Hello Peoples,
I've encoded a few albums with mpc -insane and really love the quality and then went to tag em but mpc dosen't support id3v2. . Does anybody know of any alternative ways to tag?
I want to be able to put this is a tag:

TITLE: It's The Way You Make Me Feel (Sleaze Sisters Anthem Edit
ARTIST: Steps
ALBUM: It's The Way You Make Me Feel (Holland CD Single)
YEAR: 2001
GENRE: Top 40

I'm an ex --r3mix user but tagging was fine....
I'd use --dm-preset standard but too slow on my machine (pentium 100, 32mb encode at x0.09)

Anyways Thanks In Advance,
Scott (Burgerings)

I don't know if you like this but I have always continued long title names to the comment field in ID3v1.1. It doesn't help for album name but you can put 59 characters to title. So your example would look like this:

Artist: "Steps"
Title: "It's The Way You Make Me Feel "
Comment: "(Sleaze Sisters Anthem Edit)"
Album: "It's The Way You Make Me Feel"
Year: "2001"
Genre: "Top 40"

Then just put winamp's mpc input plugin to display comment field after title ("%1 - %2%5") and you see long names. Unfortunately this plugin displays text "n.a." for every field that is empty, but this is easy to fix. Use hex editor's search and replace function to replace every occurrence of 6E 2E 61 2E into 00 00 00 00.

You can use id3v2 with mpc!!

No problem.

You can use helium2 to tag with id3v2.



www.helium2.com

Jansemanden,

Sure you can, and Helium2 is great, but I don't know
of any mpc decoder (player) that will accept id3v2 tagged mpc !

I read somewhere that andre buschmann was working on that issue.

Any news on that subject ?

As far as I know the recent winamp plugin DOES support id3v2.
It just doesn't show it.




Jan.

Alright, good news then ! I'll give this new plugin a try.

xtian

Eh, the recent Klemm Winamp-plugins (1.9.0) doesn't support V2-tags. It supports replaygain though.

The Orlsoft plugin does support V2-tags (though you can't read the full V2-info and seeking is prohibited in V2-tagged files), but doesn't support replaygain

hmmmm...........

This is incorrect as far as I know. I'm almost certain on this.
The new plugin did support id3v2.
I can't find the updates list so I can't check.
I don't wanna waste my time finding it sice I'm very certain about this.

It's correct that before the only one that supported id3v2 was Orlsoft's plugin but the new official one does as well.


Jan.

Funny you should say so, because I'm pretty certain too

As far as I know the newest Winamp-plugin is 1.9.0 and that one Shirley doesn't support V2-tags.

I looks like you were right.


was it supported ealier?
I could svere it was.

You were right.
Only way to go is the orlsoft plugin.



Jan.

That is my experience as well; Winamp plug-in version 1.9.0 does give the dreaded "superframe" error with id3v2-equipped files.

There is, however, a plug-in that ignores it (properly?). It's part of the OrlSoft MPeg eXtension package, to be found here.

I have not dared to use this yet myself - I'll await an official statement before taking action. I do hope that something will be done soon (SV8 tagging implemented/id3v2 enabled/id3v2 ignored?) as I'm going to encode my collection of classical music, where id3v1.1 falls short of holding all the information one would want.

Updates anyone?

/ Uosdwis

Well the orl plugin seems to work fine.

And on Wa3 too if you use the wa2 input-plugin wac for wa3.

But god damn it - no plugin to show it yet!


Jan.

im not sure where i read it... i think the phorum from my site... but andree said he was going to make a plugin that ignores id3v2 data because he really doesnt like the way of id3 tagging.

basicaly this wouldnt read the tags, but it would still play files that had id3v2 tags instead of giving the "super frame" or other errors

Unfortunately, it seems like future plug-ins may not support ID3v2, (see Frank Klemm's FAQ, Q41-Q44).
I believe there should be some support for ID3v2, such as ID3v2 ignoring, since there are quite a few software packages supporting ID3v2 tagging for mpc (e.g. EAC,Helium,MP Tagger) which could lead to errors when people accidentally add ID3v2 tags, which often happens with EAC.

Hey,
So i think thats weird. Why won't mpc fully support id3v2 in the furture? Or they could come up with something else that allows as much info to be stored. What is the point of id3 ignoring? Mpc should just read it and use it not ignore it....
This no good tagging thing is enough to make me go back to mp3....
Catch Ya,
Scott

I could be mistaken, but I do believe I read Frank Klemm saying he does not favor ID3v2 somewhere. I could be wrong, though.

i cant be 100% sure but i think SV8 has its own tagging system but im not sure

Yes, I think you right. From Frank Klemm's SV8 proposals, I gather he intends to add a customized tagging format.
Unfortunately this will have the disadvantage of not being supported by 3rd party database software such as Helium etc.
:confused:

I think that's stupid if it was different or less fields than id3v2.
It useless if you can put the info you want in there.

And it would be nearly impossible to support by helium2 if it totally different from id3v2 (regarding the fields names).


Jan.



edit: it looks like that the author (or I misunderstood at first) of helium2 has taken another view at this. I think he'll support a new tagging system.

Here's the reply I got from Frank Klemm with regards to an email I sent him about his FAQ and ID3v2:

> Hi Frank,
>
> From your FAQ I see you are not impressed by ID3v2.
>
> I am quite familiar with Id3v2 standard and its implementation
> and there are a couple of statements you made in your FAQ
> which puzzle me.

> >They forgot to align the header size (of ID3v2) to a multiple of
> >4 and much much more
>
> I don't understand why this is an issue. Normal decoding
> software reads the size of the tag in header, skips to the end
> of the tag, and starts playing the audio data. This would only
> be an issue in software or hardware players which do not have
> ID3v2 support, which try to play the tag.
>
1. ID3V2 breaks nearly every file format. Some really crazy men decide to store ID3V2 tags at the beginning of the file. The only exception are MPEG Layer III streams where ID3V2 tags are treated as bad data.

2. MPEGplus files have a signature "MP+" at the beginning. Several hundreds other formats have also typical signatures. This do not work with ID3V2.

3. Currently I'm using MPEGplus on a TMS320C40. There it is not possible to skip 8, 16 or 24 bit. You can only skip multiples of a char (32 bit). Due to the fact that MPEGplus uses little endian 32 bit words the bitorder depends on the ID3V2 tags size.

4. A flexible taging formal should be stored anywhere. At the beginning, at the end, in a separate file, in a secondary stream (if OS/FS supports multiple streams like MAC OS or NTFS).

5. Too difficult. Too inprecise. Why timings in milliseconds instead of samples???


> >If the ID3V2 tag area is huge drop outs between titles can
> >occure.
>
> Again this would only be an issue for software which does not
> read the ID3v2 header and does not skip to start of audio data.
>
Mostly all software to not know ID3V2 tags. If I read the ID3v2 tag definition it sounds like a "Audio only, MP3 only" extention.
The developer had MP3 and only MP3 in mind when they created the ID3V2 definition. On a 100% conform MP2 player only 25% of the files can be played.

If you develop a so big tagging system it should be

- extendatble (this is okay)
- it should be possible for every kind of data (Audio, Images, Video,
Text, )
- it should be compatible with old software


> Maybe you are referring to the streaming process which I am
> not too familiar with, where there could be a dropout if the
> buffer is not large enough to hold the tag.
>
> >Q. But there's a ID3V2 library!
> >A. But it is written in C++ and I want to support all plattforms
> > which only have a C compiler.
>
> The author of the MAD MPEG Audio decoder, Robert Leslie, has
> created an ID3v2 library written in C, and the open source code
> can be found as part of his decoder.
>
> You may think I am a ID3v2 tagging fanatic, but I am quite
> neutral on ID3v2 tagging. My interest lies in allocating
> metadata to a music track for database purposes, no matter
> what the tagging format. Although I don't think it is neccessary
> to add full ID3v2 support to mpc, I think it is important to
> to allow users to add ID3v2 tags with 3rd party software
> without getting errors when playing the file. There are already
> a few software packages which support ID3v2 tagging in mpc
> viz. EAC, Helium and MP Tagger and I think a couple more.
> These software packages were not made for mpc, but support
> was added for mpc - one of the advantages of having a
> standardized tagging format, even if it sucks : )
>
I got ca. 80 complains about damaged files. It sucks if a tagger do not check the file format. It tagged MPC files although this makes the files unreadable.

--
Frank Klemm

It's unreadable because your damn plugin doesn't support id3v2, Frank!!!!!!!
Id3v2 does NOT damage the mpc file.



Regards,
Jan.

An ID3V2 tag is some corrupt goo hanging in front of an MPC file. That makes it damaged.

If you look closely, you will see that no sane developer likes ID3V2. ID3V2 is CRAP. It's bad, incompatible, limited, badly designed, deserves to die and it has no right of existence in any other format besides MP3.

If your ripper is attaching ID3V2 to anything but MP3 files, your ripper is broken. If you instructed it to do so, you are stupid. Complaining to Frank is not going to solve that.

For the record, the situation is no different with Vorbis. If you attach ID3V2 to oggs, our player _is_ going to play them, because it will always do it's best to play _corrupted_ files. But _no other utility_ is going to work on your ogg. An ogg with an ID3V2 tag is not an ogg. It's corrupted garbage.

(End of rant)

--
GCP

Only ogg has an alternative.
Mpc doesn't!! That's insane. Since a plugin exist that does support id3v2 it can't be that difficult to support.

I can't see that saying that id3v2 is stupid is an argument for not supporting it.
There's no alternative so either mpc supports id3v2 or it's useless.
ppl need to tag!!

Anyway I couldn't care less since I have a solution but many don't and therefore they can't use f****** mpc.


Jan.

I couldn't care less about tagging my files. And you people need to calm down.

http://www.r3mix.net/noid3.htm



ID3V2=Terrible

Can't wait for MPC's SV8 custom tagging format, hopefully something like Vorbis' tagging.

yea hopefully SV8 will bring a revolution in tagging as the original mp+ brought a revolution in quality

http://www.r3mix.net/noid3.htm = totally bs

read my comments about that site here:

http://66.96.216.160/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board...472821&start=13





I didn't know that sv8 would have a new tagging system and Frank didn't tell me about that when I mailed him about id3v2 support but if it's true it would definitely be great.
But until then there's no alternative to id3v2.



Jan.

BS ? you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.
id3v2 is total mess, it is virtually impossible to fully support it in one program; also, whenever they make "new standard", all id3 software needs to be updated to be able to read their new fields (just because someone was too stupid to let people store any amount of fields with full field names, like in Vorbis).

another fun part - different character encodings: now what the hell is that for ? UTF-8 alone would do the job; why bother making it possible to use other encodings ? they're just asking for compatibility problems (eg. files tagged with winxp crap played under Winamp).

IMO creators of ID3v2 are a bunch of hex editor fanatics; they have no clue about real world.

The point is that is doesn't matter how extremly fucked up id3v2 is. There's no alternative.

And about it being impossible to support: All I'm asking is to ignore the freaking thing so porgram that DO support it can be used.

helium2 for tagging
EAR for viewing them in winamp

Anyway I couldn't care less now since as I said I have a solution for still being able to play mpc files and have the info shown in winamp.
And later tonight everybody will too.



Jan.

The original proposal for the SV8 tagging didn't look to exciting, but it looks like Frank is adopting a more flexible approach towards tagging now, so we shall see what he comes up with.

What would be revolutionary to tagging is if metadata can be collected during the encoding process and stored in the tag and used to "fingerprint" the song, as well as use this metadata in useful database searches.

The metadata I'm referring to are measurable variables such as Average & sd of BPM, Average & sd of loudness at different frequencies. This data can help in classifying music according to genre without being subjective, which would be really useful in databases used jukebox and sharing purposes.

Anyway, just my 2 offtopic cents.

I only hope that my favorite software ID3kill will work with those tagged MPC files too.

There'll be no tags in the mpc itself

wait and see.



Jan.

you're right :-)

i know sth. about it.

but it doesn't change the fact, that it's only an alternative way of tagging.

i wish mpc was free for all to develop...

hi Adam!
-----

It's the only way to tag mpc files if you want them to be playable!!



Jan.

Hey Case, thanks for that hex edit. That does exactly what I need. ID3v2? I ain't missing it now.

Hear hear!! I think there should be a universal method to tag audio files, that way we get rid of any incompatibilities that exist right now. If there were to be a standard my vote would be the Ogg system of tags. ID3v2 tags dumps you pretty hard, believe me I know I lost a couple of my MP3's when I ran a MP3 manager through them (I believe someone else on this forum ran into that trouble).

Well that just my opinion take it as it is or add something useful as I would like to hear some of your thoughts.

Cheers
AgentMil

The point of the external tag idea was also to avoid some of the incompability problems.