Hi,
I'm new here. I am trying to build a computer "jukebox" and am confused by the new trend in copy protected CDs. I like what I hear about apple computers (quiet, good operating system, less susceptable to virus's than a PC etc). I am worried that the limited amount of ripping software will reduce my ability to deal with copy protected CDs. Any thoughts or opinions on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Ps I hope I'm following the correct protocol for posting.

Copy-protected CDs can always be ripped on a PC and transferred to the Mac. G5s are *not* quiet tho, they're pretty darned noisy. The best part is the OS X if you get min. 2GB RAM.

If you want to rip CDs probably get a PC b/c of the recovery tools that can kill copy prevention (eg, ISObuster) and you can rip the new DVDaudio too.

the crazy thing is, you can get three 3GHz Dells (with three 19" monitors + three printers) for the price of a modest dual-G5 workstation with no LCD screen. see http://gotapex.com/ for that kind of thing.

The OS has nothing to do with how copy controlled discs are ripped - It's all dependent on the optical drive. No ripper in the world can rip a copy controlled disc if your drive can't handle them.



The G5's are the most silent workstations you can get (well below 30dB on normal use). I have one myself so I should know

[quote=Busemann,Jul 12 2005, 11:36 AM]
The OS has nothing to do with how copy controlled discs are ripped - It's all dependent on the optical drive. No ripper in the world can rip a copy controlled disc if your drive can't handle them.

I don't get it. What does the drive have to do with it. It just reads data, it doesn't interpret it. It's the data thats the problem not the ability to read it.

Copy controlled discs have intentional C2 errors introduced during the printing phase which causes pops and clicks when ripped on most modern drives.

I'm not sure, but years ago apple machines were able to run Windows applications thru emulators (like on linux). So, if EAC will run in such environment (I saw the posts that EAC works on linux in such a way too) you should have no problems with MAC too.
But wait until some mac owner consult you...

Have a look at this thread. It is old but still relevant I think.

The answer depends on what you will use the jukebox for. I think jukebox should only play and modify tags etc. and be very minimal. Ripping could be done on a separate computer.

In any case I believe an Apple computer is not what you're looking for. Since its ripping and playback software is very limited (basically to itunes), and it is too expensive for a simple thing like jukebox. It might serve you well if your archive consists only of formats supported by Apple.

Now that there're quite a lot of Mini-ITX mobo choices with fanless but powerful CPUs (powerful enough for all playback purposes) I think building a nice jukebox should be cheap and straightforward.

Since I own both a WinXP box and a Mac I can speak with some authority. So far every copy protected CD I've come across has ripped on my Mac without using any special software. iTunes has done the job without complaint. I can't say the same for my WinXP computer. Yes, I've eventually been able to rip them all using other software. For the short term I'd consider the Mac as a better choice for ripping CDs and as a jukebox as well. BTW, my dual G5 is more quiet than my Dull.

Two questions remain. Will the relentless misguided greed of the music industry eventually lead to protected CDs that cannot be ripped on a Mac with just iTunes? Probably. Will hackers continue to develop software that can break the copy protection? This is harder to answer. The music cartel will certainly use the DMCA as a hammer on two fronts - persecuting those who write the software and prosecuting those who sell it.

I have noticed there are less and less new releases of copy protected CDs, but could just lucky when looking at new releases.

>The OS has nothing to do with how copy controlled discs are ripped

Except for those CDs which auto-run and install software on a Windows PC to stop ripping of that cd.

The Shift key was a solution, as I remeber


I'm not sure, if iTunes can detect reading errors as EAC and CDP do...

Yes it does. There is an NRZ decoder, then an EFM decoder, then a CIRC decoder (itself composed of many parts). Some protected CDs corrupts the data at the CIRC level, and CD ROM drive usually have weaker CIRC decoders than standalone players.
And the drive interprets the Table Of Contents, which gives the number and the lenght of each track. Copy protected CDs can use fake TOCs in addition to the true one, in order to confuse CD ROM drives. The drive then refuses to read a track that it believes that it doesn't exists.
Standalone CD players only read the first TOC (and thus can't read multisession CD ROMs).

According to Anandtech, 512mb is the sweet spot unless you do VERY heavy multitasking.

As a ripping platform, OS X has no equivalent to EAC. That alone is a huge disadvantage (this coming from someone who only owns Macs). However, my experience is that modern drives do a much better job at ripping audio than in the past, so the software is becoming less important.

Still, if I were to have a computer solely for ripping and playback, it would definitely be a PC. For general usage, however, there is more room for debate.

The only major emulator is Microsoft's VirtualPC which is highly inefficient. It also does not directly interface with the I/O devices, which would mean data could be modified between the application and the drive itself. There's a lot of layers between the drive and the application (Ripping application > XP > VirtualPC > OS X > Drive). You can't run programs individually through VirtualPC, you must emulate the Windows OS as well.

I've tried EAC a few times through VPC and it seems to work like it should. It doesn't go much faster than 2-3X though.



The cdparanoia libraries run on osx, now even through gui apps like xACT. If you need an EAC log to be satisfied, you're left with VPC

The bottom line is that aside from software concerns, the G5 is clearly overkill for his intended use. For a fraction of the price, he can have a PC with true silence and his choice of linux (cdparanoia) or windows (EAC). Not to mention a right mouse button.

Agreed. A Mac mini would be more suitable.

Yeah, cdparanoia works like a charm on Mac OS X. Also, both iTunes and cdparanoia rip non-standard, copy protected discs quite well. However, the error correction in iTunes isn't all that good, so I'd recommend using cdparanoia for very scratched discs.

In general, Macs perform quite well in this area. If you like iTunes, that is, since it pretty much destroyed the competition.

[quote=davidwb,Jul 12 2005, 01:35 PM]
Since I own both a WinXP box and a Mac I can speak with some authority. So far every copy protected CD I've come across has ripped on my Mac without using any special software. iTunes has done the job without complaint. I can't say the same for my WinXP computer. Yes, I've eventually been able to rip them all using other software. For the short term I'd consider the Mac as a better choice for ripping CDs and as a jukebox as well. BTW, my dual G5 is more quiet than my Dull.

Hi David,
I sent you a message but I realized you may not read it so here's my question:
You commented that you have less trouble ripping with your Mac than with your PC. Were you using EAC on the PC?
Gerry

If I'm not mistaken, most of the so-called "copy protected" audio CD these days are little more than enhanced CD's with malware on the data session and an autorun-type of installer to install the malware. The malware prevents ripping from working correctly.

For these discs, ripping them on the Mac or Linux will pose no problems, ripping them in Windows just means turning off AutoRun (or holding down the SHIFT key).



For the more hardcore methods, where intentional errors have been put on the audio data, or they have fake TOC's or what have you, then you'll need a PC to rip the discs. Mac's simply can't do it, the software isn't there and likely the drives wouldn't support it.

However, the number of discs with this sort of "real" protection is few, I think.

My old PowerBook rips such discs from EMI fine while my new G5 does not.

Guess I walked right into that one .

Note that dollar for dollar, a PC built to the Mac mini's price point will probably offer more initial value and it's components will certainly retain value better. However, the Mac mini may very well provide you with more personal value over it's life in your use, if you are "into" the Mac platform. Personally, I find it distasteful and insulting to the end-user, but there are plenty of intelligent Mac users out there that get on quite well despite all the patronizing aspects of the platform.