Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: read on hi-fi.org
Hydrogenaudio Forums > CD-R and Audio Hardware > Audio Hardware
Shade[ST]
Hello...

I was looking to build myself a headphone amplifyer for my headphones, and thought that a good source to look would be www.head-fi.org, so I started reading up topics in the DIY section, and fell onto this:
QUOTE
I long ago read all kinds of articles/ads/interviews on high-end cable construction. One of the things often referred to was "skin effect" -- the basic idea was that the current flow in the wire tended to occur mostly on the "skin" (outside edge) of the wire rather than the core.
[...]
it would explain a lot about why different platings impart different sonic signatures on cables.

Anyhow, the proof is in the listening... I generally agree with the earlier post that there are clearly audible differences between silver and copper wire of the same diameter, and that the silver-plated copper I've tried has been something of a bit of a middle-ground. But I'm sure there are varying qualities of this -- i.e. what is the purity and the thickness of the silver (or the copper for that matter).
[...]
All I know is that different cable materials and construction do indeed offer very different sonic signatures. To my ear, solid core high-purity silver has always been the ultimate in terms of hearing clarity and detail in recordings, but it's not always desirable (for instance when the combination of your recordings, source, amp, and speakers/phones already tend towards a "bright" tonal balance).
Many other articles like this one were posted there, so I just wanted to say,
Thank you HydrogenAudio, for the Terms of service. Especially #8 -- keep us from the charlattans of pseudo-acoustics.
Triza
I agree. When I researched what kind of headphones I am supposed to buy I ended up reading a lot of rubbish statements there. So much that I got dizzy. I really feel that general education in the western world failed miserably.

Anyway. The problem is that unlike HA, they deal with HW and there are not many HW ABX systems around. Still these rules keep HA sane even when we deal with HW, because all these lunatics that shun scientific approach we have here also shun this site as a result.

Triza
Rotareneg
I absolutely agree, HA is very refreshing after having spent too much time at Head-Fi (and Headwize before that.)
HotshotGG
QUOTE
"All I know is that different cable materials and construction do indeed offer very different sonic signatures."


I could make claims like that nearly pulling stuff out of my ass. If I told you could fly would you believe me? biggrin.gif, even if I had no scientific evidence to back up my claims. laugh.gif Yes, thank god for the TOS #8 it's something to live by.
Axon
Strictly in terms of headphone discussions, I think that Head-Fi really is stronger than HA. They may have the occasional odd discussion on "fuzz" and whatnot in the Headphone forum, but audible differences between phones are pretty much beyond debate, and most of the differences can be correlated (albeit not proved) to differences in the objective metrics. That sort of stuff just doesn't exist here.

I think a lot of HA's discussion quality stems as much from the quality of moderation as from the TOS. Head-Fi is so uncontrolled I could easily mistake it for PlanetCrap on some days. A lot of the threads are just a complete waste of time to wade through, even from an audiophile point of view.
Shade[ST]
QUOTE(HotshotGG @ Aug 15 2005, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE
"All I know is that different cable materials and construction do indeed offer very different sonic signatures."


I could make claims like that nearly pulling stuff out of my ass. If I told you could fly would you believe me? biggrin.gif, even if I had no scientific evidence to back up my claims. laugh.gif Yes, thank god for the TOS #8 it's something to live by.

Two words : Lamp cord.
bug80
QUOTE(Shade[ST] @ Aug 15 2005, 07:38 PM)
QUOTE(HotshotGG @ Aug 15 2005, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE
"All I know is that different cable materials and construction do indeed offer very different sonic signatures."


I could make claims like that nearly pulling stuff out of my ass. If I told you could fly would you believe me? biggrin.gif, even if I had no scientific evidence to back up my claims. laugh.gif Yes, thank god for the TOS #8 it's something to live by.

Two words : Lamp cord.
*


Lamp cord has a bad sonic signature, because it is made for "light" electrons, not "audio" ones. I once tried lamp cord, but the effect will be even worse than the skin effect.
dem
QUOTE(bug80 @ Aug 15 2005, 12:54 PM)
Lamp cord has a bad sonic signature, because it is made for "light" electrons, not "audio" ones. I once tried lamp cord, but the effect will be even worse than the skin effect.
*


Correct. That's why I use cords from vacuum cleaners. Everyone knows that vacuum cleaners have high audio output.
Shade[ST]
QUOTE(dem @ Aug 15 2005, 12:16 PM)
QUOTE(bug80 @ Aug 15 2005, 12:54 PM)
Lamp cord has a bad sonic signature, because it is made for "light" electrons, not "audio" ones. I once tried lamp cord, but the effect will be even worse than the skin effect.
*


Correct. That's why I use cords from vacuum cleaners. Everyone knows that vacuum cleaners have high audio output.
*


Plus the soundstage will be much enhanced, and much more airy. For true overkill, braid together 3 vaacum cables : as their name says, they're oxygen-free, and if you have a high quality vaacum cleaner, they'll be silver plated, too. That way, you'll get added capacitance, from the skin effect and light corrosion, making your bass sound much fuller. On top of that, you will not limit your sound bandwidth because the impedance of the cable is very high, and that wan you can increase your input impedance.
Axon
That's enough.
yahknow1
QUOTE(Axon @ Aug 15 2005, 12:03 PM)
That's enough.
*


thank you
Rotareneg
QUOTE(Axon @ Aug 15 2005, 01:03 PM)
That's enough.
*



Yes, stop making fun of cable freaks: the placebo effect is a scientifically proven method for improving the perceived quality of many types of subjective stimuli. biggrin.gif

Nobody is saying different headphones all sound alike of course, there's a obvious difference between my SR-80s and my HD-600s for example.
CSMR
Head-fi people care less about cables than hydrogen audio people care about not caring about cables. So I think the former group is more sane.
Rotareneg
QUOTE(CSMR @ Aug 16 2005, 11:13 AM)
Head-fi people care less about cables than hydrogen audio people care about not caring about cables. So I think the former group is more sane.
*



huh.gif laugh.gif
Defsac
The skin effect is real, although a lot of people misinterpret it. There's an objective analysis here which suggests that any differences caused by skin effect are unlikely to be audiable in any practical situation.
Xenno
Looks like the author fell for the noobish "It's sounds louder so it must be better" argument by virtue of silver being the least resistive metal around (at temperatures above what other metals superconduct at).
DilbyŠ
Skin effect is important at RF, not at AF.
smok3
so, the spoof ad would be:
user posted image
?
Acid8000
Nice. laugh.gif
ultranalog
Made my day. Thanks biggrin.gif
Twombly
I made it my desktop wallpaper. Shame on you for not using png, by the way.
bug80
QUOTE(Twombly @ Aug 21 2005, 03:13 PM)
I made it my desktop wallpaper. Shame on you for not using png, by the way.
*


Why? Can you see the difference between png and jpg? Post ABX results please.

tongue.gif
HbG
QUOTE(bug80 @ Aug 21 2005, 05:45 AM)
QUOTE(Twombly @ Aug 21 2005, 03:13 PM)
I made it my desktop wallpaper. Shame on you for not using png, by the way.
*


Why? Can you see the difference between png and jpg? Post ABX results please.

tongue.gif
*



PNG is lossless, he wants to encode his own jpeg from it. smile.gif


as for ABX'ing: http://www2.b3ta.com/spot-the-giference/

10/16 for me. Gif and png-8 don't differ except for filesize.
Benjamin Lebsanft
14/16, it's quite easy on my tft and I didn't concentrate much.
[JAZ]
15/16 happy.gif , i failed the last one. One can see artifacts in both, the jpeg's (diffuminated) and the gif's ( dots).
smok3
got 13/16, oh well they tricked me.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.