I have been asked by a family member to transfer his LPs to digital files. However, currently we do not own an amp with a phono input. I have suggested we buy a dedicated phono pre-amp (i.e. instead of using an old amp), but when searching I found a USB audio capture device called the Terratec Phase 26 USB. Apparently this device includes a phono-pre amp and RIAA circuit. I am wondering if anyone has had experience with this, or a similar device?

The soundcard in my computer is a Chaintec 710, which I thought would be adequate for the capture job. But I'm wondering now if the TerraTec unit may be a simpler option, because the conversion to digital is performed external to the computer, and thus could avoid certain interference caused by the soundcard being inside the PC?

I have found one Australian website listing the TerraTec USB unit for AUD$328 (about US$255). Does this seem like a good deal, or should I just spend the same amount, or less, on just a stand alone phono pre-amp? I want to buy something new, because I'm concerned that if I buy something second hand it will be in poor condition.

Any advice will be appreciated.

For recording phonograph records, there is no advantage to an external sound card. While it might be possible for some external soundcards to be a bit quieter due to their isolation, this is not a given. Many PCI soundcards have a very low noise floor. Most soundcards have a noise floor so much lower than LP surfaces that there is no soundcard noise issue.

However, USB soundcards in particular, when they are bus powered, can be among the noisiest. This probably does not apply to many USB cards, but the noisy ones do exist. Also, USB has a limited bandwidth. This may mean you are limited to 16 bit, 44.1 or 48kHz. That isn't necessarily a problem for LP recording, but 24 bit recordings have some advantages if you intend to do much post recording cleanup.

Depending upon the cartridge and the phono preamp, the output signal may be some distance from optimum for recording. It may either need to be amplified further or attenuated. This is commonly done with a mixer but any line level preamp with volume control will work.

One might presume that this integrated device would be reasonable well matched, phono output to USB input, but your cartridge is still a variable. Unless this integrated device also includes some way to control signal level (not a good assumption) you may have difficulties because you would be unable to stick a mixer between the preamp and soundcard sections.

All this to say I see no advantage to a combined device. If you have a soundcard with a decent line level input, use that. Phono preamps are still pretty common. Some are very expensive, but many receivers still have decent phono preamp sections. It may be possible to get a used one for much less than this USB device, although both a receiver and a stand alone phono preamp may still need a mixer for signal level control.

how comes?

USB 1 allows only a very limited rate of data transfer, whether it is used for audio or anything else. That's why there is now USB 2. It is possible to do two channels at 24/96 one way (not duplex) on USB 1, but not all programs will work with that and many USB 1 soundcards don't even provide the possibility. There are a few USB 2 soundcards on the market now but I believe they are all much more expensive and oriented towards professional recording needs.

Does that answer the question or are you really asking something else?

Thanks for the replies. As far as I know the device includes a RIAA circuit, and Analog to Digital converter (up to 24 bit 96 Khz, not that that is necessary) so the signal is encoded to digital then sent to the PC over USB. It is listed here on TerraTec's website here. Here is the image of the front:



I'm starting to think that my Chaintech 710 is probably good enough for 16 bit 44.1 Khz stereo capture, and that I should just spend AUD$200 - $300 on a stand alone phono pre-amp. I just thought that the TerraTec box may simplfy things by performing the conversion external to the PC.

lower speed should mean more time to transfer, probably not realtime, but i don't see a problem on what to transfer, unless you are refering to realtime.

I can see such a device as convenient, but that is about all - it may eliminate some extra gear around the PC required to use a turntable as input, which has some value.

I have digitized several of my remaining 500+ LPs, but overall deem the effort to be barely worth the considerable time required to 1. babysit the recording 2. edit the results into useful tracks 3. eliminate the egregious noise.

I used a regular soundcard for some, and a Griffin iMic USB device for others (it was more convenient to move a laptop to the turntable, ergo the iMic for input). As mentioned above, the absolutely terrible noise floor of vinyl renders issues of soundcard noise moot.

I am older than most on this forum (47 years) and grew up with LPs, buying several thousand, along with many turntables, tonearms and cartridges. I have absolutely no fondness or nostalgia for that wretched format, all I recall are endless struggles to listen to music that was clear and reasonably noise-free. The so-called "warmth" of the format is a mechanical artifact of no value. God bless Nyquist's theorem!

Unless the LP in question is rare and utterly unavailable in digital form, don't bother to digitize it. Much, much better to spend a few bucks and get the real thing.

recording is always realtime

If you dislike the process, then doing LP transfers will be a drag. However, it is an enjoyable experience for quite a large number of people. Aside from that, there can be a major cost difference: you already own the music vs you have to purchase a new CD at premium prices. Also, while a great deal of music has been reissued on CD, it is quite often remastered to modern aesthetic standards which may mean a very different, and possibly less enjoyable, mix and too often means reduced dynamic range and over compression.

I don't know what your approach was like, but I have never seen a need to 'babysit the recording' and separating into tracks seems a very simple process. However, depending on the condition of the LP, and your goals, cleaning up the recording can be a considerable undertaking. On the other hand, some people are satisfied with virtually no processing and others with the easy to do, virtually automatic, processing of a few lower end programs.

Amen, brother!

In the last 20 years I have found very, very few examples of CDs that sounded "worse" than corresponding LPs. The LP format frequently required large amounts of compression due to limited dynamic range available, while CDs are permitted much greater range, of course.

If one is simply fond of the sound of some recording on LP, then so be it. I fully agree that capturing that on CD is then the right thing to do. When I find that album, I will be sure to make note of it - but I haven't found it yet

As to "babysitting", what I meant was the observation and tasks required to play an LP in a fashion appropriate for archiving. I always have had manual turntables, so that means I must: 1. clean the LP 2. clean the needle 3. Keep one finger on the "record" button while I drop the tonearm into the groove 4. Repeat step 3 when that goofs up 5. Tiptoe away from the turntable lest it be jarred by my footsteps 6. Tell my family to KEEP AWAY from the turntable while it plays so they do not jar it 7. Observe the needle periodically to be sure that no fuzz or dust has appeared 8. Stop the recording at the end of side (1) 9. Turn the LP over to side (2) and repeat.

Splitting an LP into tracks may or may not be so easy. Many LPs have "gapless" tracks (Pink Floyd, anyone?) that you must guess at if you wish to duplicate them, and many LPs have enough surface noise to throw off automatic gap detection schemes.

Add it all up, and you may spend 1.5 hours getting a 42 minute LP converted to CD. If you have 1.5 hours with nothing else you would rather do, and if you normally earn less than $7/hour, then this is definitely worth it. But hey, I am an older fellow and my paycheck buys several CDs per hour, so my incentive is low.

I do agree that some people find this all to be fun and relaxing. God knows I am all for that, though personally I no longer get a kick out of digitizing LPs

It seems that the TerraTec box doesn't perform the RIAA correction in hardware. Rather it is performed using a software filter once the files are on a computer. So I'm really starting to think the benefits are out weighed by the disadvantages. Also, it doesn't seem that the box can capture at 16 bit 44.1 KHz, the lowest sampling rate it can use is 48 KHz. Which isn't exactly ideal when CD Audio is the intended destination format.

Apart from transfering my parents LPs, I am interested in purchasing some new vinyl. For example one of my favourite bands are releasing their new album on audiophile quality vinyl, hence it is probably going to be a lot better than the CD version (see here). So I think there will be a few cases where I will start buying new vinyl if it means I can get access to better mastering.