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pepoluan
My company is considering to buy a 'proper' backup system.

Currently all we do is to get the server offline every 2nd weekend, and do a HD-to-HD copy. This is quite enough, since we have RAID5 configuration, so no fear of 0day data damage there (barring our building burnt down in a fire, of course).

But we are thinking of installing a proper backup system, using tape/optical/DVD/whathaveyous.

So, can you share and/or recommend a backup system? Hardware and software.

Inputs greatly welcomed. I have 1 week to formulate a plan here...

Edit: The server uses Windows Server 2003. We are ready to throw whatever memory and hard disk needed at it. We have no plans, not even the slightest hint, to change to Linux. Not now. Not tomorrow. Not ever. So, Linuxers, spare me your "Windows Sux!" rants. biggrin.gif

rjamorim
How much data are you going to backup in each backup run, average?
pepoluan
QUOTE(rjamorim @ May 16 2006, 21:18) *
How much data are you going to backup in each backup run, average?
Currently under 1 GB, but we expect it to grow to about 4 GB by the end of year, and perhaps to 10 GB next year.
CiTay
Sounds like you need a professional solution with a tape streamer. There are many different types, DDS-5, AIT-Turbo, VXA, SLR... you need to compare streamer prices and tape prices. The streamers also come in different varieties, SCSI internal/external, IDE, USB2...

The best backup strategy then is another story. One advice, the backup programs included with the streamers aren't so good (Yosemite...). Nero BackIt Up! works well and is pretty reliable.
PiezoTransducer
I'm a home user myself, so... yeah... for each system, I'd consider:
1) cost of equipment and setup = A1
2) cost of media per gigabyte = A2
3) cost of time for each gigabyte = A3
4) cost of storage space per gigabyte = A4

Attach a normalized, personal weight to each one (B1...B4), and then draw some curves (cost vs gigabytes). The last time I looked things up, for me... I wouldn't go to tape backups until the ~500gigs.

cost = A1*B1 + gigs(A2*B2 + A3*B3 + A4*B4)

A system I tried at my dad's office was a 300 gig Network Attached Storage (NAS), with backups split DVD-5 sized. Backing up to the NAS was automated, and whenever I got around to it, I would burn a set to DVD. With this system you can also backup multiple machines.

edit: math added, tyopos
CiTay
One single backup device isn't gonna cut it for professional purposes. Also, it's not good if it's reachable via LAN (then a virus/trojan could access it too), unless it's turned off right after each backup. Of course you could buy 3 or 5 external hard disks and figure out a backup strategy with differential backups where you could make a full restore for each backup day (BTW, a rule for backups, you have to test in regular intervals if the restore actually works).
pepoluan
CiTay: Nero BackItUp... is it schedulable? Runs on Windows Server 2003? How about system resource usage? We got a dual-Opteron server with 2 GB RAM enough?

Note: Server does not stream anything. It's database & intranet apps. We have another dedicated 'media server'.

Piezo: NAS?

Our backup strategy will be simple actually. Daily Incremental (Mon to Sat) + Weekly Full (Sun), Full Copy every second Sunday (or perhaps every 4th Sunday, we'll see).
PiezoTransducer
QUOTE(pepoluan @ May 16 2006, 23:12) *
Piezo: NAS?


Network Attached Storage. Sorry for the TLA (three letter acronym). I use the term really loosely to mean any storage space accessable over a network.

I kind of like Nero BackItUp too. Because you can set it to make DVD ISO images. I don't really use the scheduling function but it's there. And depending on the settings, you can retrieve data off the backups without having to install anything. I've used Ghost to make backups too, but you have to backup the entire partition.

Which reminds me, another really ghetto way of doing backups is by creating split RARs (or ZIP or something). You can do incremental and full backups using software you already have around and with no background applications. And scriptable too if you use the command line version and schedule them using the built in Windows Task Scheduler.

And CiTay brings up a good point. You gotta test the backup system. My mom's machine got infected with a ton of stuff, and even though I know she had a very recent backup, I didn't use it because I never tested it before. I ended up booting into a Preinstallation Environment and cleaning it out the hard way.
pepoluan
QUOTE(PiezoTransducer @ May 17 2006, 16:50) *
Which reminds me, another really ghetto way of doing backups is by creating split RARs (or ZIP or something). You can do incremental and full backups using software you already have around and with no background applications. And scriptable too if you use the command line version and schedule them using the built in Windows Task Scheduler.
Hmmm, not a bad idea.

But we want it to be unattended, i.e. let the backup be written onto a media, and the next day we just seal off the media and hand it to our courier to store offsite.

CiTay
QUOTE(pepoluan @ May 17 2006, 06:12) *

CiTay: Nero BackItUp... is it schedulable? Runs on Windows Server 2003? How about system resource usage? We got a dual-Opteron server with 2 GB RAM enough?


Yes / Yes / normal / more than


QUOTE
Note: Server does not stream anything. It's database & intranet apps. We have another dedicated 'media server'.


Oh boy, good thing you asked us first. rolleyes.gif A streamer has nothing to do with online streaming of A/V media. A streamer is called a streamer because it collects all data into a stream and writes it sequentially onto magnetic tape. You might know it as a tape drive. This method is around since the stone-age of computers, but in a professional environment, it's probably still the best and most reliable way to do backups.


QUOTE
Our backup strategy will be simple actually. Daily Incremental (Mon to Sat) + Weekly Full (Sun), Full Copy every second Sunday (or perhaps every 4th Sunday, we'll see).


Then you definitely need a streamer, preferably with 8 or 9 tape cartridges. Cartridge use as follows:

Sunday full backup - Cartridge 1
Monday incremental - Cartridge 2
Tuesday incremental - Cartridge 3
Wednesday incremental - Cartridge 4
Thursday incremental - Cartridge 5
Friday incremental - Cartridge 6
Saturday incremental - Cartridge 7


Sunday full backup - Cartridge 8
Monday incremental - Cartridge 2
Tuesday incremental - Cartridge 3
Wednesday incremental - Cartridge 4
Thursday incremental - Cartridge 5
Friday incremental - Cartridge 6
Saturday incremental - Cartridge 7


Sunday full backup - Cartridge 1
Sunday complete backup - Cartridge 9
Monday incremental - Cartridge 2
Tuesday incremental - Cartridge 3
Wednesday incremental - Cartridge 4
Thursday incremental - Cartridge 5
Friday incremental - Cartridge 6
Saturday incremental - Cartridge 7


Sunday full backup - Cartridge 8
... etc.


Cheap but good streamers start at around 500 Euros, cartridge prices depend on capacity and on the streaming technology.

BTW, if you do differential backups, you only need 4 cartridges:

Sun full - C1
Mon diff - C2
Tue diff - C3
Wed diff - C4
Thu diff - C2
Fri diff - C3
Sat diff - C4

Sun full - C2
Mon diff - C1
Tue diff - C3
Wed diff - C4
Thu diff - C1
Fri diff - C3
Sat diff - C4

Sun full - C1
Mon diff - C2
Tue diff - C3
Wed diff - C4
Thu diff - C2
Fri diff - C3
Sat diff - C4

Sun full - C2
...etc
pepoluan
QUOTE(CiTay @ May 17 2006, 20:28) *
QUOTE
Note: Server does not stream anything. It's database & intranet apps. We have another dedicated 'media server'.


Oh boy, good thing you asked us first. rolleyes.gif A streamer has nothing to do with online streaming of A/V media. A streamer is called a streamer because it collects all data into a stream and writes it sequentially onto magnetic tape. You might know it as a tape drive. This method is around since the stone-age of computers, but in a professional environment, it's probably still the best and most reliable way to do backups.
What I meant was this server is not used for multimedia data, only for database & intranet apps. Those who want to play music files access another server, which also has a streaming "intra-office radio"...

Well, anyways, I forgot the proper term whether it's Incremental or Differential... you know, backing up every new/changed things since the last full backup. But that's the strategy.

I don't quite understand the strange (to me anyway) tape-rotation strategy for the 4 Cassette schedule. Let me try this:
* Use tape 1 for full, 234 for diff
* Use tape 2 for full, 134 for diff
* repeat

Did I get that right?

And what brand of streamer do you suggest? Any personal experience/recommendation?

Edit: Why not follow through with 3 full 124 diff, 4 full 123 diff, and repeat?
CiTay
QUOTE(pepoluan @ May 17 2006, 22:41) *

Well, anyways, I forgot the proper term whether it's Incremental or Differential... you know, backing up every new/changed things since the last full backup. But that's the strategy.


Incremental means: You backup the things that changed or have been added since the last full or incremental backup. To restore a backup, you need the last full backup and the incremental backups in order.

Incremental backups are fast and need little space. But you need more cartridges.


Differential means: You backup the things that changed or have been added since the last full backup. To restore a backup, you need the last full backup and the last differential backup.

Differential backups are slower and need more space, cause with each differential backup, you also save the changes again that are already included in the last differential backup, plus any new changes. But you need less cartridges and you can restore it more easily. (DON'T FORGET: Test the restore function!)


QUOTE
I don't quite understand the strange (to me anyway) tape-rotation strategy for the 4 Cassette schedule. Let me try this:
* Use tape 1 for full, 234 for diff
* Use tape 2 for full, 134 for diff
* repeat

Did I get that right?


Yes.

QUOTE
Edit: Why not follow through with 3 full 124 diff, 4 full 123 diff, and repeat?


You can do that, doesn't really matter.


QUOTE
And what brand of streamer do you suggest? Any personal experience/recommendation?


Brand is rather unimportant, it depends more on the streaming technology, DDS-5, AIT-Turbo, VXA, SLR and so on. Those four are probably the most common. I can't give you a specific advice there, there are too many differences. Just check some prices and features.
pepoluan
QUOTE(CiTay @ May 18 2006, 04:10) *
QUOTE
Edit: Why not follow through with 3 full 124 diff, 4 full 123 diff, and repeat?
You can do that, doesn't really matter.
Whew. Thanks. I thought there's something evil with tapes 3 & 4 biggrin.gif

QUOTE(CiTay @ May 18 2006, 04:10) *
QUOTE
And what brand of streamer do you suggest? Any personal experience/recommendation?
Brand is rather unimportant, it depends more on the streaming technology, DDS-5, AIT-Turbo, VXA, SLR and so on. Those four are probably the most common. I can't give you a specific advice there, there are too many differences. Just check some prices and features.
About the technology's longevity (i.e. storage time AND availability of new media carts in the future), any recommendation? Let's assume that money is not a problem (lack of money is a problem, but let's consider that non-issue right now wink.gif )

Edit: Add the word "technology's" there.
CiTay
Storage longevity of tape cartridges is excellent, you can expect 30 years if stored properly.

DDS-5 is cheap, comes in many variants such as external USB, but very slow. AIT-2 Turbo is Sony's alternative to DDS on the low-cost market, it's faster but still cheap. I think in your case i'd prefer that. SLR is more professional, SCSI only, but with the highest reliability. You should also look at DLT, also highest reliability, even comes with SATA interface.
pepoluan
Okay, thanks for the pointers guys. I'll hunt around for the solutions. Not sure if all of them are available in my city. But at least I can tell my boss that everything being considered. smile.gif
Sunhillow
The company where I work uses IBM TSM (Tivoli Storage Management). It supports a wide area of tape robots, drives or even disk based backup.
I really like its backup strategy. There are only incremental backups, and you may define how many versions of each existing or deleted files you want to keep. It uses a SQL database to keep track of all backed up files, so it needs a bit more of processing power than the more "simple" backup products.
Another disadvantage is that it is a bit more expensive, but this depends on the number of nodes you want to backup. And if backup volume will grow faster than you thought, you can keep it and only switch to other storage hardware.
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