Hello all music lovers,

I had this one in my head for a long time.

What do you think about adding custom tags (rating, last played, etc) into musix files?

It changes the integrity of file, CRC of the file changes, I can't verify my files are OK, file timestamp is changed, etc.

Do you like it or not? answer the poll please.

I think (according to poll-choice B.) every plugin should have an option to write tags into files or just database. Or even beter, foobar itself can have this GENERAL option and all tagging plugins will read this option and behave according to it. this is main idea of this post. we can discuss it here.

thanks for reading,

/haman

Surely, if you don't like a component writing tags to your files... don't install it?

Is this more a reaction to the fact that the database in 0.9 is now purely a cache, and will not store information that isn't written to the file?

The way I understood it, component writers can store information in the config, rather than the database, as the demo component foo_playcount demonstrates. NB: I haven't tested this, but read it on the forum.

I certainly wouldn't want my files being rewritten every time I played them; it seems like there is more opportunity for corruption there. However, my resolve would be to simply not use components that did this. I may use one that stored such information in the config file.

i looked on your post and then voted, reading only the poll question. thats why i voted for X (simply becouse question stripped of the post IS weird - sorry for not reading it firsth).
problem is simple or there is even no problem - tagging is ok as long, as user knows about it and can prevent program from doing that (for one file, temporary, or as an option)

My music is stored read-only on Reiserfs-formatted harddrives. Storing information in the config instead seems like a solution.


Does it work for large amounts of stored information?

While storing it in the config isn't a bad idea, I think it would actually be better (for safety's sake) if plugins stored all the data in a seperate file. I think someone mentioned that this would be possible, I don't know.

IIRC, the fact that the playcount for 0.9 stores info in config was for demonstration purposes only, and that the SDK provides methods to easily store tag data in any file. I could be wrong about this though (going off memory).

I agree that storing tag data in the config file isn't the best idea.

Here is foosion's post.

I took this to mean that the config file would be used, but this is not stated specifically. It makes logical sense that a component can choose any external method to store its information, be it the foobar config, a binary file, xml, or relational database (e.g.: MySQL).

I don't like plugins modifies my songs automaticly without any notice. something like Windows Media Player... it make me crazy, always modify my media files after played, because file date will changes and some application will tasted it as new/updated file...

I think all plugins should give an option to users such like "Automatic update file information" and default is OFF as well...

Of couse... I know some people maybe lazy to update media files manually, so, I usually suggest authors must add an option for this case, it should fit for all type of users.

Foobar2000 is good for me, because it didn't make any modifies to any files by default. even replay gain is by manual

The SFV gets messed up if you change the tags so NO THANKS, no changing!

there is a hope, i am working on it

mmkay, which plugin are you refering to? I've used quicktag to set rating on the tracks and if you mark "block tagupdate operations" in the databaseoptions in 0.8.3 you will get it to work... But now im using 0.9 so i dont know really if there is any option like that...

i am refering to a program that may appear someday, and which will be able to create tag-independent checksums

yes, that's what I do. but I'm missing the rating plugin which can store into database. do you or someone knows any? read my post about it here http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=16837 (post #47) and reply also there.

I didn't know this. so there is no database in 0.9? :( I should start a poll about "Please bring database back". <g>

config file. you mean foobar's config file or every plugin can have it's own config file?

/haman

Thanks for advice! I tested the "block tagupdate operations" in 0.8.2 and it works! so foobar 0.8.x is fixed for me. PlayCount and Rating plugins write tags only into database. files not tampered.

but the foobar 0.9 is problem. no database.

/haman

I keep an exact mirror of my files. So if they get rewritten on every play they will also get re-copied everytime I do a backup. No thanks. Once they are filed into the proper directories nothing should modify them except me doing it manually. If a plugin modifies the tags I won't use it.

you mean a new sfv checker app? if you do so it would be really nice because there is a lot of mp3s that has fucked up id3tags but you cant change it becuase then you cant share it etc.

i'm really sad because of the way 0.9 beta went. i understand that it's ok for quite a few users but there are others that do not want their files modifed.

as for sfv files and scene releases, of course you could create mp3-crcs (taking into account only mp3 frames; between first and last mp3 header), ignoring tags and other stuff - using special programs like 'MP3 Vaccinator'. you would end up with files not sfv-correct to the original sfv file though, and you won't be able to trade these files with ppl interested only in 100% correct scene stuff.

all interests aside, i think that there simply *should be* way to prevent tag changes foobar-wide.

Just set the music files to read only....

Thats fine until you want to manually change a tag yourself. Fact is an app shouldnt be altering my files without me knowing about it. Shouldn't have to make them read only. If a program will modify my tags automatically and not give me the option to stop it I won't use it. I think even iTunes gives you that option. Not everyone cares about playcounts and ratings.

Adding a tag update block option won't prevent malicious / badly written components from altering your files anyway, at least as long as all components are native code and not sandboxed inside a .NET virtual machine or something like that (which won't happen anytime soon for multiple reasons).
Adding a special switch to keep users from shooting themselves in the foot is a step backwards; people's components should be designed in a way that makes it obvious at which point tag updates take place, and give an option to cancel the operation before any harm is done.

I agree. Now that non-database tags are easily supported through the SDK, I think this whole issue will become less of a problem.

peter, i respect your opinion, however - do you realize, that i may for example want to change rating of a song or change some tags (temporarily - only for display in foobar), not changing the original files? for some of this cases, yes, there could be special plugin that would work with off-the-files database, but from my point of view that's simply quite some overhead for things, that could be easily done just with blocking tag updates.

yes, there are types of information which shouldn't be stored using tags in the files at all time, like playcount etc., which can be implemented by special plugins ...

your point that badly written components can still modify our files is valid, though the logic behind it doesn't ring the bell - you could use that logic for saying we shouldn't run any 3rd party program unless we run it in virtual pc.

it's all about trust, experience and the chance of choice. i would like to have a *choice* to disable all tag updates on foobar api's side. one thing less to worry about.

I agree. Such a feature was / would be useful in some cases. I don't think you should remove features just because they have the potential to be misused.

You don't remove the Play button just because some people will use it to listen to McFly, do you?

Really wish it kept it's own database and left the file untouched.

How about the playback statistics text file in the track directory idea? Best of both worlds (sort of).

Well, I have to admit we haven't thought of that yet. Thank you for this excellent idea! While we're at it, we will remove MP3 support, since tagging it is a mess, and people use it to pirate music. Shorten will become the recommended format for everyone who cares about audio file checksums: Shorten does not support tagging at all, so foo_input_shorten writes all tags to external files, thus the audio files stay unchanged under all circumstances.

I was just trying to make a joke. I guess it didn't work.

I believe so was foosion , i r o n y, his bold letters.

Word! Couldn't have written it better myself