Hello!

So finally, after a long time of just reading the Forums, I decided to post two questions that bug me!

When it comes to ripping Audio CD's to WavPack for a lossless CD backup with integrated Cuesheets, I always want to ensure maximum quality and preferably a 1:1 copy of my CD on my disk (not always possible if copy protected).

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Now my 2 questions:

1.
From different Forum-topics concerning EAC I could read, that EAC is a very secure ripping software (and I still am satisfied with the results it gives me). HOWEVER: On discovering that PlexTools Professional has a similar extraction method as EAC (or maybe even the same? ), I got indecisive which program to use.
PlexTools Pro works fine with my Plextor PX-708A and rips CD's faster than EAC and the results are bit-identical.
BUT: Is PlexTools Pro qualified to be called a (top of the class) secure ripping software like EAC? (I just couldn't find any topics concerning this subject. If there are, please redirect me to them.)

2.
While using EAC, it is possible to create Cuesheets of your CD's. With PlexTools, only PlexTools Pro XL supports this (and I'm not willing to buy it at the moment)! SO: If I would rip my CD's with PlexTools Pro and create my Cuesheets with EAC, would the files be compatible (if EAC is configured properly with the correct sampleoffset value)? Or would there be differences? (I just thought, since the ripped audio files are bit-identcal, the Cuesheets have to be too. But I could be wrong!)

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I know, I know! My idea of extracting CD's with Plextools Pro and creating the Cuesheet files with EAC may seem complicated, but it possibly may work best for me, if those two files created from different rippers are compatible. If not, I guess I'd have to stick to EAC or buy PlexTools Pro XL!

I kindly await your (usefull) replies!

- Realityfreak

See e.g. this thread (" Plextools Pro + Premium undetected errors, Extraction is not secure").

Thank you for your quick replie!

So my first question concerning PlexTools' quality has been answered (though only vaguely, because I don't scratch my CD's to death ). So I can say, that PlexTools' only flaw would be it's blind trustyness to the C2 correction? If so, that wouldn't be a reason to distrust it (because of my unscratched or rarely scratched CD's)!

- Realityfreak

I think nobody really knows how secure Plextools in fact is, even with lightly scratched CDs. I don't think there has been any extensive test on this question. The thread above shows there are some problems in some situations, but the same may be true for EAC. And EAC without C2 and with a drive that buffers audio is veeery slooow. I use Plextools mainly for its speed and ease of use and because it has advanced error correction possibilities if used with Plextor drives when I run into a scratched disc. With regard to security, I am not one of the people who fret about offset correction and 100% bit identical rips. If I can't hear a difference to the original, there is no difference for me. Therefore, the fact that Plextools is at best 99.9% secure doesn't bother me too much, but many people here will differ of course

Thanks sTisTi!

Maybe it's time to start a mass "encoding-software quality" test or something like that (may sound crazy, but could be usefull for everyone)! The only problem to such a test would be time, and I don't quite have it at the moment... so let's somebody else picks up this crazy idea!

So... still waiting for my 2nd question to be answered, and I think I'll stick with PlexTools for the moment!

- Realityfreak

The above thread refers to problems someone had with a faulty drive which also couldn't even burn a CD-R without errors.

EAC's double reading method isn't perfect either you know.

With my PX-2410A PlexTools was faster, more precise, & efficient than EAC.

You can test the drives. Do DAE test found on EAC website. I am just doing it. PX-716 looks to be OK as far as error correction is concerned, but pertty lousy when it comes to interpolation. Not much better than my liteon.

Plextools and my Premium did outperform EAC on several occasions with badly damaged discs ... Plextools was repeatedly (!) able to retrieve matching files whereas EAC just slowed down to death. I must admit that I always rip twice with Plextools (using two different drives, Premium and 716A) to ensure that the rip has been correct.

On pristine discs, I use EAC's buffered burst mode with test & copy and a LiteOn DVDRW 1673S ... the rips are fast and EAC offers a lot of neat functions that Plextools don't that make ripping much more comfortable.

Thanks on answering the PlexTools issue!

I think I'll do a DAE test though! Thanks for the tip.

- Realityfreak

EAC can have undetected errors as well.

Right; Pio2001 mentions it in the thread linked above.
I mainly use EAC because of its superior feature set. PTP is called in on CDs where EAC fails, and for CD 1:1 copying.

Another aspect to consider:
EAC is a general tool, (when configured properly) gives the best result without relying much on the drive capabilities.
Plextools on the other hand is only of use with Plextor drives and does use the firmware capabilities of those drives.

So it's a different animal.

on the quality issue neither is absolutely perfect in my experience, but both are very, very, very good. i have 2 plextor CD drives and use Plextools XL ... i just feel better with it.

on the CUE sheet question, i am no expert, but this is my experience ...

befor XL i did exactly as you suggest. DAE with Plextools and CUE sheet generation with EAC. basically, it works. i performed several tests with different CDs (burning and re-ripping and comparing etc.) and all seemd fine.

you just need to make sure that you set up EAC properly for your drive. and you need to make sure your extraction method is the same on both with respect to gaps. assuming you are extracting separate tracks, not whole CDs, and you use "append gap to previous track" in EAC, this corresponds to NOT checking for the pause in Plextools. the extracted tracks will be from index 01 of the first track to index 01 of the next track. and that's what EAC's "append to previous" does, so your CUE will be good.

one word of caution though. if the gap on the CD you are extracting is not 2 seconds (on some older discs it seems to be slightly longer), then the CUE will be only sort of good! basically it will be like the original, but with a 2 second gap on the first track, instead of the slightly longer gap. this is a bit of a pain as it means the CD won't be recognised in FreeDB if you burn it. you can fix it by looking at the gap of the first track in EAC and manually adjusting the CUE sheet accordingly. you just add a PREGAP line with the difference in frames before the index 01 point of the first track.

be careful if you start to use check gap in Plextools as this can cause differences if the gap on the first track is longer than 2 secs - basically, Plex extracts the difference, EAC just ignores it (both for ripping and for CUE).

now i just use XL to do it all. it's easier and i just don't have to think about it basically.

one final point - you can get slight differences in the index 00 points in CUE sheet generation between XL and EAC ... and even between the different A, B, C methods in EAC itself. but it's rare, and the differences are very small.

hope that's clear ... am feeling a bit tired in all the heat that's suddenly hit london ...

later.

h.

Thank you hdarwen for your very detailed explanation on the Cuesheet issue. I'll look into it and create the Cuesheets accordingly to your (previous) experiences (or maybe I'll just buy PTP XL... who knows!).

So now that I think my 2 questions are answered properly, I'll leave it at this and thank you all for your participation and for your answers!

THANKS!

- Realityfreak

Someone made a program that creates CUE sheets from PlexTools Pro CD Info(?) exported files.

Search the forums & you will find it.

hi westgroveg,

I tried to find the software you are mentioning, but with no success...
When you say "the forums" you mean Hydrogenaudio or also other places?

regards,

ET

I meant HA. The thread title was a little cryptic probably why you didn't find it:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ools+CUE+Sheets

Here I go once again...

Lately, I've noticed, that a CD which I tried to rip, gave me a bit-identical result with my Plextor PX-708A and Plextools Pro + EAC. But a 3rd rip with my 2nd drive (NEC DV-5700B) gave me a difference of 12 samples in the same track.
I turned off the C2 error correction in EAC and reripped the same track with my Plextor and did it again in Burst mode... The result is always the same: 12 samples difference.
Doing a Burst mode rip with my 2nd drive is impossible, because the crc's never match, so I can't use the resulting file to compare. It is also impossible to rip a CD with my NEC and Plextools. It won't match one bit.

So here my question:

Which drive is the "correct" one? The more secure one? Or is there an other problem that I just don't know of?

Best regards

- Realityfreak

Dump the NEC ...

The new topic concerning my 2 drives moved here. (It is somewhat a different topic. Sorry for any inconvinience that I may have caused)

- Realityfreak