Here I am.. going to ask a bunch of questions.. or I plan to, they might not all surface in my brain this time thru.

All I use is MP3, because that's what's practicle for me. But I would like to learn about the MPC format and it's ups and downs and all that.

So..
1. how is it better or worse then other formats?
2. what are these alt-presets I keep hearing mentioned? Something to do with VBR, but what?

And what do you know.. I forgot my other questions..lol.

I prefer MPC to MP3 for the following simple reasons:
1. faster encoding time
2. same or better quality
3. lower bitrate

If you're looking for transparency in a lossy audio codec, MPC is one of the best.

It's worse, because there's not much hardware support yet, but I'm sure that will change. The cream always rises to the top.

The alt-presets are options for encoding MP3s with the LAME codec. They produce VBR MP3s of very high quality.

About MPC see here:
http://www.audiocoding.com/wiki/index.php?page=MPC

The designgoal of MPC was to sound transparent at the standard setting (ca. 150 - 190kbps) for every piece of music you throw at it. In practice this goal has (almost) been met. There are very few samples which MPC fails to encode properly. All other lossy formats have more known problem cases. The downside is that not many people use MPC and thus support is limited. However the community is very active.

The "--alt-preset"s are a set of command line switches which have similar designgoals as mpc. They are not just an alias for a long line of switches but also trigger several code level tweaks which further improve quality. The most prominent one is "--alt-preset standard". The nature of the mp3 format imposes limits though, and some samples will never sound transparent even with these highly tweaked switches. More info: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....t=ST&f=15&t=203.

Note: do not use these switches with version 3.93 since they produce results inferior to version 3.90.2.

Personally I use MPC because it gives unbeaten quality at reasonable bitrates and can do some things other formats can't. (native replaygain support, gapless encoding, low CPU consumption, fantastic quality...)

First off, sorry for posting in the wrong forum.. I've been here about 100 times in the last few days and never saw anything beyond the top two areas.. oops!

Ok, let me rephrase.. pretend you are explaing to an idiot. :-) I'm not denese, but things don't always click right off..lol.

I have gotten that same description of the alt presets from several people, but what are they?

I use CDex and LAME, and the only explainations I get are with EAC.. which I do not/have not ever used.

Are they like (I have to use CDex for an example) where you can choose VBR, and then choose the quality of the VBR? As in 0, which is highest, and 9 which is lowest, along with several other variables? Or am I even farther off the track?

What do you mean by transparent?

A transparent clip is simply one that you can't tell any difference from the original source. So with an --alt-preset-standard mp3, if it's transparent then you won't be able to tell the difference between that and the original WAV file.

The alt-presets are just some preset switches... if in command prompt you would type something like:

lame --alt-preset standard "infile.wav" "outfile.mp3"

Command prompt? You have to do this thru DOS? Or what? Should I run away now before my brain explodes?

And ok, transparent I now understand. :-)

Nah, you don't have to use a command prompt, that's just for example.

I think EAC defaults to using the --alt-presets? I'm not sure... Haven't used CDex so I don't know about that either. Usually I just rip the tracks to WAV and use Razorlame and encode.

I think this is going to be a long and painful learning expirience.. and all for simple curiosity! Maybe those cats commit suicide to get away from this persistant feature of life?

MPC is always VBR. AFAIK there is no way to make it CBR. With MPC you choose a quality level and the encoder does the rest. For some reference settings go here. MP3 can be either VBR or CBR, but in a similar fashion to MPC, you select a quality level, and the encoder pops out a great MP3. For MP3 reference settings go here.

As was said earlier, if you're looking for transparency, standard for MPC and --alt-preset standard for MP3 should be your best choices.

Both codecs are command line, but there are plenty of frontends around. When ripping/encoding, I set up EAC to do it all in one go. If you're converting from WAV or to WAV, I like Speek's frontends. The top two progs will be for you, depending on which format you choose. And try out the multi frontend (at the bottom of the page) too.

The alt-presets are ready-made overall quality settings that are included inside the lame.exe
So you don't have to choose from many variables that can influence the sound, they are all taken care of by the preset. No need to mess around with individual quality settings, you just use --alt-preset standard and you know that the result will be as good as it gets at that bitrate.

Think of it like the program for pizza in the microwave, you don't have to select how many minutes and how many watts, it's preset for you! (ok, that's a stupid example but I just ordered a huge bacon pizza and it kind of made sense at the moment)
Did I make sense? I hope so, though I slightly doubt it!

Hmm.. After reading all this, it looks like I'm going to have to download EAC just so I can see what the heck you're all talking about! Because CDex doesn't have anything that says "alt-perset" or any simple choices once you choose VBR.... there are about 6 different options to choose....

Also, after reading some of the posts, do these files actually end up with an .mpc or an .mp3 extension, since they are using the same .mp3 software to create them? How do you tell them from an .mp3 id they do not show an .mpc extension?

If I were you I'd keep using CDex to rip (albeit just to WAV-files), and then RazorLame to encode.

I have a RazorLame package on my website whch has preset files which are mostly the --alt-presets. It's just a simple matter of loading the WAv's in, choosing an RLO preset file (aptly named to avoid confusion) and encoding.

My RazorLame package

I think --alt-preset standard is the third preset.

[QUOTE]do these files actually end up with an .mpc or an .mp3 extension, since they are using the same .mp3 software to create them? How do you tell them from an .mp3 id they do not show an .mpc extension?



Hope you got that now

Here's an easy guide for setting up MPC with EAC. link

in cdex:

press f4/click encoder/from encoder pulldown select lame engine/select '--alt-preset standard ' from the quality pulldown menu

- check if max bitrate is 320 and min 128 (i never got an explanation for this)
- check if the encoder is not 3.93, if it is download new version of cdex with older lame engine build in (or use an external encoder function).

thats about it

edit: I forgot the 'select encoder' step

Thank you! Thank you! :-) On my way to give it a try now and see what I thinks...

A ripping tutorial for EAC might be very useful.
SATCP's Tutorial for EAC is very good, very complete (maybe too complete ).
To integrate MPC encoding, either use Case's short tutorial (damn where is the link?)
, or use a different program (MPC Batch Encoder, search in google).
MP3 integration is tackled in SATCP's guide, but check you have a recent lame version.

>>>> There are also good all-in-one tutorials (EAC & MPC/MP3),
but watch out: many of them are out of date.
I have written a not too bad one myself (for EAC & MPC), although it is delicate to recommend something if you are the author


MOD: * no links or names to ripping group guides please.

Allow me to take a step back and sum up the pros/cons of MP3 vs MPC (most have been mentioned her and there already in this thread)


***MP3: older and much more popular. Hardware support (portable players).

***MPC: significantly better quality (above 160kbps), but no hardware support (yet).
(let's hope this will change as MPC will be opensource soon)

Most people who are about to decide ask themselves the question "are the quality benefits worth the lack of hardware support?"
Note that there are other good encoders too:
***Ogg vorbis (situated between MP3 and MPC when talking about both quality and hardware support which has just started).
***AAC (well what should I say about this one? comparable to MPC... better have a look at its forums here, in case you are interested)

Hmmm.... I assume the 3.93 is the engine and not the version, or is mine that far behind? (v.1.27, engine 3.92 alpha 1mmx)

Also, does the mpc option not appear until you have that particular build? Because all I see are my regular settings for ripping an mp3.... except when I do a VBR, it is between 160 and 320... my CBR rips are at 256.

Off to get a more recent version of LAME now.....

3.92 is fine (3.93 is not) (the new cdex was 'downgraded' with an older lame library since there were some problems with 3.93, yeah it is an engine version), lame is an mp3 encoder, mpc is a completely different format.

----------------------------
one example of cdex and mpc:

download http://www.saunalahti.fi/cse/mpc/encoders/...indows-1.14.zip (what u need is mppenc.exe)
unpack mppenc.exe to 'some place'

in cdex:
press f4/click encoder/from encoder pulldown select 'external musepack encoder'/click browse and select mppenc.exe from 'some place'

thats about it (encoder will run in default mode which is also recommended)

for playback with WinAmp 2.8 you will need a plug-in http://www.saunalahti.fi/cse/mpc/bin/in_mpc.exe
more info here http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....=ST&f=11&t=1927 (search for 'Recommended Winamp 2.x plug-in settings')

Now we're making more sence... sort of...

So my encoder is ok, I just need to get the musepack thingymabob, (downloading as I type) and stick it somewhere, then search out the mpc option?

Think I got it now..lol.

Here .

hehe, you don't skip a single thread

'Quick Draw' Case!