I've been looking for Ode To Freedom - Bernstein In Berlin for ages and I bought the CD second hand on Amazon but the last track is scratched and even EAC cannot recover it. The disc doesn't look to bad but it is. Do you think I can download it? I've never downloaded music in my life but I want this recording and I have bought it.

That said I only want a lossless version so argghhh.


:-(

Fairy

Ignore this I looked on Amazon and there are lots of retailers on there that have it now so I've ordered another copy. Really annoying though.

it's legal.

Unfortunally, you just bought a scratched cd and not the right to obtain a copy from somewhere else.

Depends on where you live. In the Netherlands for instance, you can dl a copy even if you don't have the original cd/album. Audio, not software or movies

I ve lost my bag filled with over 50CDs just a couple of days ago. Think it might have been stolen. I have all the covers home but the CDs are all gone (most of them). Would it be okey to download these I miss?

So, in the space of six posts we've gone from a single track to 50 CDs' worth of downloads. Does anyone else see a can of worms opening here ?

Regards,
Madrigal

The best opinion is of course to ask a lawyer in your country, preferably the one specialised in the copyright law. He must be knowing what is legal and what not.

Laws about this specific issue differ from country to country - so there is no universal answer to your question I am afraid

ps: of course, lawyer fee could be much more expensive than the price of content, so maybe you could tell us the country where you live and maybe some good soul will give a legal answer free of charge

heh, I guess so. Thing is I am a DJ and this really has happened to be just. Ive reported it missing to the local police station aswell as I phoned the taxi station to have a look around cause I did go by taxi the night I lost it. As I said I still have all the plastic covers with the original prints in. I just bring my case to gigs. I don't know how things get if I play mp3s on a gig and some kind of emploee of some copyright thing gets up to me wondering if I have bought these CDs. Can I show him the covers and he will be settled?

Edit: BTW, Sweden is the country...

claesbas.
As long as the place where you perform as a DJ pays all fees to "STIM" etc I don't think it matters what the source of the music is.

the original question with a twist. If I own an vinylalbum and do a rip to cd and give it to "you" who also own the album. Legal? or does it depend on where you live?

i don't see how it can be iligal. you already paid for the right to have it.

You've paid for one copy of it. Obviously it depends rather on country, but if you download it, you then have two copies of it, regardless of whether you like the first one or not. That's why it's illegal in the UK to make copies of CD to put on a computer or DAP.

So you're saying its illegal to put songs from a CD onto your DAP?

Cobblers

The link is a little outdated, but here it is in black and white: New Zealand to 'legalise CD piracy'


It was my understanding that these sort of copies came under "fair use", but I really don't know. I've seen various articles where the above is the consensus.

Same applies here in Australia. Time shifting isn't legal either. I think that they always have to have some BS laws for everyone to break. Otherwise we would have to start breaking the important ones.

In the UK, yes. People usually say it's legal because of Fair Use, when in fact it's nothing to do with that. I think in most other countries (the US, for example) it is legal, though.

edit: Ah, Synthetic Soul's link says it better than I ever could

I sincerely doubt that. After all, the one who would be providing the download (if not the copyright holder) would certianly be in violation of copyright law, as it is not allowed to copy music and movies for someone else in The Netherlands. So the downloader would at least be guilty of complicty in copyright infringement.

I don't know; it's legal to possess five grams of cannabis in the Netherlands and yet for that to be possible other people must possess more than five grams. It's basically the same concept; something being legal yet requiring a law to be broken to actually take place.

Sorry, that's a myth. Possession of cannabis is not legal at all. It is "tolerated" (or "gedoogd" in Dutch) to possess up to 5 grams.

There is no such policy for copying and redistributing music.

Ok well by legal I meant decriminalised. I really shouldn't have been caught out by that given how often I've corrected other people for it .


Also I think there's no law against downloading copyrighted music - I'm at least fairly sure that no one has been sued or convicted for it; only for sharing the music. I imagine it would be quite difficult to pull off since, without using legal services, there's no way of reading any copyright information about the recording: thus how can anyone be expected to know it is copyrighted?

I think it is strictly illegal to download the music even though I own it. It's even illegal to rip it for my DAP here in the UK.

"
Question 2: Do you believe people who are buying CDs legally and copying that music to an iPod should be punished - as they are, in fact, breaking the law?
Darren, Cardiff

Answer 2, Peter Jamieson: Consumers don't have the right to copy CDs in the UK and never have, and though we've never brought action against anyone for private copying, the advent of peer-to-peer and digital distribution has turned the issue on its head.

The real problem starts when people decide to upload their ripped CD collection to the internet for millions of others to take for free. There is nothing private about sharing your music collection with millions of others which is why we focus our anti-piracy efforts on the worst offenders.

"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4642364.stm#2

The law is an ass. When the British Phonographic Industry says it's illegal but it's not a problem you have to ask why should they get to choose which laws apply to them and we don't. (I think we should all live by reasonable laws).

I just dont give a damn. In an ethic POV you arent doing nothing bad since you already paid for it. So IMHO if you cant be arrested by doing such a thing, just do it.

Perhaps there is no direct law for it. But sharing the files is certainly against the law. It is actually allowed to go to a library, rent a DVD or CD and copy it for home use. Perhaps downloading would fall in the same category. But yeah, where would you download it?


There are 2 arguments against that:

1. Any kind of work is by definition protected by copyright law even if it doesn't explicitely say so.

2. There is something like intend. You aren't downloading random files from the internet. If you are looking for a RHCP song on Kazaa at least an adult should be expected to be well aware of the fact it is protected by copyright law.

Anyways, it's kinda hard to say anything new about this subject.

I've had cd's stolen before while on vacation, and have re-burned the cd's from mp3's that I had originally ripped from the cd (used foobar to convert to wav, with dither, when burning the replacement cd's). This is a somewhat similar issue to downloading stuff that you own. I'd legitimately ripped the mp3's from cd's that I owned... and since I lost the cd's illegitimately, I felt justified in burning replacement discs from the mp3's. If, on the other hand, I had sold the cd's, then legally I probably wouldn't be justified in burning replacments.

As a minimalist, my biggest problem is the issue of clutter that CD boxes present.

It's one thing to buy a car and keep a small certificate in your home to prove your ownership. But having to keep a big plastic box for every song on your computer is asking a lot, especially if you have a vast music collection and a small home.

Personally, I still own many songs that I no longer have the CDs for. I've always hated CDs and used to give them away as soon as I'd copied them. But a few years ago I started keeping all my CDs in case I ever want to re-encode (plus I haven't scanned all the covers yet). When the time is right, I'll probably just encode everything lossess and give them all to charity.

If giving CDs away is illegal then there is always the chance that they might be misplaced or stolen while I'm walking past my local charity shop.

In America? Probably. I seem to recall an article somewhere that indicated that RIAA wanted to make it illegal to rip CD's. Period.

It is illegal to upload copyrighted audio, software, or movies. Yes it is illegal to download copyrighted movies and software . Strangely, it is allowed to download audio -for instance from usenet, or make copies of a friend's collection. One can obtain a copy for private use even if s/he doesn't own any original.

more info on our copyright laws:
http://www.euro-copyrights.org/index/1

afaik the downloading provisions apply to everything that has a 'fair use' backup policy allowance.. which includes movies (ie. it's legal to record a tv broadcast with a vcr just as it's legal to download it)

the 'complicity' is nonsense, unless perhaps you're actually buying them from someone, and even then generally only the supplier will be arrested (same with uploading.. it's ignored so long as it's for private use, unless money is made out of it)
So copying (downloading) movies/audio in holland (and other parts of europe) is fine, and while uploading isn't, it's ignored when it's not done for monetary gain, or from >=10MBit conns, and release-group affiliated

anyway, to get back on topic..
In the US making/downloading a copy of material you already own is illegal, since downloading anything but share/freeware is illegal (that is, anything you should, but don't intend to pay for is). making backup copies is only allowed when you're doing so on/from a vcr (ie. when the quality is horrible, and the medium known to detiorate).

Anything digital has been illegalized by way of the DMCA, which includes cd's (though again, private use is generally ignored, excepting the MPAA/RIAA who are hell-bent on John Doe suing everyone and their grandmother, which incidentally includes suing dead people and people who don't own a computer)
just remember, dvd/cd's cannot be damaged, and if they are it's your own damn fault

the laws surrounding this stuff is always 'iffy'

one side of the story: you are allowed to make backup copies (fair use), but downloading would not be fair use because it is somebody else's backup

.. but that makes little sense... when you buy a CD, you purchase a liscense for the content for your personal use, and that content is the same even if you download it... so logic would suggest that it is legal to download what you bought (i mean liscensed)

.. and that would mean that it is legal to share the content that you bought with another person who also bought it..... so the only people violating copyright law would be the ones who are downloading without owning a copy first.

if I were to leave the keys in a car I am renting, and the door unlocked, and the car gets stolen.... the theif is the one who has broken the law, not me.... but according to the riaa's views, the car rental place should file suit against me for 'sharing' the car

all this is making my head hurt, it's too bad laws and the riaa are often illogical

In the US, you do not buy a licsence when you buy a standard CD. You buy a license when you purchase software that has some warning *beforehand that it is a license you are purchasing. When you buy a CD, you are buying a copy of that work and the physical medium on which it is contained. It is covered under right of 1st sale in the USA.

*Note: I am not aware of any case law establishing a license to be enforceable if it was agreed to after the fact of purchase -- such as on a click wrap agreement on store bought software, unless there was some sufficient warning on the product before purchase. Once you accept money for a product, you establish right of 1st sale. To circumvent this, it has to be reasonably warned that you are not purchasing a product, but instead a license to use a product. If one is familar with directly relevant case law that defines the contrary, please let me know immediately[as i have yet to find it], as to inform me of proper law.

-Chris

that would suggest that I could set up an internet radio station, and broadcast all the music I purchased, and not have to pay any royalties.. since, after all others are just listening to the music I purchased.. just like it would be legal to play my CDs at a party, no royalties and everyone in the room can listen.. just because that party is spread all over the world, it shouldn't make any difference

I think I just confused myself again

IP has specific provisions, and they do not include broadcast for public performance unless you are paying royalties as prescribed by the code. You own the compact disc and that copy of the copyrighted material on the compact disc. You do not own the copyright to re-distribute new *copies of that material or make public broadcasts[which is basicly a form of distribution].

* You do have certain rights to make copies of copyrighted audio material if the copies you make are classified as recordings so far as the process used to duplicate[please refer to the Home Recording Act for specific definitions], and are for non-commercial use(s).

-Chris

Best post of this tread. Discussing the edges of copyright usualy leads to nowere. Lots of contradicting and non-sense laws, as already showed in this tread...

IMHO, digital media and internet make coping very easy and natural. The industry need to adapt to this, not try to ban and sue every one and every thing in every way possible, and in the process baning also good things that don't harm them. Most artists gain more money making shows than seeling CDs, so, why not?