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Compact Dick
Source: http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/index.php/id...140;fp;2;fpid;1

Excerpts:

QUOTE
Researchers at the Fraunhofer Integrated Publication and Information Systems Institute have successfully tested a software system, based on the group's own digital watermarking technology, for tracking pirated audio files in P-to-P (peer-to-peer) file-sharing networks, said Michael Kip, a spokesman for the institute.

...

The system lets content providers, such as music studios, embed a watermark in their downloadable MP3 files. Watermark technology makes slight changes to data in both sound and image files.

...

The digital media watermark used in the Fraunhofer system also contains a "hash value," which creates a link between the content provider and registered purchaser. "The hash value is like a fingerprint; it contains unique information about the user," Kip said. "The software that we've developed can automatically search for fingerprints."

The Fraunhofer approach differs from others in that it doesn't monitor the individuals who illegally download music but rather scans for content that has been illegally uploaded.

"If, for instance, you purchase and download a CD, burn a copy and give it to a friend and that person puts it on a file sharing network, our system will trace that music back to you and, depending on the legal system of the country you're in, you could be [hit] with an expensive fine," Kip said. "This could certainly help deter online music piracy."

Fraunhofer envisions the prototype software as an application that content providers can install on their own servers for automatically monitoring P-to-P networks around the clock.


Some online sites such as Vonyc are already using this. From their FAQ:

QUOTE
What is the Watermark

The Watermark of ISPI Fraunhofer Institute ? An efficient technology to prevent copyright infringement

Each sold track is provided with this special watermark to enable tracking of its source.
It includes the name, adress, personal registration number and a secred code - all saved in the track.
The explicit watermark will be permanently embedded in the file, even after it is burned onto CD or converted to other file formats.

Can I share my downloads with friends?

No. Anyone found distributing, sharing or copying our MP3 files will have their account suspended and face prosecution by the relevant authorities.
Piracy will not be tolerated.


This would be great if someone got access to your watermarked MP3s, then copied and uploaded them to a P2P network. Unexpected visits from law enforcement officials is fun, innit?
unfortunateson
either:

1) piraters will find ways to hack around the watermark.

2) burn as audio cd and retranscode as unwatermarked mp3 (meaning even more worse sounding, second generation mp3s)

3) don't waste time with these online stores or illegal pirating services.

edit: clarification
Veej007
* this is only relevant if the record industry decides to allow online music stores to sell unprotected audio files. i'd welcome that change, but i don't think it's going to happen.

* frankly i could care less what fhg implements in their encoders, and somehow i can't envision this getting incorporated into lame
Compact Dick
QUOTE(unfortunateson @ Feb 11 2006, 12:08 AM)
either:
2) burn as audio cd and retranscode as unwatermarked mp3 (meaning even more worse sounding, second generation mp3s)
*


Apparently, this is designed to survive such a process.

QUOTE(Veej007 @ Feb 11 2006, 12:37 AM)
*  this is only relevant if the record industry decides to allow online music stores to sell unprotected audio files.
*


Watermarked files are still protected files (but I see what you mean -- as opposed to DRM'd files).

Personally, I'd just avoid stores that use this technology -- their loss.
Gabriel
If the watermark is really inaudible, that would be a convenient solution, way better than copy/play-protected files.
Unfortunately psychoacoustic models using in lossy encoders and transparent watermark are competiting between each other, and if the watermark is really transparent and the end lossy encoders will destroy it.

note: FhG has been working on watermarking since ages.
iSiDoRoS
Like i'm ever going to buy online music especially with spy stuff in it tongue.gif
I bet online sales will also be affected with all these tricks going on.
Good job guys! Nice thinking!
Wintershade
The following statements will all be, and stay, IMHO.

As if anyone who seriously wants high quality music will ever consider listening to Fraunhofer mp3s, and knowingly ditch Lame and Helix.
Moreover, as if anyone who ever heard about D****t C*****t or B**T*****t will ever consider actually paying for music in lossy formats and actually low bitrates (AFAIK, most Fraunhofer mp3s you find will be in 192 or even 128 kbps).
And finally, most of us here are buying CDs or at least ripping them ourselves, using Lame, Vorbis, AAC or similar free, watermark-free and high quality codecs.
To conclude, who cares?
gameplaya15143
laugh.gif this watermark BS is funny.

With their legal philosophy.. if someone steals my car, I would go to jail and not the theif (the one who actually broke the law) rolleyes.gif

They will never have my business, and I will certainly try to convince others the same.
MuncherOfSpleens
QUOTE(Compact Dick @ Feb 10 2006, 08:47 PM)
QUOTE(unfortunateson @ Feb 11 2006, 12:08 AM)
either:
2) burn as audio cd and retranscode as unwatermarked mp3 (meaning even more worse sounding, second generation mp3s)
*


Apparently, this is designed to survive such a process.
*


I doubt that's possible. If it is, they could just put this technology on CD's in the first place. Personally, I think they're just trying to scare people.
[JAZ]
QUOTE(MuncherOfSpleens @ Feb 11 2006, 04:48 PM)
I doubt that's possible.  If it is, they could just put this technology on CD's in the first place.  Personally, I think they're just trying to scare people.
*



Putting it on CD's means deploying lots of different copies (different data) of the same CD, which means increasing the costs of production quite much.

Hollunder
QUOTE([JAZ] @ Feb 11 2006, 05:56 PM)
QUOTE(MuncherOfSpleens @ Feb 11 2006, 04:48 PM)
I doubt that's possible.  If it is, they could just put this technology on CD's in the first place.  Personally, I think they're just trying to scare people.
*



Putting it on CD's means deploying lots of different copies (different data) of the same CD, which means increasing the costs of production quite much.
*



Why different copies/data?
I can imagine studios simply running their finished product through a 'watermarker'.
If it survives transcoding and stuff it might be possible to apply it to the raw pcm data too.

although, I hope that this won't happen, I don't like the thought of having more or less personal data stored in my audio files.
[JAZ]
QUOTE(Hollunder @ Feb 11 2006, 06:18 PM)
Why different copies/data?
I can imagine studios simply running their finished product through a 'watermarker'.
If it survives transcoding and stuff it might be possible to apply it to the raw pcm data too.

although, I hope that this won't happen, I don't like the thought of having more or less personal data stored in my audio files.
*



watermark = digital print.

To have a different watermark for each CD, it means that the data of each cd is different.
CD's are not burned. they are pressed. This would require to change that, being each pressed cd unique (as if it was a new title).That's what i wanted to point out.

Being it personal (as in each cd containing the info of the person who buys it) is a much more problematic thing (then, the cd is burned for you, so... shipment requirements, wait x days... etc.). Nothing an user would see as beneficial.
madorangepanda
If this was used on CD's would it not also make the Accuraterip database useless as the CRC's would be different for every single CD as the data on each would be unique?
Hollunder
QUOTE([JAZ] @ Feb 11 2006, 07:05 PM)
QUOTE(Hollunder @ Feb 11 2006, 06:18 PM)
Why different copies/data?
I can imagine studios simply running their finished product through a 'watermarker'.
If it survives transcoding and stuff it might be possible to apply it to the raw pcm data too.

although, I hope that this won't happen, I don't like the thought of having more or less personal data stored in my audio files.
*



watermark = digital print.

To have a different watermark for each CD, it means that the data of each cd is different.
CD's are not burned. they are pressed. This would require to change that, being each pressed cd unique (as if it was a new title).That's what i wanted to point out.

Being it personal (as in each cd containing the info of the person who buys it) is a much more problematic thing (then, the cd is burned for you, so... shipment requirements, wait x days... etc.). Nothing an user would see as beneficial.
*



Ah ok, now I know what you mean.
Let's hope that we can still buy pressed CDs in a few years... I do imagine weird things like shop-burned CDs for future, hope it's just my paranoia..

madorangepanda I guess so....
GL1zdA
QUOTE(madorangepanda @ Feb 11 2006, 10:06 PM)
If this was used on CD's would it not also make the Accuraterip database useless as the CRC's would be different for every single CD as the data on each would be unique?
*


Yes, it would, but as someone said, it would require a new master for every CD, so its useless.
Wintershade
madorangepanda, AFAIK, audio CDs have no CRC data. Adding CRC to the data on audio CD and wrapping it in an usable container makes a WAV or AIFF.

Hollunder, don't worry. Things like that will never occur for economical reasons (I happen to study this at the college). Besides, if CDs would be burnt in shops, what force on Earth would prevent shopkeepers from burning a million copies and give them for free to their friends and relatives? (Actually, now that I think of it, what prevents them even now to do that?)

As for the watermarks, from what I've read here, those would not survive the first mp3 encoding, because mp3 removes inaudible data, which means including the watermark (especially Fraunhofer - these codecs remove even audible data biggrin.gif ). The only solution to this would be adding the watermark after encoding to mp3.

And lastly, now that I see other people's opinions about this and think a little more about it, I can't elude the thought - I smell spyware... Imagine Lavasoft Ad-Aware or Zonealarm erasing all your Fraunhofer mp3s (not that I would complain...)

edit: typos and some more words added
ChiGung
QUOTE(Wintershade @ Feb 12 2006, 10:54 PM)
madorangepanda, AFAIK, audio CDs have no CRC data. Adding CRC to the data on audio CD and wrapping it in an usable container makes a WAV or AIFF.

Almost the reverse is true actualy, the error correction data on the CD is like alot of CRC data. Wavs and Aiffs can contain little or no CRC.

QUOTE
As for the watermarks, from what I've read here, those would not survive the first mp3 encoding, because mp3 removes inaudible data, which means including the watermark (especially Fraunhofer - these codecs remove even audible data  biggrin.gif ). The only solution to this would be adding the watermark after encoding to mp3.

I wouldnt rule out the possibility of hiding watermark signal that would survive lossy encoding but be subtle enough to not be noticed by anyone, except carefull 'ABXers'
But like has been mentioned, I dont see what practical use could be made of it.
We dont need to be worried about this because its impractical, but if it helps persuade 'the crowd' that this type of thing is acceptable, desireable if achieved and in their interests, then the funding for its research is well spent, as well as keeping in with the research communities contracted to develope the technolgies.

QUOTE
And lastly, now that I see other people's opinions about this and think a little more about it, I can't elude the thought - I smell spyware... Imagine Lavasoft Ad-Aware or Zonealarm erasing all your Fraunhofer mp3s (not that I would complain...)

hehe, that would be cool biggrin.gif

edit: i mean erasing the watermarks*
Jojo
isn't it possible to get 2 versions of the same watermarked song and compare the differences between the two. Everything that is present in file 1 but not in file 2 must be the watermark and vice versa. Just a quick thought...
SebastianG
QUOTE(Gabriel @ Feb 11 2006, 08:32 AM)
If the watermark is really inaudible, that would be a convenient solution, way better than copy/play-protected files. Unfortunately psychoacoustic models using in lossy encoders and transparent watermark are competiting between each other, and if the watermark is really transparent and the end lossy encoders will destroy it.
*



I believe it's possible to embed a transparent watermak which survives some transcoding passes. Another factor that comes into play is the bitrate of the original "watermark signal" which will be embedded possibly using heavy error correcting codes (low bitrate + high reduncancy). I've read somewhere that FhG is able to safely embedd a watermark signal with a bitrate of around 100 bits/s (no KILO!). Quite believable IMHO.

Sebi
SebastianG
QUOTE(Jojo @ Feb 13 2006, 02:47 AM)
isn't it possible to get 2 versions of the same watermarked song and compare the differences between the two. Everything that is present in file 1 but not in file 2 must be the watermark and vice versa. Just a quick thought...
*



Yeah, this is a kind of watermark attack (mixing two versions). But I believe watermarking schemes exist that are resistent to this attack -- at least to some extent. (not sure, though)

Sebi
Gabriel
QUOTE
I believe it's possible to embedd a transparent watermak which survives some transcoding passes. Another factor that comes into play is the bitrate of the original "watermark signal" which will be embedded possibly using heavy error correcting codes (low bitrate + high reduncancy). I've read somewhere that FhG is able to safely embedd a watermark signal with a bitrate of around 100 bits/s (no KILO!). Quite believable IMHO.

I also find it quite possible now (at the present time). But it seems to me that this goes against evolution of lossy encoders. If something inaudible can be preserved through current lossy encoders, then it means that there is a possibility of increasing efficiency of lossy encoders there.

Practically, the very low bitrate watermark is likely to have bits located in relatively big distant time location, something not exploited by current lossy encoders.
But ultimately, this could be exploited.
However, under practical considerations if this is only exploited by lossy encoders in 10 years, the watermarking still has some years of possible exploitation.
hawkeye_p
Watermarking (or better the identification by a watermark) requires a bitperfect copy of the file. It's very unlikely that a transcoded file retains a 100% undisturbed watermark.
Oge_user
This system is really not an "alternative" to DRM (and, in fact, it is worst than WMA DRM).

I read that. It isn't clear if the burned CD is an audio CD... wink.gif
QUOTE
"If, for instance, you purchase and download a CD, burn a copy and give it to a friend and that person puts it on a file sharing network, our system will trace that music back to you and, depending on the legal system of the country you're in, you could be [hit] with an expensive fine," Kip says. "This could certainly help deter online music piracy."

I wonder if they will put such protected mp3 files on the net as fake music files, in order to prove their system. Just think about the fact they could put the watermarked files themselves. rolleyes.gif
Compact Dick
QUOTE(Oge_user @ Feb 13 2006, 09:45 AM)
It isn't clear if the burned CD is an audio CD... wink.gif
*


I suspect they mean "album", by "CD".
Gabriel
QUOTE(hawkeye_p @ Feb 13 2006, 10:03 AM)
Watermarking (or better the identification by a watermark) requires a bitperfect copy of the file.

No, it doesn't need a bitperfect copy. The watermarked bistream is usually based on relative features of the transport (in our case the audio file).
hawkeye_p
Hm, could you elaborate a bit more, what I have to understand under "relative features of the transport"?
SebastianG
QUOTE(hawkeye_p @ Feb 13 2006, 10:03 AM)
Watermarking (or better the identification by a watermark) requires a bitperfect copy of the file. It's very unlikely that a transcoded file retains a 100% undisturbed watermark.
*



I'm pretty sure about that schemes exist that are robust against a certain degree of error like noise, equilization, lowpassing (to some extent). I'd bet that error correcting codes are involved. But I'm no PRO on this subject and can't point to any papers. Maybe you get lucky using google. Let me know if you do.

Sebi
hawkeye_p
Hi Sebi!

Error correcting codes are helpful only if a small percentage of the bitstream is affected.

However, transcoding results in a bit pattern that is randomly different from the original and thus unlikely to be reverted into the original watermark.

If I interpret Gabriel's statement correctly some feature of the stream itself could support such indelible watermarking. But I doubt that a free encoder such as lame will support such features.
wisodev
Google says:

- Watermark Embedding for Audio Signals - PCM, CD, MP3 and more:
http://www.musictrace.de/products/contentmark.en.htm

- Watermark, Manage & Trace
http://activatedcontent.com/_ActivatedAudi...es/default.aspx

Clients: SonyMusic ;-) and other

Papers:

http://www.ece.uvic.ca/~ece499/2003a/group...atermarking.htm

And I think lot more stuff about Audio Signal Watermarks is available over the net!

Sample files with watermarks (and program for embending watermak for WAVs):
http://www.cmlab.csie.ntu.edu.tw/~dynamic/AWM/

Edit: added link to samples and typos
Gabriel
QUOTE
Hm, could you elaborate a bit more, what I have to understand under "relative features of the transport"?

Simplified example: using average phase changes over chunks of audio.
Such a thing would exploit features (phase) of the transport (audio data).
Of course, my simplified example would have its info destroyed by a mono downmix or an intensity stereo coding, but this is just to give an overall idea of features.

edit: the link posted by wisodev describes this scheme... interesting coincidence?
Egor
Original Press release Fraunhofer IPSI - Watermark Monitor
QUOTE
...technologies are to be found in research prototypes which are currently at an advanced stage of development.
Feb 9, 2006
elmar3rd
These watermarks by Fraunhofer IPSI are already used by download shops that sell mp3-audiobooks without DRM.
What's new: only the combination with filesharing-clients.

Afaik, the watermark is added by the shops when the download starts and can contain personal information about the purchaser (or an ID, not names i assume). So its different for every copy.

They claimed one year ago, even after an analog recording (speakers > microphone) the watermark is still present.

Besides, Fraunhofer IIS is not Fraunhofer IPSI. This is not just an addition to the FhG-Encoders (IIS).
hawkeye_p
Thanks for the clarification, Gabriel!

If I understand you correcly, it's more an analog watermark than a digital one.
I agree that this type of watermarks survives transcoding or even analog conversion and resampling as a watermark.

Nevertheless I still doubt that a digital identification sustains that potentially could be traced back to the original customer.

Edit: typo
SebastianG
QUOTE(hawkeye_p @ Feb 13 2006, 02:06 PM)
Error correcting codes are helpful only if a small percentage of the bitstream is affected.
*


Depends on the redundancy which can be very high and probably is.

QUOTE(hawkeye_p @ Feb 13 2006, 02:06 PM)
However, transcoding results in a bit pattern that is randomly different from the original and thus unlikely to be reverted into the original watermark.
*


Looks like you're thinking "too digital". Good watermarks can be even detected if you decode your file and transmit it via FM radio. This is already done by some stations and gadgets exist that record 10 seconds of such a signal and tell you exactly which artist is singing what title -- 'cause that's what has been hidden in the signal (watermark).

Sebi
hawkeye_p
Indeed, I had more the idea of steganographics in my mind than this type of (more or less) analog watermarking.
Hollunder
QUOTE(SebastianG @ Feb 13 2006, 03:49 PM)

QUOTE(hawkeye_p @ Feb 13 2006, 02:06 PM)
However, transcoding results in a bit pattern that is randomly different from the original and thus unlikely to be reverted into the original watermark.
*


Looks like you're thinking "too digital". Good watermarks can be even detected if you decode your file and transmit it via FM radio. This is already done by some stations and gadgets exist that record 10 seconds of such a signal and tell you exactly which artist is singing what title -- 'cause that's what has been hidden in the signal (watermark).

Sebi
*



I heard of a fm-Station where you call a number and hold your phone to the speaker for a few seconds, after that they tell (or you get a message, dunno, never tried it) you which song it is. No idea if they still offer that service, but I guess it's quite the same.
Ivan Dimkovic
QUOTE(SebastianG @ Feb 13 2006, 02:49 PM)
QUOTE(hawkeye_p @ Feb 13 2006, 02:06 PM)
Error correcting codes are helpful only if a small percentage of the bitstream is affected.
*


Depends on the redundancy which can be very high and probably is.

QUOTE(hawkeye_p @ Feb 13 2006, 02:06 PM)
However, transcoding results in a bit pattern that is randomly different from the original and thus unlikely to be reverted into the original watermark.
*


Looks like you're thinking "too digital". Good watermarks can be even detected if you decode your file and transmit it via FM radio. This is already done by some stations and gadgets exist that record 10 seconds of such a signal and tell you exactly which artist is singing what title -- 'cause that's what has been hidden in the signal (watermark).

Sebi
*



I don't think audio detection services use watermarks in the music to identify the metadata, as not all music is tagged with watermarks - they rather use database of music features (such as AudioID) and try to identify the clip by pattern similarity.

Some of these services even allow you to sing and they would try to identify what are you singing.
SebastianG
Sorry, I can't back this up (the FM station watermarking thing). My source might be inaccurate. A buddy told me he saw someone explaining this on TV.

Sebi
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