with every p2p file sharing program that is out there, is it possible for your ip address to be found out?

Of course ...
Yep, most certainly possible.
Some people even download files shared by Kazaa from other users (after checking their IP) using download manager programs like FlashGet.
That's a useless thing to do, but such freaks are out there..
If you have a good firewall though (for Windows for example, Kerio Personal Firewall (free)) it won't allow them to find your IP.

well what I was getting at was if it is always possible for the RIAA to be able to figure out your ip address so they can contact your internet provider for sharing.

as can be concluded from what i said, yes unless you have a good firewall that prevents them from finding your ip. (edited: stupid remark..)
ALWAYS use a firewall.

A firewall won't stop anyone from finding your IP, it can only block cirtain ports.

Right now, the RIAA has the IP address of a verizon customer who was sharing 100s of songs on kazaa. They are trying to get a court order that will force verizon to tell them the name of the person who has that IP.

i didnt think it was possible for a firewall to block your ip address.

It can block ports, so they won't be able to access anything other than your shared kazaa files. Hmm meaning open Kazaa ports..
Wait... Oh man i was so wrong i can't believe it.. They can download from you, so they're getting the files directly from you, so they can know your ip... Is there any way that won't enable them to?..

(no proxy crap ...)

Nope... that's why it's called Peer to Peer.

You directly connect to someone else's computer using their ip address.

isn't there some kind of p2p technology in the works that hides your ip?

With the way the internet is set up, that just isn't possible...

Unless you use a proxy server, but that would make the file transfers go really slow.

"Unless you use a proxy server, but that would make the file transfers go really slow."

Unless you know a really fast anonymous proxy server (probability is super low..)

The only way you can prevent your IP address from being exposed would be to use some sort of a redirecting proxy address, probably in a foreign country for best effect, that would appear to be you as far as the service is concerned. This proxy would need to handle the conversation in both directions to prevent your IP address from being exposed.

Alternatively keep in mind that most IP addresses for users, even those on cable modems and ADSL, are dynamically assigned. If you change addresses often it would be difficult to determine who was using a particular address at a particular time. Of course the ISP might be recording the assigned IP address in its billing data, but depending upon their software this might not be possible.

I think this Free Network Project thingy uses encryption to somehow hide *what* exactly you are sharing, so the courts can't get you (in theory at least). In fact, *you* will not even know what your computer is sharing... only that your files are somewhere on the network --- being shared. It doesn't hide your ip though.

http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/twiki/vi...ew/Main/WebHome

OH oh oh hell no...
I tried that some time ago.. twice actually, second time to see what's changed.
Personally, i hate it, can't see a good future for it.
But maybe someone will like it ...

Radical Idea Here

Maybe it's time to give a little. The RIAA has done some pretty bone-headed things, but they have a right to fight for what is theirs.

Copyright is a fragile idea. It's like honesty or ethics. Hard to explain or justify, but a critical piece of the foundation of our society.

"What's in it for me?", you might ask. A civilized society, I believe, is the answer.

John F. Kennedy said in 1961, "Ask not what your country can do for you -- ask what you can do for your country."

Maybe it's time.

[getting down off my old oak soapbox now]

Edit -- never mind (durnit, I miss the delete function of the previous board, or at least I think there was one).

edited: HAha .. GOTCHA anyway..

I see an episode of a cartoon show on TV, then can't wait untill it's aired again.. Waiting waiting waiting and those jerks never air it , or i can never catch it.
So what do i do? I download it using P2P software . Usually the episodes are in VCD format, which means damn *200+* MBs for 20 minutes 320X240 resolution. So i download, convert the video to XviD and audio to Ogg Vorbis or MP3, comes out great. So i have an episode at the same quality of the stupid VCD one at around 62 MB for 20 minutes. Great or what?
Or what if i just feel like watching it again? Click click, bang. Great or what?
Illegal? pfff, give me a break ..
Sure downloading full movies and music is illegal, but P2P progs can be used for much more things. What about pictures?.. And LEGAL movies, clips, and mp3s?

P2P is great, what people choose to do with it may and may not be.

> Sure downloading full movies and music is illegal, but P2P progs can be used for much more things.

A good point, but the fact that a car can be used for legal purposes doesn't protect it if it's used for a robbery.

We can distinguish between the illegal and legal uses.

-I- could say "a car can be used for illegal purposes, but that fact doesn't prevent it from being protected when it's used for legal purposes"...
Twisting things is easy .
We can distinguish between the illegal and legal uses!

Take a knife, cut some bread, make a sandwitch.
Take a knife, kill your wife, get life...
Take a pillow, rest your head on it.
Take a pillow, choke somebody to death with it while s/he's asleep.
Take a PEN, stick it in somebody's eye...

Come on, nearly everything can be used for illegal purposes. Ban knives, ban everything.

> nearly everything can be used for illegal purposes.

So it is left to us to act with good intentions. It is what makes us civilized.

Civilized...
I see no connection between good intensions and civilized ..
Civilizations are not built on good intentions, only some are.
Many companies are certainly not "civilized" if that's the case as you say..
Companies like Microsoft wish to take over the world in all aspects of life, destroy competitors, and thus make more and more money and lower the life quality of it's customers while telling them how great Microsoft is and how excited they'll be when they'll see their new shitty MSN 8 service that will make it possible for people to make "full use of the internet" and shit like that.

Civilizations are built on connections.
Anyway, as i see it, millions upon millions of people are not "civilized" by your definition. The ammount of people sharing copyrighted material is outstanding.
Does that mean we're all Yahoo's?? No...

Sharing illegal MP3's is NOT hurting the RIAA so much at ALL as i see it.
People can keep whining, but the fact is that CD's' prices are sky high still (THEY're the real pirates), didn't the RIAA learn a thing? No, they just don't really care, they're still super successful.
IF THEY WANT LESS "PIRACY" they will lower the prices of CD's by at least half, something which will not hurt them, oh it sure as hell won't. It'll just make them less mega rich, that's all. People who've been downloading only illegal MP3's and copying CD's from their friends only for years will actually start buying CD's man...
They don't give a HOOT.. That's it basically.

Get AOL cable

This of course is a rather primitive, irrational suggestion.


You can't mean that serious, I suppose less than 1% of P2P activity is legal. So, if we want to stay with analogies don't compare it to cars but to guns or any thing which primary use is illegal.


Sometimes we can't, and that's why some very dangerous objects are forbidden (e.g. guns in europe).


And if I can't get this cheaper I'll take it for free...

(Sorry for dragging this discussion further off-topic)

I don't see it as the RIAA getting hurt by P2P sharing.. more the artists who are losing out on valuable CD sales. I do my best at being an artist part time, and have made an album of my own, just have never got round to scouting around for a record label. But if/when I do, I would be seriously pissed off if I made 5 sales, then found my tracks floating round on KaZaA & WinMX. Seriously, I need whatever portion of the money that would come my way, so to lose out on any portion of sales would be enough to make me want to rid the world of P2P!

And to that end I try to be as ethical as I can with my music collection. I do download songs, which in effect makes me a hypocrit :oS But, I download a single track by an artist, one that isn't on an album I would buy, or that just isn't on an album. If their album has a 1/2 or more tracks I like, I'll buy the album. If it doesn't, then I'd download the couple of tracks I like because they're not really losing on a sale, I wouldn't pay £10 (for either 2 singles or the album) just for 2 or 3 tracks :o)

Same goes for software which is another big problem, I am helping develop a mod which is intended to become a stand-alone game one day. If people were downloading it instead of buying it, again I'd be well annoyed...

"You can't mean that serious, I suppose less than 1% of P2P activity is legal. So, if we want to stay with analogies don't compare it to cars but to guns or any thing which primary use is illegal."

Cars' primary use is illegal? Not.
Guns' primary use is illegal? Not, but unfortunately in the hands of criminals it is.
Guns are LEGAL, as long as you LEGALY buy one, have a legal license.
If you're a security guard, what, you use an illegal instrument?? No, you use a LEGAL instrument, which it's primary use is legal.

Knives, pens, pencils, scissors, PAPERS, are legal and can be used for illegal things. Kazaa is illegal?! HOW is it illegal? It does nothing illegal, people can do illegal things with it like they can with almost anything else. PEOPLE are doing illegal things using legal things. Don't blame a great technology (P2P) for people's actions... Only people are to blame. So ban the technology, did you GAIN anything by banning it?? Certainly not.

":blink: And if I can't get this cheaper I'll take it for free..."

You will?.. That's what TOOOONS of people are doing, because they can't get it for cheaper they get it for free. I get it for not so cheap, but i have a financial state that allows me to.
As i said, the RIAA are the real pirates, they're literally stealing money from people, and while i know it i still buy CD's, to support artists! However i feel very angry that the RIAA are stealing money from me and others and thus hurting the artists.
The RIAA is hurting the artists the MOST! Not people who prefer to get it for free than pay too much money for it.

(this is a good discussion, i have nothing against you .. and, regards as some say)

P2P utilities can be used for legal purposes, yes. But nearly every user downloads illegal material, or downloads material illegally. If you (i.e. the government) are unable to seperate these different applications (of this or any other tool, for that matter), your only choices are:
1. accept/tolerate the illegal use
2. forbid the tool entirely, thus disallowing it's formerly legal use as well

The question is: do you prefer a stricter legislation or more illegal actions? A liberal person would tend to option 1, while conservatives are more prone to option 2.
Anyway, it's not your decision (i.e. as an individual), but the government/society's one. Neglecting this and calling yourself Robin Hood is not really appreciated.


(No, my statement was only figural)
That doesn't make it a right.


Again, I can't believe you mean this serious. Noone forces you to buy CDs at high prices, I myself have bought a few CD for about a 1€/$. There are libraries, radios, etc. (The only music prices which are ridiculously high, are charts-pop. Then again, I wouldn't take them for free... )


Neither do I.

filetopia (www.filetopia.com) uses encryption

I simply don't agree. There's no reasonability in banning P2P.
I don't care for definitions such as "liberal" or "conservative".

Primarily used for illegal sharing of copyrighted material. So ban technology? Or maybe make your prices fair? 2nd option i say.

"Anyway, it's not your decision (i.e. as an individual), but the government/society's one. Neglecting this and calling yourself Robin Hood is not really appreciated. "

I don't call myself Robin Hood. I don't steal from the rich. The rich steal from me and you and everybody.
However many people prefer to steal from the rich than being stolen from.
Those people are a *HUGE* part of society, and i'm sure you can see it, and i certainly see it.. It's not just about movies and music. Software, games, books, everything. It's all out there for free illegally, and it's really not so hard to get anything you want.

"That doesn't make it a right."

Yeah.. And what makes it right for record labels to charge ridiculous prices for CD's?
There's no right here.

"Again, I can't believe you mean this serious. Noone forces you to buy CDs at high prices, I myself have bought a few CD for about a 1€/$. There are libraries, radios, etc. (The only music prices which are ridiculously high, are charts-pop. Then again, I wouldn't take them for free..."

I totally disagree. YES they force me to buy CD's at high prices, not "charts-pop" CD's. Anyway many people like charts-pop music, what about them?!..
I don't know what kind of CD's you find at such low prices.
For example, RMB - Mission Horizon. Union Jack - There Will Be No Armageddon. I bought those two albums, they cost around 15$. This is quality electronic music, not "charts-pop" (and sure you may disagree). Anyway this is stupid, mentioning album names.. why am i even doing this?.. It's simply not true. Almost ALL new albums have too high prices. I feel sick buying a CD at such a price, i can actually feel like i'm being stolen from. However i still buy because i respect those artists very much.

children... there was a thread devoted entirely to this very topic (Continuum should remember it), started by Neo Neko, iirc. i do not see the need to reiterate the points made there, and were a lot of external arguments linked from that thread which i thought were fairly informative. i don't feel the need to go through this again, and though some may disagree, it would do you well to at least read up on those opinions first to avoid wasting time.

If you are on a LAN and you connect through a gateway, only the ip of the gateway will be exposed to the internet.

It's called proprietary software...

Where do you think that pirated copy of XP Pro on you computer came from?

I don't have a pirated copy of WinXP Pro.
And yes, this is a useless argument. I prefer not to "waste time" as shimage said. It's all been said before. Boring ...

Hahaha well I do.

As shimage pointed out we were all over this already. The thread is still here in the backlog in the general forum I believe. There was a sister thread over at doom9.org. It comes down to this. The pirates are wrong, and the RIAA and friends are wrong as well. Both groups are quite "boneheaded" as someone put it. The RIAA fights the pirates and the pirates only pirate more to fight the RIAA which in turn fights the pirates more which in turn pirate more which in turn fight more etc. Vicious cycle. Both groups are wrong but to pigheaded arrogant to see. Both of them are so riteous, how could they be wrong? P2P has been hijacked quite against it's will. P2P has quite a bit of prommise and could do great things. But both groups are boud to drag it kicking and screaming to an early grave.

If you are a riteous pirate fighting for everyones rights via P2P do us all a favor and belt sand your CPU and HD. I don't need anyone acting on my behalf. Especially if they act that way. LIF had a post in the off topic forum. No one responded to it. But the link inside was quite good I thought. I lost it, but found it again since this thread veered off this way. http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....78d8a94ff550050 The RIAA is wrong but they fight with laws and the legal system. If we are going to beat them or reform the systems we need more people on our side doing the same. Not children playing games.

Just wondering, anyone tried this program http://www.stealther.com/ which claims total anonymity for it's users. I'm not sure if it would obscure your p2p type programs. Also, some programs- AquaLimewire(?) now allow you to add lists of addresses that are known to be sending out dummy packets or tracking programs. You can read more about this at http://www.unitethecows.com/index.php if you are interested, they keep an updated list in one of their forums. Hope this isn't too off subject. cadabra3

Bingo Powder.

Some people have said that "they" can't find out your IP. This is simply not true.

Here's a quick explanation. So as Power states, if you have Internet access and for example you have cable or ADSL then you have hardware in your home (cable modem or ADSL terminal)... these devices have IP address that your ISP does *know*. BUT... Regardless of if you use a firewall, router or whatever, something in your home has to get an IP lease from the cable modem or ADSL terminal.

Therefore, the modem/terminal device *knows* what IP address it gave some piece of equipment in your home and the ISP knows the IP address of the modem / terminal device. They really have all the necessary information should they choose to keep logs or monitor traffic going to their device in your home (never mind the individual PCs).

BTW, if you have dial-up the explanation is somewhat different but ultimately your ISP can determine your IP address / monitor traffic (unless you do some really nutty stuff).

I'll leave the debate alone on whether people _should_ d/l or share ripped music.

LOL! OMFG someone got back on topic!

All those solutions seme to be using proxys though. Speed can't be to good.

I've used Stealther and yes, it does use proxies.

It cannot be used for P2P, playing games online, etc... - it's only really useful for surfing (and then only if you're totally paranoid, or live in a totalitarian regime!! )

Does the USA qualify, using that definition? Oh well, figured it was too good to be true- thanks.

I use Stealther and have done so for quite some time if I do not want to leave any traces, in Super Stealth mode it's VERY slow.

Think someone mentioned it, but look into Freenet.

BTW, I found out about it thru a website for a program I've been looking for forever. Seems like the project is down, I think the page was last edited in 2001. It's called CryptoBox and it's supposed to be an ultrasecure instant messaging application. You can find it here. If any knows anything about this project or have the program, please contact me.