Following on from greynol's post here, this is a subject that has been grating me for a little while.

I have a Createn Zen Nano Plus, with Panasonic RP-HJE50 earbuds. I bought the buds after seeing them recommended on this board. However, I am really disappointed by the volume levels. Spookily enough I currently have MP3Gain open checking an album that is currently on my player, as I just find it too quiet to get the decent volume that I like (I know it's wrong, but I like it loud enough that I can't hear anything else).

The album has an album gain of 92.6dB. I just checked an album that does have adequate (not great) volume with these earbuds and it has an album volume of 97.5dB.

My point is: do I really have to raise all my albums to ~98dB and introduce even more clipping to be able to listen to them at a decent volume?

I should make the point that, when I first discovered how quiet the 'phones were I tried the Sony 'phones (not bud, just in-ear) from my minidisc, and the volume was a lot better - great in fact. Needless to say they packed up a week ago (dodgy wire).

I'm currently trying to decide whether to risk buying some more 'phones. I have no idea whether the volume level will be that of the Panasonic earbuds or the Sony in-ear. What should I look for as an indication?

Is it possibly my ear shape that is ruining the fit and lessening the joy? The feel pretty damn snug though...

I guess I would just be interested to hear from others who find their DAP too quiet, or anyone who has bought a budget pair (my wife would faint if I told her I wanted to spend more than £20 on some earphones, and she's six months pregnant so I can't do it to her ), and finds the volume a lot better/higher than previous 'phones. Is the Creative just a quiet player? As I say though, I have had success with the Sony phones (NB: the minidisc is quite old and I have no idea what the model of the 'phones is).

Any input appreciated.

Try silicon earpieces of another size (they are bundled with phones). I find my RP-HJE50 very loud (though I don't use ReplayGain or MP3gain at all).

Loudness depends on the impedence of your headphones. Eg. if your Panasonic are 50 ohm and the Sony are 16 ohm then the Sony will sound louder.

If you want cheap earbuds with decent and loud sound, you can grab JVC gumys in any Dixons. Though they tend to tire my ears after a long listening.

They are 16 Ohm, great for use with low-voltage portable players.

OK, I'll have to investigate what you mean by "silicon earpieces", but thanks for the tip. Confusing to hear that your RP-HJE50s are very loud, although I must admit that I'm not surprised. NB: I don't MP3Gain my MP3s on my Zen Nano - the values quoted, 92.6 and 97.5, are the original values. I am just wondering whether I may have to increase to ~98dB to be able to use my RP-HJE50's...

I did wonder whether impedence was the attribute I should be looking for. However, as Egor says, the RP-HJE50s are 16ohm, and it seems most in ear 'phones are.

Thanks, Ill investigate.

So what the hell is the problem? A 92.6dB album should not be so quiet at full volume that traffic noise is a real issue. NB: The Zen Nano has a volume scale of 0-25. With the Sonys 19 was a good volume.

FYI: this morning, following my plea to this board, I thought I ought to try the headphones (in-ear, not bud) that came with the player. First off, it's like trying to cram two furry, rock solid cherries in your ear; I have visions of a trip to A&E to remove them. That said the volume level is much better - I was down to 17. The sound is not good though, and the comfort thing is a major no-no, so my quest continues.

Does anyone have any experience with "silicon earpieces" with a DAP? Anyone else fancy the "JVC gumys"?

Any other thoughts?

'Silicon (or silicone) earpiece' is a soft round black nozzle of a canalphone that you put into ear canal. They are Small, Medium or Large. Medium-sized are on the phones by default, S and L are in the box and can be replaced manually.

You may be experiencing low volume due to low isolation caused by earpieces of inappropriate size.

Ah! Thank you.

Yes, I did wonder whether I am using the wrong silicon earpiece size. Unfortunately I appear to have lost the others... I think one of my kids probably ate them... It seems (quite obviously) that the fit is paramount with these canal 'phones. Given that yours are a good volume this is looking like the culprit; either my ears are the wrong shape or I'm on the wrong sized piece. They seem to fit well though. I believe that I have the largest size on, maybe, even though they are snug, they are not going deep enough... or perhaps the fit is not as good as I think it is...

Would spares fit on all canal 'phones? I.e.: are replacements generic, or brand-specific?

I remember someone saying Panasonic earpieces are similar and interchangeable with those of Sony MDR-EX71, but I didn't verified that fact.

RP-HJE50 should be pushed into ear canal slightly (not too far) just to seal canal like earplugs that can be found in a drugstore, if they do not seal the canal and just lay in an auricle like plain earbuds, they will not reproduce sound well.

Also, you should verify that the problem is not with the player itself - just try phones with other audio devices: home stereo, soundcard etc. It is as well possible (but the least possible) that your headphones are simply broken.

Good luck!

Thanks for your continuing help Egor.

I do have the 'phones shoved well and truely in my lugholes. They feel snug; I can hear myself swallow, chew, etc. I am wondering whether the silicon plugs are too big for my ears though.

They do seem fine when listening on a PC, but, again, I am testing now and the master volume is full up and it's just a good volume, not loud. I've just plugged in the Creative beasts and I would not dare turn up the volume over 60%, as it's already very loud. I would say that the Creatives at 50% are the same volume as the RP-HJE50s at 100%. Ooh, so uncomfortable; must remove.

Another point to make is that I seem to get very little bass. If I push the 'phones into my ears (i.e.: forcebly hold them further in by compressing my ear) I get decent bass, with a little better volume, but not much. The lack of bass, and the improved bass when I hold them in leads me to a fitting problem. Listening now the bass is really quite poor when just fit normally (I reiterate that they are still pretty damn snug though).

Trying the Creatives has at least made me realise just how comfortable the RP-HJE50s are!

Thanks again.

Wow. I have a MuVo Micro N200 (same thing as your's, different name), and I can't stand to listen to it at more than 15 on volume scale through my Senn' MX400's.

Unfortunately, your pair of phones seems to be broken .

I use Medium earpieces and just tried Small and Large at home and there is no significant drop in loudness - still cannot stand even half of the maximum loudness of my Panasonic SL-CT820 CD player.

Check the cord and the plug for damages and also check if they had been in washing machine.

Thanks for the info skelly831.

Egor, thanks a lot for testing for me. It does seem as though something is up with them. I was wondering how much difference a fit could make.

I haven't used them much, and they certainly haven't been through the wash. I can only put it down to a dodgy eBay buy. It seems weird to me that the only fault is low volume, although the lack of bass may also be a factor.

Thanks a lot for your time.

At least I feel a little more confident that a replacement will be an improvement. I have been worried that I may find the same problem with a new pair.

It may be more reliable to buy from your local dealer next time (if it's possible, of course).