Note: I can't upload the sample in the uploads forum. Whenever I click on the "add this attachement" or "post new topic" buttons I only get an error message: "This document contains no data"... Here is the thread anyway.

If it's smaller than 9Mb, send it to my e-mail. I'll host it for a while at RW.

rjamorim@yahoo.com

E-mail sent. Thanks!

Just found my Creative sampler disc, but am unable to get anything off of it using PPCM Ripper. I can extract the MLP files using the DVDAExplorer program, but as has been noted by others I can't play them. Will keep trying.

Also, I can't trick WinDVD into thinking I have 7.1 surround. I have an Audigy 2. Does anyone know how to do this?

Here we go!

http://www.rarewares.org/rja/Yes-Roundabou..._96kHz_5.1.flac

Thanks skamp.

Downsample

That's so evil...

I still don't understand this bullshit of only allowing Creative card owners to enjoy full quality.

How can you tell? Anyway that really sucks then.

Converted to wav and looked at it in Audition.. very clear lowpass at 24khz

That sounds like a contradictio in terminis

Maybe the sample was originated from 48KHz master... 16/48 or 24/48 shouldn't be too uncommon in recording business, no?

I used DVDAExplorer on my NIN Downward Spiral Dualdisc - it says the tracks are at 48000khz and rips them to my harddisk as MLP files. I cant figure out how to play them back. Dvdaripper wont work, there isnt an MKB file in the AUDIO_TS directory on the DVD. PPCMripper can rip the tracks, they come out as 24bit/48khz though...

Isn't that what you want?

Not quite what I was expecting, I thought that most DVD-As are encoded @ 96khz.

But then why upsample it to 96kHz? Just for marketting?

Downward Spiral DVD-A is 48khz. I believe that's how it was originally recorded. Remember that was a few years back now.

Would you mind posting a screenshot? I've a hard time picturing what you mean (I don't know much about such things).

Besides multichannel, thats most of its marketing

Do you happen to know any of the recording details of the clip you posted? If it's 70s Yes, it must have been analog recording. If it's later than that, it could have been recorded digitally at 48khz.

Rondabout it's a piece from 1972

Mmm-kay, I downloaded the evaluation program and I see the same. So I loaded the stereo mix too (still 24bit/96kHz), and it didn't show the lowpass. So I tried another DVD-A (The Doors - L.A. Woman), and it's even more obvious, the full band is used. So it's just the 5.1 mix on the "Yes - Fragile" DVD-A that has been butchered??

I wish I could upload more samples and screenshots, but I can't access my web space right now (no idea why). The point is, the tools do work fine, they do extract genuine 96kHz audio. I'm still shocked about that Fragile 5.1 mix though

I wouldn't say it's butchered. Maybe they just didn't have enough space on the disc to include all 6 channels of the 5.1 mix in 96khz, so they made it 48.

As you said above,

So the sample rate of the surround mix on the disc is probably 48, it just was output as 96 since you set that option.

If the stereo is fine, then nothing is being downsampled.

How long before some wizard disassembles the windvd codec and decryption code, and comes up with an open-source, self-contained extracting tool ?

I'd say 3-4 months...

Question: PPCMripper says it won't extract multichannel audio, that the disc must be decrypted first. Could anyone describe how to get the multichannel audio from these discs?

It definitely says "Advanced Resolution Multi-Channel Surround Sound (96 kHz/24-bit)" on the back of the DVD case. I want my money back!

you think you'd really notice a audible difference? Doubt it.

Edit: Quote

I wouldn't go there. Why bother with DVD-A in the first place when there is already a multichannel DTS track? Anyway, that's like selling someone a CD-DA when the source is really a 192kbps MP3. Most people wouldn't notice the difference, but how would they feel about it?

It would be more like selling somebody a CD-DA with a FLAC source with a 20khz lowpass

But it is dodgy advertising, nevertheless, even if its placebo.

How come this hasn't been slashdotted yet?

How come some of these programs have had versions dating to late 2004, and they have only seemed to surface now?

OK, my webspace is available again, so I uploaded another sample (The Doors - Love Her Madly - 24bit/96kHz 5.1), as well as a screenshot of the frequency analysis of the ripped song:


That looks much better, doesn't it?

Now we can start authentic DVD-A ABX tests.

I'm actually happy it hasn't been slashdotted. The longer it takes to be announced at big sites, the longer it'll take for me to be legally forced to remove it.



The developer kept VERY low profile. But a friend of him noticed his posts at a russian forum, and gave me the idea of hosting his stuff.

So the Doors sample shows that it is definitely capturing the stream directly?

Hope I'm not talking too much nonsense, but does that frequency analysis actually show that a song from The Doors has greater frequency content between 40-45 kHz than between 10-15kHz? Or is it a problem with either Audacity, the DVD-A authoring or my lack of knowledge on how to correctly read a frequency plot?


Cheers, Joey.

No, that's what it's showing. I'm seeing it too. I would say it's some kind of noise shaping, but such a thing shouldn't be necessary at all with 24 bit audio.

Does anyone else have the Creative DVD-Audio sampler disc? I am still yet to get a single thing off of it. PPCMRipper doesn't give an error, but nothing is output in the specified directory. Using WinDVD 6.0.6.56.

Yup, works fine here with my Audigy 2 and sample disc with WinDVD 6. I ripped the tracks directly using PPCMRipper using the command "PPCMRipper 96000 f:\temp" and each track showed up in the directory as I played through them, it even automatically starts a new file on track change. It's just a bit of a pain since you have to allow WinDVD to play through the entire track normally.

Well obviously I'm doing something wrong, because I get nothing in the output directory. What settings are you using in WinDVD? Where are you putting the PPCMRipper application?

Hoho. Got announced at Doom9's home page.

I guess now Slashdot and the RIAA letter are only a matter of time

Umm, I guess I'm just using the default settings in WinDVD since I haven't changed anything. It shouldn't make any difference where the PPCMRipper app is located, I have it running off of a different drive than the output location. As soon as I run PPCMRipper from the command line WinDVD opens and this text is displayed at the command prompt.



I then select any track and hit play in WinDVD. Immediately this appears at the prompt:



and the file "track-42cb4faa.wav" is created at the target directory.

Upon closing WinDVD this appears at the prompt:



And the nice 6 channel .wav file is ready and waiting for me.

That's no wonder, you made a post about it!

I never see the "Ripping 6-ch PPCM track to file f:\temp\track-42cb4faa.wav [.." line. It says it attaches and detaches the add-on fine.

My brother has the Audigy 2 ZS + creative sampler disc. He's having the same problem. It gets to the point where it says "GPIProxy Version is 6.0.6.42" and when he try's to play a track, nothing is dumped.

I'm not sure what the problem is on his end.

-Joe

So how do I rip Multichannel?

PPCMripper will only rip 2 channel from my DVD-A disc, but DVD-A explorer will copy the mlps to my harddrive in 6 channel format.

How do I rip them out of the mlp format from the harddrive?

I think you must convince WinDVD you have a surround system, in the Audio configuration tab

I can't get it out of two channel mode - probably because WinDVD can't make heads or tails of my Echo Layla? And what exactly is the use of ripping as decrypted MLP files (via DVDAExplorer) when none of these programs can read them?

Those with Audigy 2 problems, did you notice the

in the readme.txt?

Yep, didn't change anything.

Edit: Somehow it got reinstalled, ????
Anyway, removed it and it works, thanks.

I´ve read that the Creative Audigy 4 supports DVD-A up to 192KHz -> so there will be no need to remove the creativeDVD-A driver as adviced, am I right?