Hydrogenaudio Forums > A dedicated CUE Sheet

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intas2001

Aug 23 2005, 06:27

Hi,

I found the following CUE sheet - and it makes me wonder:

CODE

REM GENRE Rock
REM DATE 2005
REM DISCID C60D320E
REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v0.95b2"
PERFORMER "The Killers"
TITLE "Hot Fuss"
FILE "01 - Jenny Was a Friend of Mine.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Jenny Was a Friend of Mine"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "Mr. Brightside"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 00 04:03:70
FILE "02 - Mr. Brightside.wav" WAVE
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "03 - Smile Like You Mean It.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    TITLE "Smile Like You Mean It"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    TITLE "Somebody Told Me"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 00 03:54:08
FILE "04 - Somebody Told Me.wav" WAVE
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "05 - All These Things That I've Done.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    TITLE "All These Things That I've Done"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 06 AUDIO
    TITLE "Andy, You're a Star"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 00 05:01:65
FILE "06 - Andy, You're a Star.wav" WAVE
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "07 - On Top.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 07 AUDIO
    TITLE "On Top"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "08 - Change Your Mind.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 08 AUDIO
    TITLE "Change Your Mind"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "09 - Believe Me Natalie.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 09 AUDIO
    TITLE "Believe Me Natalie"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "10 - Midnight Show.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 10 AUDIO
    TITLE "Midnight Show"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "11 - Everything Will Be Alright.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 11 AUDIO
    TITLE "Everything Will Be Alright"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 12 AUDIO
    TITLE "Glamorous Indie Rock & Roll"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 00 05:44:68
FILE "12 - Glamorous Indie Rock & Roll.wav" WAVE
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 13 AUDIO
    TITLE "The Ballad of Michael Valentine"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 00 04:16:29
FILE "13 - The Ballad of Michael Valentine.wav" WAVE
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 14 AUDIO
    TITLE "Under the Gun"
    PERFORMER "The Killers"
    INDEX 00 03:49:39
FILE "14 - Under the Gun.wav" WAVE
    INDEX 01 00:00:00

a) tried to burn with EAC v0.95 beta 2 (01.06.2005).
Results in:
"Write Error ! <path>\cdrdao.toc:181:START 00:00:08 behind or at track end. "
While performing lead in.
b) win explorer shell context: open cue with nero br 6:
results in nero "image burning" section.
Info tab shows Audio tracks as well as Data Tracks (Mode 2).
Which was surprising to me.
Burn Tab requires "Disc-at-Once" (field inactive).
Results in error that Nero tries to burn in "Track-at-Once"
which is not possible with this drive "SONY DRU 720A".

So what is this thing about at all ?
Is this CUE sheet basically a Mixed Mode Disc or CD-Extra or something else ?
Is it possible to handle it as a CUE Sheet ?
Is this CUE Sheet very advanced or only bullshit ?

Synthetic Soul

Aug 23 2005, 06:37

It is a cuesheet created with EAC's "Multiple WAV Files With Gaps" setting.

It can be burned using EAC's internal burning engine (not CDRDAO) or burrrn.

Edit: This thread (where Sebastian Mares tests EAC with a non-complaint cuesheet) may help some more, and also this wiki entry.

intas2001

Aug 23 2005, 07:19

Thanks Synthetic Soul,

I tested Burrrn 1.14 beta 1.

Loading the CUE Sheet above results in:

ERROR: <drive>:\<path>\Burrrn\burrrn.toc:54: Cannot determine length of track data specification.
ERROR: Start position 10121832 exceeds available data of file "<drive>:/<path>/14 - Under the Gun.wav".
ERROR: <drive>:\<path>\Burrrn\burrrn.toc:58: Cannot determine length of track data specification.

intas2001

Aug 23 2005, 07:39

Hi again,

I disabled CDRDAO in EAC's settings (tab Burn).

Burn results in:
"Write Error: Send CUE Sheet: Invalid field in parameter list"
Which is a previous problem I fixed by using CDRDAO.
Without it, EAC seems not to be compatible with my Sony drive at all.

Synthetic Soul

Aug 23 2005, 07:39

Hmm... I'm afraid I can't help with this.

To me, the cuesheet looks like a standard non-standard EAC cuesheet, and I thought burrrn could handle them.

From the error it looks like burrrn is getting confused ("Start position 10121832"), but I don't know.

Hopefully the author, Gambit, will spot this and be able to identify what the issue is.

Have you tried burning from EAC with the internal burning engine? (uncheck "Use CDRDAO for writing in the EAC layout editor" on the EAC Options > Write tab). Edit: Ah, posting at the same time. Looks like you need a burrrn expert or Gambit, the burrrn master...

Synthetic Soul

Aug 23 2005, 07:48

I would like to see a resolve to this conundrum, but as a last resort I guess you can just burn the WAVEs normally, without the cuesheet.

You would just lose the INDEX 0 information, but that is no major deal, unless you are really concerned about getting an exact copy. Your WAVE files have all the audio data, so the audio data would still be exactly the same.

If you do resort to this, just make sure that you don't set the two second gap between tracks (as it is already in the WAVE files).

Snowtiger

Aug 23 2005, 08:28

I wonder, is this thread in Digitall Inn
http://www.digital-inn.de/showthread.php?p=102933#post102933
about the same problem ??

I sent a mail to Andre W. conserning this problem but nothing has come up yet.

Grtz:snow.

Cosmo

Aug 23 2005, 13:13

My first guess would be that one (or more) track length doesn't match up between the cue sheet and the files.

QUOTE

I found the following CUE sheet ...

Not very surprising that it doesn't work then. If this cue sheet was not generated specifically for the ripped tracks that you have, then there is little or no point in trying to use it. The only practical reason you'd really need to use such a cue sheet for is if you wanted to replicate the "gaps" (or "INDEX 0 information" as Synthetic Soul put it) exactly as they were on the original disc. (well, that, and to store the cd-text info....)

Even if the disc had burned without errors the resulting disc still could have turned out wrong, since the cue sheet and files might not be an exact match...

intas2001

Aug 23 2005, 13:14

Hi Synthetic Soul,

--> I guess you can just burn the WAVEs normally, without the cuesheet.

Yes, I did it. The conventional way always works.
But what the hack do people create creative CUE sheets and distribute them around that only Hyper-CUE-Geeks can process. Is this support or vanity ?

By the way - I found a second CUE sheet exactly the same style. I guess it becomes modern.

In general I wish an exact copy with respect to audio quality and losslessity. But an exact copy that has identical index structure - for what ?

intas2001

Aug 23 2005, 13:24

Thanks Cosmo,

some person released a "release set" to the world to enjoy all the peers. That's fine in general.
This release set folder structure contains the flacs and the CUE sheet for .wav. So I assume that the CUE is exactly built for those flacs. For what else ?

Could it happen that the decode flac --> wav makes a cause for that error ?

Synthetic Soul

Aug 23 2005, 13:27

Using these non-standard cuesheets you can rip to track files while maintaining all index information without annoying gaps before a track.

In truth though, once you have the track files, there is no major reason why you can't just do as you did - unless you want to be 100% exact (or as close as you can anyway).

Out of curiosity, following Cosmo's question, are the WAVE files tracks from Hot Fuss, as the cuesheet points to?

Edit: Ah, looks like you just answered.

Very good album by the way. I can't believe they are from Las Vegas - they seem so British to me (just the humour and language used - e.g. lines like: "Save some face, you know you've only got one").

intas2001

Aug 23 2005, 14:19

Hi SynSoul,

--> Using these non-standard cuesheets you can rip to track files while ...

Do I understand right ? This CUE sheet is for ripping purposes and not for burning purposes ?

--> there is no major reason why you can't just do as you did...

Using CUEs for burning is only for comfort. As alternative I use m3u files based on .wav in Nero BR. They work similar as CUE. m3u files are in the release set too. So I do not have to process file by file.

Cosmo

Aug 23 2005, 14:42

EAC's noncompliant cue sheets are useful and necessary when the tracks have been ripped via the non-standard method of appending the "gaps" to the ends of the (previous) tracks. Since these "gaps" are complete silence most of the time, many people prefer this silence to be at the ends of songs instead of at the beginning.

It's unlikely that the conversion to/from FLAC caused the problem. If the cue sheet and files are indeed from a single source, then I would guess that the problem may stem from an error by the person who did the rip. Such as an incorrect matching of the gap appending method and cue sheet settings in EAC.

If an EAC log file was provided, and if it contains the original pre-gap lengths, by examination of the files you can often come to a fairly certain conclusion whether the "gaps" were in fact appended to previous or next tracks (or left out completely).

You can also root out problems by comparing the exact track lengths against the cue sheet. For example: If I am reading and thinking correctly, the cue sheet is saying that the pre-gap of track 14 was appended to the end of track 13, at 03:49:39. One of the error messages leads me to believe that track 13 may have actually ended before 03:49:39... Hence an invalid start position

FYI - 03:49:39 in cue sheet lingo = 3 minutes, 49 seconds, 39 frames
There are 75 frames per second. The decimal equiv. would be 03:49.52

intas2001

Aug 23 2005, 15:08

Hi Cosmo,

I am not that deep in the technical logs / protocols. But indeed, the log you mentioned was inside the release set. I give it for your inspection if you like.

****************

CODE

EAC extraction logfile from 18. August 2005, 20:53 for CD
The Killers / Hot Fuss

Used drive  : PLEXTOR DVDR   PX-708A   Adapter: 1  ID: 0
Read mode   : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 30
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : Yes

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
                     44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

Other options      : 
    Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
    Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
    Installed external ASPI interface


Track  1
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\01 - Jenny Was a Friend of Mine.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:02.00

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC A09F9AC1
     Copy CRC A09F9AC1
     Copy OK

Track  2
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\02 - Mr. Brightside.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.20

     Peak level 89.4 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 8531641C
     Copy CRC 8531641C
     Copy OK

Track  3
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\03 - Smile Like You Mean It.wav

     Peak level 95.4 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 6EDC8062
     Copy CRC 6EDC8062
     Copy OK

Track  4
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\04 - Somebody Told Me.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.50

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC C1BC6782
     Copy CRC C1BC6782
     Copy OK

Track  5
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\05 - All These Things That I've Done.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC DEF68B07
     Copy CRC DEF68B07
     Copy OK

Track  6
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\06 - Andy, You're a Star.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.05

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC E2A91F3A
     Copy CRC E2A91F3A
     Copy OK

Track  7
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\07 - On Top.wav

     Peak level 96.2 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC BAE59A0D
     Copy CRC BAE59A0D
     Copy OK

Track  8
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\08 - Change Your Mind.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC A9F3FD45
     Copy CRC A9F3FD45
     Copy OK

Track  9
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\09 - Believe Me Natalie.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 8236E399
     Copy CRC 8236E399
     Copy OK

Track 10
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\10 - Midnight Show.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 57ABFE97
     Copy CRC 57ABFE97
     Copy OK

Track 11
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\11 - Everything Will Be Alright.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC CC4EE77F
     Copy CRC CC4EE77F
     Copy OK

Track 12
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\12 - Glamorous Indie Rock & Roll.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.06

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 7319F91C
     Copy CRC 7319F91C
     Copy OK

Track 13
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\13 - The Ballad of Michael Valentine.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.14

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 396E3DA4
     Copy CRC 396E3DA4
     Copy OK

Track 14
     Filename F:\FLAC Music\The Killers - Hot Fuss (Limited Edition) (2005) [FLAC]\14 - Under the Gun.wav

     Pre-gap length  0:00:00.10

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC 71B2B035
     Copy CRC 71B2B035
     Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

JunkieXL

Aug 23 2005, 15:10

You can also use a .cue file as an image file and mount it on a virtual drive. Then it can be played just like the original CD. (as long as the cue is accurate).

You would need Nero or Alcohol 120 (what I use) to do this though.
J

intas2001

Aug 23 2005, 15:19

Thanks JunkieXL

for your hint.
But not my style. I listen using the stereo - not PC.
So I burn CDA.

JunkieXL

Aug 23 2005, 15:34

That's fine...The method I'm talking about is probably best used for backing up your CDs. You can create image+cue files or 1 full wav or encode a CD to any lossless format you like for backing up your CDs. Then just mount the cue file on a virtual drive and it will be the same as if you had placed the original CD in a drive.
It's not the easiest of methods though, but it can be pretty usefull.
J

Cosmo

Aug 23 2005, 15:35

QUOTE(intas2001 @ Aug 23 2005, 04:08 PM)

I am not that deep in the technical logs / protocols. But indeed, the log you mentioned was inside the release set. I give it for your inspection if you like.

Well, I can't actually tell you anything by looking at only the log, without having the physical files to examine. But even so, all of the reported pre-gaps (sans the pre-gap to track 1, which is a standard 2 seconds) are merely fractions of a second, so it might not do much good anyhow.

If you would like to learn a little and have more insight on this subject, I recommend studying the wiki link that Synthetic Soul posted up above, along with this one - http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Gap_settings

I have to run for now.... Good luck!

JunkieXL

Aug 23 2005, 15:40

You could also try to download the cue sheet from one of the several websites that contain a large quantity of them. The ones that I can remember off the top of my head are called cuesheetheaven and spandle.nl (or something like that).
I'm currently at work and don't have the links with me, but I'm sure you can google for them and be able to find what you are looking for.

I only suggest this to compare the cue you have with another and see if there are any differences.
J

Edit: Typos

intas2001

Aug 23 2005, 16:14

Thanks,

but for this one I will renounce for further research.
Pregap analysis is not my favourity subject - to be honest.
As I said - I burnt it the conventional way.
That has to be sufficient for now.

Synthetic Soul

Aug 30 2005, 02:43

Issue fixed in EAC 0.9 beta 3

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