Hi,

currently I'm using the onboard soundchip (C-Media 9739A) of my motherboard and I'm mainly dissatisfied with the lack of proper EM shielding: I can actually hear the bus noise when I set the volume high enough. BTW, it's funny how some programs make noises while I'm using sliders and scrolling in lists and so on while others are quiet when I do those things...

So the first priority for a new sound card is that it is quiet and not noisy on the analog output and of course that it's really silent when it comes to electromagnetic crosstalk. As I want a PCI-card this might still be an issue with some cards. That's why I'm asking here what I can expect of a low-end card. I want no buzzing and chirping when I turn up my amp's volume, the days when I enjoyed listening to digital data from a datassette made audible by a fast loader on my C64 are over.

So I rely on good analog output specs since my (stereo) amp is analog, but extra digital out would be fine nevertheless, because maybe I will get me an external DAC some day. So in case there are still "pure" or crippled analog sound cards out there, I don't want one of those.

Also the analog input and ADCs should be "usable" and not be a POS, since I like to record from TV/Tape/Vinyl. I'd prefer cards that won't clip, and which's pre-amp input levels are actually adjustable. If that's impossible to get for less than 100€ then so be it, no real gain control can't be worse than my current onboard soundchip.

Well, digital out, 24bit/at least 96kHz and surround capabilites are standard anyway I think, and even the cheapest cards support it (if not the card itself then at least the chipset).

Hardware acceleration for gaming is not important at all.

But another thing that is a must is good Linux support and good Windows support also. I say this because the Windows drivers for my current audio chip aren't the best, handling surround input makes then crash sometimes as do some games, also the look and feel of the interace is very sloppy. So useful (!=fancy/emberassing/gadgetery 3D effects and sound enhancements) and stable additional software and driver archetecture/interface plus Linux-friendly attitude is a absolut must, too.

Because of compatibility concerns I'll tell you what my mainboard and chipset is, since some sound cards seem to have a hard time on the PCI bus (btw, I don't get no dropouts at all with my onboard s/c):

MSI 865PE Neo2 (old one, revision 1), NB: Intel 865PE SB: Intel ICH5.
2x SATA hard drives (no raid).
I got no extra PCI cards installed, btw. Only an AGP gfx card.

Thanks in advance...

You'll find quite a few people who recommend the Chaintech AV-710 here. I'm sorry I didn't read your entire post, but from the title of your post, that's what you're looking for. You could have searched a bit, too.

Are the AV-710's ADCs any good?

I haven't seen a post on this forum where someone said anything _bad_ about the AV710.

It uses the VIA chip for ADC so it is no better than any other cheapo card or integrated.

So every card which uses the Envy24HT-S has the exact same input specs? And therefore the pre-amp is also integrated in the Envy24HT-S?

I am not sure if it good Linux support is available, but Creative Sounblaster Live! 24 bit meets all of your other requirements. It's very low cost. It has very good ADC/DAC performance(depending on the combination of sample mode settings used), but to get very good quality recordings, you need to do so in either 48kHz or 96kHz mode(Note: you must select the rate you will be using in the special control panel option that the creative drivers installed in control panel). Note: I have had the Soudblaster produce up to about 99dB SNR(loopback) in a computer with a high quality PS and a high quality Abit mobo(maybe has better filters on the board?), but I've had results as poor as 93dB SNR(which is still good) on a cheap Compaq with the same card. I've never noticed audible noise from the soundcard.

I don't believe that the AV-710 is a good option compared to what you can get in place of it now for about the same price. It can do good playback, assuming that you can find a driver version that is stabile on your computer. I tried both the AV-710 and Live! 24 bit, and frankly, the Creative card was vastly superior in stability and user controls IME. The Creative card also has 96/24 recording; if you need such. The AV-710 has no such feature.

-Chris

Below 100 €? Heck, might as well get an X-Fi Xtreme Music. Seriously, it has a good sound quality. I don't know about Linux compatibility, but drivers under Windows aren't as bad as they used to be. You can just install the driver package from the Creative site and leave out all the bells & whistles of the driver CD.

I have M-Audio Audiophile 2496. I think it is in your range. As far as I remember it has very good analogue spec and well regarded. It is only stereo though in the analogue domain (input/output). Having said that I use the digital output hence I have surround sound.

My media PC is Windows based (unlike my everyday internet-connected PC), but sometimes I boot knoppix on it for backup. Knoppix not just recognises it, but the it works out of the box. Sometimes I forget to switch off my amp and I hear the Knoppix greeting. So Linux compatibility looks OK.

Triza

M-Audio Audiophile is also bit perfect. Does not resample. Chaintech is usually bought by folks, who only need a bit perfect digital output. As far as I remember the analogue output is not so good. I am not sure, though.

Triza

I can also recommend the Audiophile 2496. I also get annoying noise and interference from the onboard sound chip, but the Audiophile is a nice, quiet card. The quality is superb, and it works great for me, both in Windows (XP) and Linux (Debian sid).

Absolutely no linux support at all.
AFAIK, every single envy based soundcard has fair Linux support, so most M-Audio cards have. The only problem is that non-audiophile ones need software mixing with swmix and cannot mmap. It's no problem for most Linux apps, though I personally have issues with some quake 3 based games and wine. The quake 3 problem is just because of its crappy oss usage and wine's problem is mmap and hardware acceleration related, it cannot bear heavy loads in some apps (foobar2000 v0.9).
Related topic


Is this soundcard mmap-able and does it support regular Master sound volume changing? I would really like to know. I had to develop a volume changing frontend for my revolution 7.1 to simulate a Master volume.

Thx for the many replies. Here's a list with all the cards you mentioned plus some more I'm considering to have a look at:

Sound Blaster Live! 24-bit
Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic
M-Audio Audiophile 2496
M-Audio Audiophile 192
E-MU 0404

Some of these cards have extra features I don't really need (so far ), like MIDI I/O. But since I did some sequencer-based music a few years ago as a hobby-project I might want to get into that again, so cards that are beyond the consumer class but still not too expensive are ok, too.

Also I've managed to come up with a much more readable list of must-haves:

• good EM shielding and no PCI-collision issues
• good analog input (high quality ADCs / no clipping)
• at least 24bit/96kHz analog (also for input)
• no resampling or whatsoever (my onboard-sound produces echos in the upper frequencies at certain sampling rates...)
• good Linux support and also stable Windows drivers (there are open source drivers for the SB's EMU chips btw, but I'm not sure if the latest SB cards are supported)

If anyone knows of an online magazine that have objective soundcard tests, where they actually measure the analog in and outputs and check for resampling and bit-perfectness and things like that, please tell me.

Ah, the Envy chip is separate from the ADC/DAC chip. Envy is just a 'controller' kind of chip. In addition to those, the card has a good quality Wolfson stereo DAC (which is the sole reason for the card's popularity).

Thank you for the clarification, I always assumed that the DAC/ADCs are seperate, but I wasn't sure.

Don't forget the ESI Juli@. It's solid and good value.

Thank you! I remember reading a review about that card in the c't magazine a while back. You can turn round the board by 180° and mount the backside to the PCI slot bezel.

EDIT: Yay, I found the old article (in german): c't 8/05, S. 114. 13 consumer and semi-pro cards including actual sound quality test results.

Btw, this was the last big test the c't made... it's over a year old. That's one of the reasons why I made this thread here... many sound cards are missing in that test.

If you want good quality Analog In and Analog Out with support on bit-perfect digital out for your music experience, I recommend EMU 0404.

If you want a good all rounder, SB X-Fi Extreme Music. But you will lose the music playback quality of EMU 0404.

Having read your post, I would almost like to recommend the M-Audio Transit USB which I use for my connection to my hi-fi, but alas I believe that Linux support may be rubbish. Ive got osx on an ibook and though it is very different from Linux, somehow the drivers or something causes the card to stutter and/or prone to repeat the last bar over and over again. However, I have not heard this problem from windows users. It has a good and silent output, even when coupled with inner ear monitors, no audible hiss is discernable, less even so than any portable mp3 player I have heard. It has 24/96 in and out digital and analogue. AC3 compatible 5.1 channel for DVD decoders, but no surround otherwise. It is great, but if you do not care for usb soundcards then I do not recommend it and of course, I have no idea about Linux compatibility. It sells for about 60-70 euro no. Cheers.

Creative cards have great support in Linux(hw mixing et all), but the Audigy 2 series resample(AFAIK, the ADC's are pretty crappy too), and the X-Fi isn't supported. The ALSA-devs are working on support for the EMU-cards, and the X-Fi-series, but it might take a while as Creative doesn't want to cooperate.
Some envy24-based card would probably be your best bet. See http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/index...ndor=All#matrix for more info.

@Hamman: Thx for this invaluable info!