I had a Cowon Iaudio X5 but it got stolen, so I am looking for a new DAP player. I liked everything about the X5. But the new Creative Zen Vision has also got my attention now because of the brighter screen and touch pad. The only problem is that it doesn't support FLAC and I am an audiophile and have all my music in FLAC format. If I got the Zen Vision, I would have to compress everything to VBR or CBR. On the bright side of this though I probably could get my whole music collection on the unit and never have to switch out songs. On the down side of this is that it won't be FLAC quality. But then I was thinking, when I had X5 it sounded gtreat...but when lestioning to my DAP I am mostly on the go and it is always in noisey enviroments, so there is always background noise(like cars, people talking, ect.). With all the backgrounds noises from the enviroment, does it really make a difference when lestioning to a high quality FLAC or a lesser quailty CBR? Would I still be able to tell a difference?

I suggest getting a DAP that rockbox can run on.
http://www.rockbox.org/

Seriously, you wouldn't really feel big differences (Specially if you are into noisy enviroments.). Just look at the tests presented in Hydrogenaudio, those lossy codecs are extremely good. If you have you whole collection in FLAC, just transcode it to your DAP.

BUT a definitive answer is your ears. If you really feel so paranoid about it, just do some ABX tests. I just think its not worth all the hassle. Even if your files arent indistinguible from the original, the most important is that they will sound really good.

the big advantage for FLAC on a portable I think is in not having to transcode to get music on to it. whether that outweighs the disadvantages (file size, play time) is a personal thing.

Just to "me too" here: my collection is all in flac format on my hd, but I convert to mp3 "on the fly" when I move stuff to my player or my laptop (for listening at work).

I've never abx'ed using my earplugs, but I'm happy to have any music at all and ignorance is bliss, after all. :/

Mark

Indeed...
# Rockbox Active Development Targets:
* Archos
* iriver H110/H115/H120/H140
* iriver H320/H340
* iriver iFP790
* Apple iPod
* iAudio X5

Get one of them and you're laughing

I have a H120, but have seen both the iPods and X5 and if I had the choice now it would be a toss up between the H140 (so I can shove in a 60gb drive ) or the X5 -> loved the native usb facility it has.
But you what, the iPod now is a good decision* with Rockbox, so you'd be safe with any tbh.

Oh, and your "I am an audiophile and have all my music in FLAC format" maybe so (I too have my collection stored as flac), but (a) it takes up too much room on current sized DAPs for the amount of music I have, and (b) I cannot tell the difference between 98% of music when played back via FLAC when compared to LAME 3.97b2 '-V3 --vbr-new' or Ogg Vorbis '-q 4' --> the latter two offer substantial savings on space when compared to flac and make perfect sense for DAP use imo.

* never thought I'd say that!

Is FLAC really necessary in a DAP?

Not to me

FLAC isn't necessary to me... but I do like other features of Rockbox...

gapless is nice.... I listen to many different kinds of music and with some kinds it doesn't matter... but with others it is a must have for me... an example would be classical where movements are seperate tracks but flow continuously... this happens in many jazz and live albums to... but I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker just something that would elevate one player a little higher... (for me)

I just bought an iPod Photo 60GB -- with Rockbox on it supports gapless FLAC. (Plus you don't have to use iTunes to organize your music...)

Well, I appreciate all the suggestions but I will never, never, buy an Ipod....even with rockbox. At least not with thier models that exist right now. I've been thinking about it and compareing features of the X5 to the Creative Zen Vision and the X5 still has more features even though it's an older model, so I'm going to buy another Iaudio X5.

Yeah... Why be at one with the BMW sheep when you can have yet another Hyundai?


The other concern which is pretty obvious is that FLAC drains batteries. Personally I'm only considering using it as my home library is being built in FLAC and it's proving a mega-hassle to transcode in a transparent manner. Otherwise for portable use there is IMO no point, especially with a pair of budget headphones or any IEM.

The X5 is a current Rockbox target.

Lossless in a DAP is imho a waste of space. That's my opinion atleast.

I have rockbox on an iriver ihp-120 and love it. Not just for the many formats like FLAC and Wavpack, but the plethora of other features (games, themes, programs...) Rockbox also supports the current h300.

I'd also add that the Rio Karma Mp3 player plays FLAC and Ogg. The Karma is now discontinued though, and Rio's current offerings are probably not what your looking for.