surround using all 6 channels of the audio?

i've been using windvd7. as far as i can tell, foobar can't read DVD-A. i don't know how to get full surround sound. i just remembered my onboard soundcard has a few bells and whistles, and one of them is a 6-channel mode for 5.1 speaker output. i've also updated the firmware for my dvd player and at least one channel still isn't getting played. i tried my roomate's $100+ sony headphones and the channel is still missing. either both our headphones can't play 5.1 or my dvd player can't read it. i've been looking through online documentation and i can't find anything about the headphones and dvd player supporting or not supporting 5.1.
thomasmarup
I dont really se how you intend to play 5.1 sound using a normal set of stereo headphones. what i meant is that there are processing technology available which which is able to simulate surround sound using a pair of stereo headphones. it works by somehow by delaying the same sound a fraction of time, compared to other channels

Is there anybody able to clear op on this subject?

Thomas
randal1013
QUOTE (thomasmarup @ Sep 4 2006, 07:53) *
I dont really se how you intend to play 5.1 sound using a normal set of stereo headphones. what i meant is that there are processing technology available which which is able to simulate surround sound using a pair of stereo headphones. it works by somehow by delaying the same sound a fraction of time, compared to other channels

i just found a DSP for foobar. ATSurround Prcoessor. you can convert ripped 5.1 waves using this DSP to simulate surround sound.
thomasmarup
ok ill give it a try, thanks
j7n
QUOTE (trochim @ Jul 8 2006, 08:01) *
1. Install DiscWelder Chrome (it supports MLP). It works without activation for 15 days.

Is there a way get only the main application to work without all the drivers (GEAR, USB dongle). I'm afraid to wreck my stable system by attempting to install these. DiscWelder doesn't need to physcially weld anything in this case.

Edit: Installed DiscWelder Chrome without drivers. I deleted all drivers and their uninstallers from the directory of the InstallShield installer (before running it). Setup complained a few times, but that's all. Chrome is working properly as far as audio decoding and AC3 encoding goes.

Edit 2: Unfortunately it still installed GEAR registry entries, and made my optical drives invisible upon restart. I hate software which comes distributed in installers and requires an installer.
Torch
QUOTE (thomasmarup @ Sep 4 2006, 17:23) *
I dont really se how you intend to play 5.1 sound using a normal set of stereo headphones. what i meant is that there are processing technology available which which is able to simulate surround sound using a pair of stereo headphones. it works by somehow by delaying the same sound a fraction of time, compared to other channels

Is there anybody able to clear op on this subject?

Thomas


To play 5.1 on stereo headphones you must either
1) Perform a direct downmix from 5.1 to 2 channels by merging the channels.
2) Simulate "fake" 5.1 using various algorigthms like Dolby Headphone or Creative CMSS3D Headphone.
For Dolby Headphone use powerdvd and choose it there.

For Creative CMSS3d u need an Audigy or X-Fi card. Then in your player choose 6 channel speaker mode, but in the creative config choose headphones and enable the CMSS3d.

Personally i find that Dolby Headphone ownz CMSS3D for music. But in games the combination of EAX+CMSS3d is better.
krabapple
QUOTE (jhoff80 @ Aug 2 2006, 11:25) *
I have a question of my own. How can you figure out the bitrate of the DVD-A tracks? None of my discs say bitrate, but instead say "High resolution" or "Advanced resolution"

Edit: Never mind, apparently DVDAexplorer can tell me that.


WinDVD (6.0 B06.083 is the version I use) can also give you that information. With a track playing, right-click in the display window. This opens a large submenu; select 'Setup' , then select the "Information" tab. It will show you lots of data, among which will be something like this (this happens to be for a stereo DVD-A track):


CODE
Audio:
    Hardware:
        Audio Device: directsound
        S/PDIF: None
        Number of speakers: 2
    Stream:
        Type: Packed PCM
        Bitrate: 4608 Kbps
        Number of main channels: 2
        LFE Channel: None
        Sampling Frequency: 96khz
        Bits Per Sample: 24
    Output:
        Sample Rate: 48 KHz
        Bits per Sample: 16


If you are using PPCMRipper with a decrypted source, the data will be saved in the format shown in 'Stream' (96/24 in this case). The Output format is what's coming out of your (my) speakers from WinDVD -- I suspect WinDVD 6 doesn't do 24 bit output, even though it can decode 24 files. I've noticed too that the output sample rate always seems to be half the source rate (as long as that's above 48 khz), so for a 192 kHz source I see 96 in the Output report.
krabapple
More musings on DVDA ripping....

I do the usual thing:
1) create repository folder(s) somewhere on my hard drive
2) load disc; check DVD-A stereo file format with WinDVD; then close WinDVD
3) run DVDAripper.exe to extract decrypted files to the folders I created
4) burn the extracted files to a DVD ISO image (I use CDBurnerXP Pro)
5) mount the image with DaemonTools
6) run PPCMripper.exe; select virtual drive and 'stereo' tracks in WinDVD (also make sure 96/24 decoding is active) ; save wavs
7) compress with FLAC; archive; play back with foobar2k

I've tried half a dozen now and have encountered various quirks and roadblocks. I should note too that thus far I've only been interested in making copies of the stereo tracks, for archiving on my hard disc jukebox.
Not interested in the video at all, though I sometimes have to grab that too (see below). Am a bit daunted by the prospect of archiving and playing multichannel audio, but that must happen eventually, as it's too convenient for me to pass up forever.

Reports on individual discs (usually referring to the stereo tracks only):

Steely Dan Everything Must Go (192/24, though the packaging says 96/24) was my learning curve disc, but once I got the above pipeline running, I was able to grab it flawlessly...and to see that there is actually some 'bad' peak limiting (13 samples wide or more) on a Steely Dan release ! How times have changed.... laugh.gif Also, not much energy above 48 , just a few spikes.

Neil Young's Harvest (192/24) also came off without a hitch. THis one has such a peculiar surround mix that I really just like it for the stereo remastering and the hilarious vintage documentary footage of NY and his barn. Btw, no peak limiting on the stereo tracks on this one; not even much evidence of compression. Pretty old school! And again, spectral view shows hardly any energy above 48 kHz in the stereo mix.

Yes Fragile (96/24) -- as reported before, the surround tracks have been pretty obviously limited to a 24 kHz , even though they are formatted as 96khz sample rate. I can't imagine it matters much. The stereo tracks (also 96/24, despite the claim on the package of 192/24) have energy to 48 khz, but it's way down in level. Huge amounts of compression on this one (stereo) -- Roundabout is like a fuzzy brick for much of its length -- but no true flat peaks that I can see. Tips of peaks go right up to 0 dB instead. Looks very mcuh the same as what I got when I recorded the analog stereo output of the DVD-A to 96/24 wav via my M-Audio 2496 card.

Deep Purple Machine Head (96/24). To get this one to work, I had to rip both the AUDIO_TS and the VIDEO_TS folders and include them in the ISO image, maybe because you have to go through two damn graphics (one with sound) to get to the menus. Once I did that PPCMripper/WinDVD worked fine (even though WinDVD will NOT play the DVD-A section of the original disc itself, for some reason). Haven't really looked at the wavs for spectral content yet.

Talking Heads Speaking in Tongues (DualDisc 96/24). This one stumped me for some time. As with Machine Head, the DVD-A tracks from the disc won't play in WinDVD, but including audio and video folders in the ISO didn't fix it. All I get is a hissing noise from what should be music tracks. PPCMripper doesn't even try to rip them when I load the ISO. I finally realized that, according to WinDVD, the audio tracks aren't PPCM, they're LPCM (Machine Head's read as PPCM, as do the Neil Young, Yes, and Dan tracks). So I'm probably SOL. The stereo Dolby Digital tracks are AC3; I mention this only because....

Al Green Greatest Hits (48/24). THis disc is notorious in the DVD-A listening world for being badly authored. It stumped many an early DVD-A player, requiring creative navigation on the user's part to actually get it to play music. It stumps WinDVD 6 too, until you manuallyk navigate to Group 06, whereupon you can select from the stereo tracks. Why can I do this with Al Green but not Talking Heads? It seems to be because on the Al Green disc, the 48/24 stereo tracks are the ONLY stereo tracks; they're accessible from the DVD-V area too, along with DTS 5.1 and DD 5.1. THis is not necessarily a bad thing, it's just a confusing thing. But alas they are LPCM , not PPCM, so PPCM ripper refuses to even see them. I was able to grab them with DGIndex though. Not really sure it was worth it. (And yes, I then tried DGIindex on the Talking Heads image, and no, it didn't work for grabbing those LPCM tracks).

Billy Cobham Spectrum (96/24) -- this is a two-sided disc, one side is devoted to the Advanced Res Stereo tracks, making life easier...or not, since WinDVD refuses to play it correctly from the start. Digging into the navigation menu brings me to Group 04, track 7, which is the track selection menu. Oy vey, turns out the tracks are LPCM. At this point, I quit this disc to regroup and attack another day.

Queen Night at the Opera ( 96/24 ) Another infamous nightmare disc (thank you so much, DVD-A makers, for never standardizing DVD-A authoring; it really keeps things interesting). Black screen after loading the disc; navigating to group 02 reveals the track list, which fortunately seems to be the STEREO tracklist, but it's a craphsoot whether anything will actually play (the first track link seems to work....but loads all 12 tracks as one long play) . And oh look, the tracks are LPCM, not PPCM, isn't that special. Save for tomorrow.

I note too that WinDVD seems to be cutting me off at 30 secs of play on various discs...not a good sign. Luckily it seems not to apply to ripping the AOBs from disc and .wavs from ISO images...
Lysander
I'm having the same problem as someone else earlier on the page, only I'm using WinDVD5 instead of 6 (can't find 6.) I type dvdaripper e:\audio_ts c:\blah (c:\blah is already created)... it launches WinDVD and begins to play (actually, right now it's playing Lateralus in my CD drive even though I told it to access the Complex in my DVD drive). IN the console window it says "waiting for WinDVD add-on load completion. Attaching to GPIProxy. GPIProxy is version 3.2.77.0" and just sits there; no data is written to my hard drive. I've already told WinDVD to decode 24-bit 96KHZ audio. What am I doing wrong? Actually, I can't evn get WinDVD to play the DVD-Audio part at *all*; even when I point at the right DVD I'm pretty sure it's just playing the DVD-video content rather than the audio. Also, to make sure I understand this right--if I decrypt the .aob files with DVDARipper, then extract the .MLP with DVDA Explorer, I can use Creative's player to play hte .MLPs and not have to deal with PPCRipper? Is there any other software player that can decode .MLP?
j7n
QUOTE
Is there any other software player that can decode .MLP?

There is a (very expensive) commercial application for DVD-A authoring called "DiscWelder Chrome". It will decode MLP files to PCM Wav.
OmniCbex
The REM Greatest Hitts DVD-A ripped fine, but a Foo Fighters DVD-A has a spash screen that blocks me.
Funkdude
There is a (probably equally expensive) proffessional app called Surcode MLP that can also sort of decode MLPs (through a workaround).

Workaround: You first have to have a set of dummy wavs, one for each channel the mlp you want to decode has. The trick is to set the options so that the app, after an encode, does a test decode, which makes it writes was to disk. You first encode your dummies, then before you hit "ok" for the decode/test process to start, you swap the dummy mlp you just produced with the one you want to decode. Hit ok, temporary wavs will be produced and the app will report a failed test (duh). Before you hit "ok", copy those wavs and there you have it, a decoded MLP track.

I've generally had good luck with this method. I can't say too much here (see TOS 9), but surcode is definitely available through a torrent of bits. wink.gif
OmniCbex
QUOTE (krabapple @ Feb 22 2007, 23:51) *
I note too that WinDVD seems to be cutting me off at 30 secs of play on various discs...not a good sign. Luckily it seems not to apply to ripping the AOBs from disc and .wavs from ISO images...

It's probably because of watermarking. make sure to use the 'w' switch.
TheChipstar
Hey. Ive been using "ImToo DVD Audio Ripper". Is this no good for ripping the audio? It seems to work. I rip to WAV then create an ISO image and then run it through EAC to get ~V0 VBR Lame MP3s.
Cheers
wraithdu
QUOTE (TheChipstar @ Mar 9 2007, 04:32) *
Hey. Ive been using "ImToo DVD Audio Ripper". Is this no good for ripping the audio? It seems to work. I rip to WAV then create an ISO image and then run it through EAC to get ~V0 VBR Lame MP3s.
Cheers

This program does not rip DVD-A discs. The website language (or course) is misleading. It simply rips the audio from the dvd-video tracks. So your copies are of the soundtrack to the video. Still, they're going to be very good quality, but not DVD-A.
legg
This is probably a dumb question, but how come there's no open-source MLP decoder/encoder?

Anyone want to clue me in?
krabapple
QUOTE (legg @ Mar 9 2007, 11:43) *
This is probably a dumb question, but how come there's no open-source MLP decoder/encoder?

Anyone want to clue me in?



Meridian Lossless Packaging (MLP) is a licensed, proprietary process...and I can't imagine an open-source encoder/decoder would be something Meridian would look kindly on. But given the failure in the marketplace of DVD-Audio, maybe they should.
randal1013
QUOTE (Funkdude @ Mar 8 2007, 23:08) *
There is a (probably equally expensive) proffessional app called Surcode MLP that can also sort of decode MLPs (through a workaround).

Workaround: You first have to have a set of dummy wavs, one for each channel the mlp you want to decode has. The trick is to set the options so that the app, after an encode, does a test decode, which makes it writes was to disk. You first encode your dummies, then before you hit "ok" for the decode/test process to start, you swap the dummy mlp you just produced with the one you want to decode. Hit ok, temporary wavs will be produced and the app will report a failed test (duh). Before you hit "ok", copy those wavs and there you have it, a decoded MLP track.

I've generally had good luck with this method. I can't say too much here (see TOS 9), but surcode is definitely available through a torrent of bits. wink.gif

i've tried this method and it doesn't work for me. when i try to replace the dummy MLP before decoding, i get an error that basically says i can't overwrite the file because it's in use. i've been able to remove the dummy file from the folder, but when i try to put the real MLP file in the folder and hit 'ok', surcode doesn't decode it.
BradPDX
Geez, this discussion went all over the map....

I have grabbed several songs from DVDs that I wanted to have separately, and I did it the rather easy and obvious way.

Play the DVD and capture the desired audio stream in real time using a utility like TotalRecorder (Win) or Audio Hijack (Mac, and much better than Total Recorder). Granted, it isn't really "ripping" per se, but the files can be saved in uncompressed or compressed formats as you see fit. You may then edit the audio into tracks or whatever is required.

Easy, it just takes a bit of time and so I don't do it very often.
BradPDX
QUOTE (BradPDX @ Mar 9 2007, 11:57) *
Easy, it just takes a bit of time and so I don't do it very often.


The last one I did was to capture the ridiculous theme song from "The Blob" (1960) because my kids thought it was hysterical. They are correct.
TheChipstar
So, are these tools still available for download somehwere? Or are they long gone?
Funkdude
QUOTE (randal1013 @ Mar 9 2007, 13:11) *
QUOTE (Funkdude @ Mar 8 2007, 23:08) *

There is a (probably equally expensive) proffessional app called Surcode MLP that can also sort of decode MLPs (through a workaround).

Workaround: You first have to have a set of dummy wavs, one for each channel the mlp you want to decode has. The trick is to set the options so that the app, after an encode, does a test decode, which makes it writes was to disk. You first encode your dummies, then before you hit "ok" for the decode/test process to start, you swap the dummy mlp you just produced with the one you want to decode. Hit ok, temporary wavs will be produced and the app will report a failed test (duh). Before you hit "ok", copy those wavs and there you have it, a decoded MLP track.

I've generally had good luck with this method. I can't say too much here (see TOS 9), but surcode is definitely available through a torrent of bits. wink.gif

i've tried this method and it doesn't work for me. when i try to replace the dummy MLP before decoding, i get an error that basically says i can't overwrite the file because it's in use. i've been able to remove the dummy file from the folder, but when i try to put the real MLP file in the folder and hit 'ok', surcode doesn't decode it.


Are you sure your dummy and real file have exactly the same name?
randal1013
QUOTE (Funkdude @ Mar 21 2007, 19:44) *
Are you sure your dummy and real file have exactly the same name?
of course.
dawsoo2222
http://audiopraise.com/vanity/overview.php

Nice extension module biggrin.gif
krabapple
this dingus appears to allow 'certain' players to digitally pass high-rez PCM and transcode DSD to same. So basically they're asking $600 for a subset of functions performed by a $160 Oppo 970HD DVD-player via its HDMI output. Bravo!

laugh.gif
TheChipstar
QUOTE (TheChipstar @ Mar 22 2007, 11:37) *
So, are these tools still available for download somehwere? Or are they long gone?
Funkdude
QUOTE (randal1013 @ Mar 21 2007, 19:52) *
QUOTE (Funkdude @ Mar 21 2007, 19:44) *
Are you sure your dummy and real file have exactly the same name?
of course.


Here's a the full text of a the pertinent (in your case) part of the guide I used to successfully rip one (1) unencrypted, multichannel DVD-A disc.

CODE

III. DECODE MLP FILES (if necessary)
SurCode MLP is a simple program that takes several mono .wav files as input (2 for stereo and 6 for multichannel, i.e. one .wav file for each channel) and encodes them inte a single .mlp file. You may be wondering; why do I need to use an encoder when I am trying to decode files? Until someone cracks a dedicated decoder, a workaround needs to be used.

While this software is meant to encode files, it features a verification step that can decode an .mlp file immediately after it is encoded in order to check for errors in the encoding process. Normally, it shouldn�t allow the decoding of arbitrary .mlp files, but luckily it doesn�t check that the .mlp file that it is verifying is actually the one it just encoded. The trick is to encode a set of dummy .wav files, thus producing a garbage .mlp file, and then substituting the garbage file with the .mlp file you wish to decode. The substitution must be performed just after the garbage .mlp file has been encoded and right before it is verified. Fortunately, a status window pops up after the encoding process, providing an opportunity to swap the files.

First of all, you need to make sure you have two separate drives (e.g. C: and D:). This is necessary to get around the problem of having to overwrite a locked file. Next, launch the SurCode MLP encoder and make sure the software is properly configured:

1. From the Options menu, click Encoder Options.
2. Uncheck Downmix and ReBit ™ Bit-Depth Reduction and check Verify after encoding is complete, Write decoded wave files while verifying, and Play back individual channels. Then click Ok.

IPB Image



In the main window, prepare to encode the garbage .mlp file:

1. Set the destination file path by clicking the Destination button and choosing a directory on your other drive (e.g. D:\temp). For the sake of simplicity, choose a short filename since this is the garbage .mlp file you will be replacing (e.g. foo.mlp so the destination file path is D:\temp\foo.mlp).
2. Set the Channel Assignment drop-down to a value matching the content of your audio. If your audio is stereo, select (Group 1) L, R. If it is multichannel, select (Group 1) Lf, Rf, Ls, Rs / (Group 2) C, Lfe.
3. Select the dummy mono .wav files by using the following buttons: Left Front to select Lf.wav, Right Front to select Rf.wav, and if your audio content is multichannel, Center to select C.wav, SubBass LFE to select LFE.wav, Left Surround to select Ls.wav, and Right Surround to select Rs.wav.
4. In the Playback frame in the bottom right corner, set the radio button to Verify/Play: Destination.
5. In the Encode frame in the bottom left corner, make sure the start field is reset to zero (00:00:00.00) by pressing the R button to the right of the field. This field will need to be reset to zero after each encoding is performed.

IPB Image

6. Start encoding the garbage .mlp file by clicking the Encode button. A few seconds later, a status window will pop up saying that everything encoded fine. DO NOT CLOSE THIS WINDOW YET. The application is now waiting for you to click Cancel to begin the verification process. While this pop up window is still open, you need to substitute the newly encoded garbage .mlp file with one of the .mlp files extracted from your disc in step (II).
7. Open the directory where the extracted .mlp files reside (e.g. C:\extracted). Select the .mlp file you wish to decode and rename it to foo.mlp (or whatever name you gave the garbage .mlp file). Copy the file by selecting it and then pressing Ctrl+C.
8. Open the directory where the garbage .mlp file resides (e.g. D:\temp). Delete that file by selecting it and then pressing Shift+Del.
9. Paste the file you copied by pressing Ctrl+V. Your extracted .mlp file has now replaced the garbage .mlp file you just encoded.
10. Close the SurCode pop up window by pressing the Cancel button. The encoder will now begin the verification process where it decodes the substituted .mlp file into 1 or 3 stereo .wav files (1 if the content is stereo, 3 if the content is multichannel).
11. When the verification is complete, another window will pop up with the verification status. Pay no attention to whether it reports that the verification step failed or succeeded as the .wav files are decoded fine in either case. Most likely it will report that the verification failed.
12. Close the status window before working with the newly decoded .wav files, since they are released only once you have done that. The decoded .wav files are now located in the same destination directory where the garbage .mlp file is located (e.g. D:\temp).


If your audio content is stereo, the .wav file is ready to be encoded with the lossless codec of your choice, skip to step (V). If your audio content is multichannel, you will have three stereo .wav files containing the Left & Right front, Center & LFE, and Left & Right surround channels, continue on to step (IV-A).


IV. PROCESS MULTICHANNEL .wav FILES
Depending on the type of track you extracted, MLP or LPCM, you will need to following section (A) or section (B), respectively:

A) Decoded MLP Track
In the case of multichannel content, you need to merge the 3 stereo files into one single 6-channel .wav file. For this, you will need to launch WaveWizard and configure it properly by choosing the Edit menu and selecting Preferences:

1. Set the Output directory, any place will do (e.g. D:\temp).
2. In the General settings frame, check Stream manipulation and set it to Merge files. Make sure that all other setting that might affect the audio are disabled: Channel mapping, Sample conversion, Sound level control, and Dithering.

IPB Image

3. In the main window, make sure the list of files is empty and then add the three stereo files by clicking the Add button, adding them in the following order: surcode_lfrf.wav, surcode_clfe.wav, surcode_lsrs.wav.
4. Click the Convert button.

IPB Image


I'd like to bring your attention to step 2 in the first part, where you have to chose the channel mode. Open DVD-A Explorer and look at your track's properties. You should see somewhere "Group 1 Channel Assignment" and "Group 2 Channel Assignment". Make sure the settings in SurCode matches what DVD-A Explorer shows about your track.

Also, in DVD-A Explorer, take a look at the fist track's channel info. Now take a look at the following tracks'. Does only the first track have channel info? That is because it is the only way to create gapless playback on a DVD-A (from what I can understand). If your disc is this way, then you'll have to merge all your MLPs together before decoding (under windows, copy /b track1.mlp+track2.mlp+track3.mlp+... should do the trick (it did for me)). Once that is done, decode your big merged MLP, merge the wavs with correct channel order and then you can proceed to split the wav in separate tracks, if you chose to. Sadly, I have not found any accurate way to do this. DVD-A explorer only reports track lengths to the nearest second. If you have an exact CD copy, then you could try getting a CUE from the CD and applying it to your DVD-A wav rip. Personally, I did it by ear since the CD I had didn't have the same timing.

Have fun wink.gif

QUOTE (TheChipstar @ Mar 22 2007, 05:22) *
QUOTE (TheChipstar @ Mar 22 2007, 11:37) *

So, are these tools still available for download somehwere? Or are they long gone?



PM me. (TOS9)
gabeg
QUOTE (j7n @ Mar 8 2007, 21:22) *
QUOTE
Is there any other software player that can decode .MLP?

There is a (very expensive) commercial application for DVD-A authoring called "DiscWelder Chrome". It will decode MLP files to PCM Wav.



Will this software allow straight playback of mlp discs to a 24/192 capable soundcards? Does it have a software based player?

Thanks,

gabe
Borisz
Discwelder Chrome is quite unrealible. I'd recommend Surcode MLP instead. (Discwelder often cuts off the end of some files, especially noticable with tracks that flow into eachother - this happens less often in Surcode)

gabeg: Once you have a 24bit 192khz decoded pcm file, even sndrec32 can play it as long as your soundcard supports that resolution.
ItsMyLife
I have a few things I'd like to extract from a DVD-A disc, if anyone can help me locate this software I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!
JSmith
After lots of trial and error here are the best methods I came up with for ripping DVD-As:

Note: I do not have an Audigy sound card, so my main goal was getting full quality DVDAs to play on my computer.

TO PRODUCE A DVD-A COPY
1) Run DVDARipper (I had to use WinDVD5 seems some versions of WINDVD7 dont work well)
If you have trouble finding a version of WinDVD that works just google for "WINDVD5.exe"

2) Run DVDAExplorer and open any one of the IFOs created in step 1
I found it was unnecessary to first burn the decrypted files to a DVDA (using GEAR or whatever) like others have suggested.

3) Extract all tracks in desired format (surround or stereo) - does not matter if they are MLP or WAV

4) Use DiscWelder. Drag the track file(s) into the project and either burn to DVD or save as an image.
The image produced will not have an ISO extension but in reality that's what it is. You can mount this image with DaemonTools for playback on your PC.

Observations:
I found that I could NOT just use GEAR Pro to burn the decrypted files from step 1. When I did this the resulting disk would not play.

I found that PowerDVD would not play the original DVDAs but it gladly played the unencrypted disks produced by this method. Moreover it even played the ripped DVDAs at full quality (no frequency cut off).

Finally for watermarked DVDAs the ripped copy would NOT play in a standalone DVD-Audio player but it played just fine in PowerDVD.

TO PRODUCE WAV/FLAC/etc FILES FROM DVDA (for listening on your computer)
Do steps 1-3 exactly as above.

4) If the extracted files are in wav format then you are set... just use WaveLab or your favorite wav editor to combine/convert them.

If some/all of the extracted files are in MLP format then we need to decode them first. Here you can use the SurCode MLP workaround like Funkdude suggests. That works to produce 3 wav file (front left & right, rear left & right, center & LFE) which you can then combine/convert in WaveLab.

That being said, I found the Surcode workaround fairly clumsy and I am working on creating an MLP decoder. The Surcode app is really simple so figuring out the MLP decoding from that does not appear too hard.... hopefully : )

--JSmith
randal1013
QUOTE (Funkdude @ Mar 22 2007, 23:22) *
Here's a the full text of a the pertinent (in your case) part of the guide I used to successfully rip one (1) unencrypted, multichannel DVD-A disc.

CODE

III. DECODE MLP FILES (if necessary)
SurCode MLP is a simple program that takes several mono .wav files as input (2 for stereo and 6 for multichannel, i.e. one .wav file for each channel) and encodes them inte a single .mlp file. You may be wondering; why do I need to use an encoder when I am trying to decode files? Until someone cracks a dedicated decoder, a workaround needs to be used.

While this software is meant to encode files, it features a verification step that can decode an .mlp file immediately after it is encoded in order to check for errors in the encoding process. Normally, it shouldn�t allow the decoding of arbitrary .mlp files, but luckily it doesn�t check that the .mlp file that it is verifying is actually the one it just encoded. The trick is to encode a set of dummy .wav files, thus producing a garbage .mlp file, and then substituting the garbage file with the .mlp file you wish to decode. The substitution must be performed just after the garbage .mlp file has been encoded and right before it is verified. Fortunately, a status window pops up after the encoding process, providing an opportunity to swap the files.

First of all, you need to make sure you have two separate drives (e.g. C: and D:). This is necessary to get around the problem of having to overwrite a locked file. Next, launch the SurCode MLP encoder and make sure the software is properly configured:

1. From the Options menu, click Encoder Options.
2. Uncheck Downmix and ReBit ™ Bit-Depth Reduction and check Verify after encoding is complete, Write decoded wave files while verifying, and Play back individual channels. Then click Ok.

IPB Image



In the main window, prepare to encode the garbage .mlp file:

1. Set the destination file path by clicking the Destination button and choosing a directory on your other drive (e.g. D:\temp). For the sake of simplicity, choose a short filename since this is the garbage .mlp file you will be replacing (e.g. foo.mlp so the destination file path is D:\temp\foo.mlp).
2. Set the Channel Assignment drop-down to a value matching the content of your audio. If your audio is stereo, select (Group 1) L, R. If it is multichannel, select (Group 1) Lf, Rf, Ls, Rs / (Group 2) C, Lfe.
3. Select the dummy mono .wav files by using the following buttons: Left Front to select Lf.wav, Right Front to select Rf.wav, and if your audio content is multichannel, Center to select C.wav, SubBass LFE to select LFE.wav, Left Surround to select Ls.wav, and Right Surround to select Rs.wav.
4. In the Playback frame in the bottom right corner, set the radio button to Verify/Play: Destination.
5. In the Encode frame in the bottom left corner, make sure the start field is reset to zero (00:00:00.00) by pressing the R button to the right of the field. This field will need to be reset to zero after each encoding is performed.

IPB Image

6. Start encoding the garbage .mlp file by clicking the Encode button. A few seconds later, a status window will pop up saying that everything encoded fine. DO NOT CLOSE THIS WINDOW YET. The application is now waiting for you to click Cancel to begin the verification process. While this pop up window is still open, you need to substitute the newly encoded garbage .mlp file with one of the .mlp files extracted from your disc in step (II).
7. Open the directory where the extracted .mlp files reside (e.g. C:\extracted). Select the .mlp file you wish to decode and rename it to foo.mlp (or whatever name you gave the garbage .mlp file). Copy the file by selecting it and then pressing Ctrl+C.
8. Open the directory where the garbage .mlp file resides (e.g. D:\temp). Delete that file by selecting it and then pressing Shift+Del.
9. Paste the file you copied by pressing Ctrl+V. Your extracted .mlp file has now replaced the garbage .mlp file you just encoded.
10. Close the SurCode pop up window by pressing the Cancel button. The encoder will now begin the verification process where it decodes the substituted .mlp file into 1 or 3 stereo .wav files (1 if the content is stereo, 3 if the content is multichannel).
11. When the verification is complete, another window will pop up with the verification status. Pay no attention to whether it reports that the verification step failed or succeeded as the .wav files are decoded fine in either case. Most likely it will report that the verification failed.
12. Close the status window before working with the newly decoded .wav files, since they are released only once you have done that. The decoded .wav files are now located in the same destination directory where the garbage .mlp file is located (e.g. D:\temp).


If your audio content is stereo, the .wav file is ready to be encoded with the lossless codec of your choice, skip to step (V). If your audio content is multichannel, you will have three stereo .wav files containing the Left & Right front, Center & LFE, and Left & Right surround channels, continue on to step (IV-A).


IV. PROCESS MULTICHANNEL .wav FILES
Depending on the type of track you extracted, MLP or LPCM, you will need to following section (A) or section (B), respectively:

A) Decoded MLP Track
In the case of multichannel content, you need to merge the 3 stereo files into one single 6-channel .wav file. For this, you will need to launch WaveWizard and configure it properly by choosing the Edit menu and selecting Preferences:

1. Set the Output directory, any place will do (e.g. D:\temp).
2. In the General settings frame, check Stream manipulation and set it to Merge files. Make sure that all other setting that might affect the audio are disabled: Channel mapping, Sample conversion, Sound level control, and Dithering.

IPB Image

3. In the main window, make sure the list of files is empty and then add the three stereo files by clicking the Add button, adding them in the following order: surcode_lfrf.wav, surcode_clfe.wav, surcode_lsrs.wav.
4. Click the Convert button.

IPB Image


I'd like to bring your attention to step 2 in the first part, where you have to chose the channel mode. Open DVD-A Explorer and look at your track's properties. You should see somewhere "Group 1 Channel Assignment" and "Group 2 Channel Assignment". Make sure the settings in SurCode matches what DVD-A Explorer shows about your track.

Also, in DVD-A Explorer, take a look at the fist track's channel info. Now take a look at the following tracks'. Does only the first track have channel info? That is because it is the only way to create gapless playback on a DVD-A (from what I can understand). If your disc is this way, then you'll have to merge all your MLPs together before decoding (under windows, copy /b track1.mlp+track2.mlp+track3.mlp+... should do the trick (it did for me)). Once that is done, decode your big merged MLP, merge the wavs with correct channel order and then you can proceed to split the wav in separate tracks, if you chose to. Sadly, I have not found any accurate way to do this. DVD-A explorer only reports track lengths to the nearest second. If you have an exact CD copy, then you could try getting a CUE from the CD and applying it to your DVD-A wav rip. Personally, I did it by ear since the CD I had didn't have the same timing.

Have fun wink.gif

i realize this is a late response, but i just now got around to re-ripping my DVDAs. i followed the steps you pasted in the code box and everything worked out well. turns out i hadn't been doing everything i needed to do when i first tried to convert MLP to wav. after reading your post and taking the time to figure it out, i now have DVDA audio on my harddrive and in wavpack. the only downside to converting MLP to wav, and this looks like it's a limitation of my DVDAs, is that i can only capture 16bit versions of the audio tracks, instead of the 24bit versions i had recorded the first time. according to DVDAexplorer, the DVDA seems to have 16bits as the limit for making copies of the MLPs.

but anyway, i can now listen to the downward spiral and with teeth in surround sound! and the best part is, using foobar's 'convert 5.1 to stereo' DSP, i was able to convert the 6ch files to 2ch files while retaining the surround effect, which i then converted to lossy for my ipod.
Spikey
I'm just wondering, is this only relevant to DVD's with surround sound? And is it only relevant to DVD Audio DVD's?
I have DVD movies with AC3 audio and I'm wondering if it's possible to rip the audio without the dialogue (since you can have multiple language audio you would think so). I also have surround sound ones. I have no idea when it comes to ripping DVD audio correctly, so don't be afraid to explain stuff, I'm not going to get all "I'm not a noob!" on you.

- Spike
Wilbert
Let me first say that it is now possible to remove the encryption without having windvd installed! Head over to doom9: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1013597#post1013597

Someone compiled it for me and it seems to work.

QUOTE
That being said, I found the Surcode workaround fairly clumsy and I am working on creating an MLP decoder. The Surcode app is really simple so figuring out the MLP decoding from that does not appear too hard.... hopefully : )

Any updates on the MLP decoder?
TREX6662k6
Interesting progress.

lol
From the last reply at the time of click-age
OT:
QUOTE
It may also be a problem to us audophiles who can, in fact, hear the difference between FLAC and 320kbps MP3. Just because the people who made it can't hear it, doesn't mean nobody can.
ogg
DVDFab, the last standing "free" decrypter just added support for DVD-Audio and CPPM. Take a look: http://www.dvdfab.com/free.htm

QUOTE
3.1.4.5 Beta (Jul 10, 2007)
- New: Added support for CPPM protection, which is used on DVD-Audio disc.
- New: Copy DVD-Audio disc in "Full Disc" and "Clone" modes.
To burn DVD-Audio backup disc, please use "Clone" mode for now.
- New: Copy Non-DVD files, like "JACKET_P" folder.
- New: Added options "Copy DVD-Video", "Copy DVD-Audio" and
"Copy Non-DVD Files" in "Full Disc" mode.


Also does CSS, and ACCS (HD DVD+Blu-Ray Disc). Whee. smile.gif

Now you'll just need to figure out how to read the DVD-Audio structure and decode the MLP stuff, and you'll be set.
frenchglen
QUOTE (ogg @ Jul 11 2007, 12:05) *
DVDFab, the last standing "free" decrypter just added support for DVD-Audio and CPPM. Take a look: http://www.dvdfab.com/free.htm

QUOTE
3.1.4.5 Beta (Jul 10, 2007)
- New: Added support for CPPM protection, which is used on DVD-Audio disc.
- New: Copy DVD-Audio disc in "Full Disc" and "Clone" modes.
To burn DVD-Audio backup disc, please use "Clone" mode for now.
- New: Copy Non-DVD files, like "JACKET_P" folder.
- New: Added options "Copy DVD-Video", "Copy DVD-Audio" and
"Copy Non-DVD Files" in "Full Disc" mode.


Also does CSS, and ACCS (HD DVD+Blu-Ray Disc). Whee. smile.gif

Now you'll just need to figure out how to read the DVD-Audio structure and decode the MLP stuff, and you'll be set.

Wow! Thanks for posting that. Suddenly it's so easy to rip DVD-Audio now!

Well, since finally plunging into hi-res music a couple of months ago after years of knowing how good it was, I've read this developmental thread in tying to back up my DVD-As. Glad to join the forum.

The only thing is, with most discs watermarked, how are you supposed to then properly burn your backups onto new discs to play at a friends' house? (etc... tongue.gif )

- FG
keysersose
QUOTE (ogg @ Jul 11 2007, 13:05) *
DVDFab, the last standing "free" decrypter just added support for DVD-Audio and CPPM. Take a look: http://www.dvdfab.com/free.htm

QUOTE
3.1.4.5 Beta (Jul 10, 2007)
- New: Added support for CPPM protection, which is used on DVD-Audio disc.
- New: Copy DVD-Audio disc in "Full Disc" and "Clone" modes.
To burn DVD-Audio backup disc, please use "Clone" mode for now.
- New: Copy Non-DVD files, like "JACKET_P" folder.
- New: Added options "Copy DVD-Video", "Copy DVD-Audio" and
"Copy Non-DVD Files" in "Full Disc" mode.


Also does CSS, and ACCS (HD DVD+Blu-Ray Disc). Whee. smile.gif

Now you'll just need to figure out how to read the DVD-Audio structure and decode the MLP stuff, and you'll be set.


I have read this thread a few times now and am still not clear if it is possible to backup my watermarked DVD-A's onto a DVD-R so they can be played on a standalone player..

Is this possible?

I tried DVDfab Platinum and it doesn't work with watermaked discs - using Clone mode the discs won't play..if you try Full Mode, the copying stops exactly at the 30 second mark which is where the watermark is..

I really would like a backup because they are quickly going out of print - pretty ironic in that this is the ONLY format that can't be copied and it dies only magnifying the need to make a copy..

Thanks

KS
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