Hi

First of all i have to say that I am a lame newbie.

I have one big question: For my movie rips with divx i would like to encode the movie soundtrack at ~96kbps! I have read many threads in this forum, i found many settings but nothing "real" for movies at ~96kbps

First I used "--alt-preset 96" with lame/besweet 1.4 for that issue but with that cmdl the files were always downsampled to 32khz, which can (and did) cause sync problems (appending --resample 48 didnt change anything (32khz))

So I am asking and hope that perhaps the people who know what they are doing can post "good" (I am not asking for the best, as i think no one really knows what the best is ) command lines for encoding soundtracks at ~96kbps with lame!

I am happy about every suggestion made!


PS: I know that it is better to encode soundtracks at at least 128kbps and that i can use ogg vorbis for low bitrates

VBR/ABR-Audio doesn´work in AVI, so try:
--alt-preset cbr 96
make the resampling with SSRC in BeSweet and not in lame to 32kHz. And do not use Nandub to mux mp3/avi, use WaveMP3 and VirtualDub. Now sync-issues will be gone.

If you know that - why don´t you do it? There is no reason not to use the OGM-Container with Vorbis-Audio.

I suggest you use Vorbis and then mux the sound and video together with OggMux...

Thank you for your answers!

Is it good for the quality of the file to upsample while using alt-presets (which caused the downsampling)?

Are there any other suggestions for encoding a movie soundtrack at ~96kbps?


@ogg
I am not using ogg at the moment (perhaps in the future) because i read in other forums that some people had problems with their ogm files after updating to the last directshow filter!

upsampling is never good - like increasing resolution of the picture.
You could also use Fraunhofer (not the Radium-MP3), because Lame is not perfect tuned for 32kHz.
You don´t have much choice, because you cannot use VBR in AVI.

Yes, that´s definitly the better way.

I use the filter for a very long time now (I downloaded the first version in 2001, unfortuntely first I didn´t realized that this filter was more than vorbis-playback filter) and the last 10 versions are working perfect, without any problems.
The only bug in the actual version is a bug: Tags are written in Unicode instead of UTF8.

Hey people ,this is the place of pro's here isn't it ?
So the claim of VBR and AVI don't fit well together is simply NOT true.
They are easy do , with a little help from a special software (like modified ver of VirtualDub called "Vdub Mp3/Freeze")

ALL of mine 100+ movies got VBR sound and nether I or ANY of my pals got any problems with this audio compression.
(But I guess ,S_O, you already know this)

Secondly ,bond, NEVER use an "alt" presets - as many test showed they are suck..

Rarely I also do a ~96Kpbs audio ,if I on really low space budget
My settings for lame are:
-m j -v --vbr-old -V 5 -b 64 -B 128
also you can try the r3mix preset - I heard I worth something.

P.s
If time is an issue change --vbr-old to --vbr-mtrh ,but as long as even %1 of quality ,without raise the bitrate,can be achived I will use the old routine

P.s.s: you can also change the 64 to 32, if you like

AVI is not designed to contain VBR-Audio. You are able to mux VBR in AVI with NanDub etc. but is hack and might not always work. I have tried it myself and it doesn´t work for me. Until I don´t seek it´s ok, but after seeking audio is totally displaced.

This test also showed that Xing is best MP3-Encoder ever, just a little bit better than blade and shine. I would like to see the this test. The alt-presets are the best modes for Lame. Recommend Lame settings: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....t=ST&f=15&t=203

Hi alchemy

thanks for your -m j -v --vbr-old -V 5 -b 64 -B 128 and the r3mix preset! I am going to try that as soon as possible

Perhaps anybody also uses other commandlines...?

Well it's funny to read here and in other threads (see "problem with vbr in divx") that VBR and ABR does not work within AVI.

First of all, the movie release groups must be contained of technical idiots then because their rules ("TDX 2002") definitely require VBR/ABR technique when MP3 is used for the soundtrack, while CBR is not allowed.

Additionally, I cannot remember to have experienced any trouble with those releases that contained MP3-VBR within AVI file.

And what about DVDivX-rippacks like Gordian Knot by TheWEF that use ABR technique with implemented BeSweet?

Finally, I use VBR/ABR for all my own DVDivX encodings and they work fine, too. Tested them not only on my system.

Because of these reasons, I cannot really understand a statement like "avi not designed for vbr". DivX and all other modern video formats are vbr, too.

Nandub works fine with vbr. There is not alternative for OGM files. With OGGMux, you cannot even set a delay in version 0.9.3 (field is grey).

@bond:

Maybe you want to try --alt-preset 112. Bitrate is between 96 and 128 then and you will have 44 KHz.

As far as I can understand, the AVI format (by Microsoft) was never designed for VBR audio streams. And if I'm not mistaken, their Media Player also lacks the ability to handle VBR MP3s properly (strange play times appearing etc.). I am aware that Gordian Knot does produce AVIs with ABR (VBR) MP3 audio streams that are perfectly playable, but that's because it uses a "hack" of some sort or something (a workaround, perhaps).

Maybe DSPGuru can elaborate on this, since he is the maker of BeSweet (which Gordian Knot uses)?

EDIT: Also, MJ-, this delay thing in OGMs, just set this delay when you create the Vorbis stream (from the BeSweet GUI).

Why not use HeadAC3he? It automatically corrects delay and encodes directly to Vorbis with resampling, norminalize.... very fast.

Perfectly playable? Not for me! I always need to extract the audio, encode it to Vorbis and then mux the movie to OGM. Maybe when you switch to another/newer OS, Soundcard.... you have the same problems, why don´t you do it right in the first place??

@ kjempen

It's true that WMP is not recommendable for playing DivX files - probably the VBR issue is one reason beside others...
But using players like ZoomPlayer, BSPlayer, PowerDivX and so on should not produce any problems with mp3-vbr within avi.

It would be interesting to hear what developers of tools like BeSweet, GKnot, Vidomi and others think about that "theoretical issue" of AVI files.

You hit the nail right on the spot!

Why don't you ask Avery Lee, the developer of Virtualdub? He's got really strong opinions on AVI and VBR-MP3 himself. Why do you think the main Virtualdub branch has never supported VBR MP3?

If you want to keep the sound in 44,1kHz, and you really want to use mp3, then you should use a FhG-encoder (Radium works ok if you ask me), preferrable mp3enc. Even if avi can handle vbr-mp3s, the sound of lame ~96kbits at 44.1kHz is just horrible.

Someone will need to confirm this, but fhg at 96 I think uses intensity stereo, which will destroy some of your surround information.

I used to use --alt -preset 128 --lowpass 16 for movies. I mux with nandub. I know this is supposed to be "a crude hack" but I have never had a single problem with it.

If you are having bitrate problems, I suggest you look at the "mode 2" guide at doom9.

It lets you alter the data of a div-x file so that it can be burned the same as an audio disc or SVCD, with 800 instead of 700 megs of data.

The discs become slightly more suceptable to scratches but no more so than your audio cds.

The extra hundred megs allows you to keep the professionaly downmixed 2 channel ac3 track (192kbps), and improve the video quality at the same time.

If I HAD to use mp3@96, I would try something like this,

--abr 96 -h --lowpass 15.5

I think -mj is default at this bitrate so you might want to throw in -mj in case this is wrong. Re-sample your decoded wav to 32Khz prior to encoding with ssrc. If you stay at 44Khz you will be spreading your bits even thinner. The lowpass is needed to avoid problems in the highs as you approach the Nyquist cut-off.


But from what I am hearing about vorbis at 64 though, you might want to look at using using it. Lame is tuned best at higher bitrates, and mp3 is not the best choice for 96kbps.

Try that line anyway and see what you think.

Probably he experienced problems with AVI and MP3-VBR. But there were further developments that seem to work - Nandub is an example for that.

And if OGM solves all these problems - why then is there no real successor/modification to VirtualDub that has capability to handle DivX and Vorbis? OGGMux is obviously no replacement for the great tools available for AVI-DivX.

As I wrote in another thread, with available tools one can mux to OGM but not edit the OGM files afterwards (like substitute audio stream). I just remember all the discussions that occured after ViTE released "The Others" as DivX-Vorbis-OGM. People asked how to play the audio. Problem was solved simply by installing the DS filter. But what if they asked how to extract audio track and add another language (wherever they got it from)? Graphedit as only solution?

Despite the submissions of Virtualdub-vbr-mp3 and Nandub, VBR MP3 never made it into the main branch of Virtualdub simply because Avery Lee refuses to support an ugly hack which doesn't work for everybody. The fact is AVI was not meant to, and not designed to take VBR audio streams, besides other limitations. That is why there are people looking for other solutions now, either going with Ogg containers, or helping to develope the new MCF format.

The fact is, OGM (or to put it correctly, Ogg container format) is designed to for VBR audio and video streams (amongst many other types of data which AVI doesn't support). The lack of tools does not deny that fact. Nor does the existance of so many "great tools" mean that AVI is the superior format. Fact is, AVI is outdated and needs replacing.

AVI is sort of like MP3. They're not the best, there are better alternatives, and they are outdated. Yet they are still the most popular formats simply because they came out when they were needed, and because of inertia, people are unwilling to make the switch. To make matters worse, egoistic, elitist and technically challenged release groups continue to make people use these inferior formats, preventing the adoption of superior methods by the masses.

We need to stop holding ourselves back to outdated things and move forward. We need to look ahead to better things. Those who know what the problem is need to do their part and encode using the newer methods. Get people to install the necessary filters/plugins. Educate them on the advantages of the newer methods. Bug the developers to support the newer methods. Hopefully if all these work, the newer methods will become accepted.

And we can pull ourselves out of the hole which has been dug for us.

On a related note: Is there any forum or discussion group for DivX encoding, which is suitable fo a newbie, that anyone would like to recommend?

http://forum.doom9.org
http://www.everwicked.com

@ Pearson

maybe you also try the forum at www.divx.com and www.divx-digest.com

@ tangent



I totally agree in your conclusion. Keeping my eyes open for new developments arriving that give better access to those great new formats. Time for a total switch will come.

So long a lot of users will have to use the outdated formats. Just think of the portable audio players that support mp3 or wma, but (correct me if I'm wrong) no Vorbis. It's a shame. Users interested in new and better technologies are urged to set on two different branches - to (still) use the old MP3/AVI branch and to follow (already) the new OGG branch for testing and supporting development until it substitutes the old stuff.

Why didn't anybody tell...

Meanwhile there exists a modification for VirtualDub that is capable of handling OGM files!
http://cyrius.bunkus.org/

Still have to test it for different purposes, but it is very promising (cutting a clip out of an OGM file and adding a vorbis audio track worked on a first test)!