I recently purchased Nero 7, which seems to have been a mistake. While it may be adequate for making data backups, it does not suit my needs when it comes to audio CDs.

Please help me. There are hundreds of applications out there and I don't know what really works. And I've gotten a lot of bad advice from well-intentioned novices.

These are the things I really need to have:

• DAO burning for improved reliability
• volume normalization or leveling
• ability to work with source files of various formats (WAV & MP3, mostly)
• ability to remove that 2-second gap between tracks!!!
• removal of any leading & trailing silence
• removal of silence in MP3s before they get burned
• ability to burn a live CD without gaps between tracks
• ability to specify gaps or no gaps between any specific pair of tracks
• ability to create MP3 music CDs

A lot of programs fail when it comes to managing the gaps between audio tracks. Nero appears to have the ability, but the feature is broken, as far as I can tell. From what I've read, it does nothing at all to remedy the silence inserted into MP3s as part of the format. And it certainly cannot handle an audio CD wherein some tracks have gaps between them while others do not (something I've heard only on commercially produced CDs).

I'm extremely frustrated and tired of spending money on software that doesn't really work.

I understand that there may not be a single package that does everything I want. But maybe there are a couple of applications that can do everything when used in combination?

PLEASE HELP!!!

You can disable the pause via the properties dialogue (open it via the context menu of the tracks).

You are recommended to send feedback to the developers.

This all can be done with EAC - Exact Audio Copy.

Should be possible to do with your Nero.

Nero does all this well; You just don't know how to use it. Read the manual, or ask a proper question, before flaming a piece of software.

Now then, if you don't like nero, you can use Burrrn. I do believe it is a freeware

I take it you own stock in the company?

Nero doesn't do this all well. The ability to clip off leading & trailing silent blocks is broken; a lot of people have reported it as so. Nero does not allow for differing gaps between tracks; if the gaps between all tracks aren't the same, the software resets all gaps to two seconds when burning is initiated. Even when all gaps are set to zero seconds, the software inserts 2-seconds gaps when burning. Nero does not remove the silence added to MP3s during the encoding process.

I've read the manual and followed the directions. I've read a lot of posts in a lot of forums. The features are broken in version 7, or they are not part of the software.

All that anger can't be good for your health. And I fail to understand how your personal attacks make a positive contribution to a public forum.



EAC is a wonderful ripping program, but I don't find it well suited for burning audio CDs. While you can edit a CUE sheet to change the additional 2-second gaps between songs (pregaps), there is no way to get rid of the silence added to all MP3 files as part of the encoding process (multiples of 588). Also, EAC does not provide for volume normalization just prior to burning; that is, if the files weren't normalized when encoded as MP3s, they're not going to be normalized when burned. If I was burning a mix of MP3 and WAV files, there would be no way to normalize themduring the burning process. Furthermore, even a casual inspection of EAC's interface shows the program really isn't geared for burning audio CDs. It's a fantastic ripper, however, and I use it exclusively.

MusicMatch Jukebox automatically converts MP3's into WAV files and normalizes all tracks just prior to burning. It can even get rid of the 2-second gap, as long as it does so for ALL tracks. But MusicMatch does not support DAO (technically, the option is available, but it is broken -- using it crashes the program). My experience is that audio CDs burned TAO have tracking problems in some CD players. Finally, since Yahoo bought the software, it hasn't been updated -- and it has a number of unresolved issues.

Hold on--EAC just crashed and locked up my drive.

How can you get EAC to burn other files that aren't wave or mp3?
How can you get EAC to remove silence from mp3s?

Here at HA we see Nero as a very useful and powerful tool but it is not without shortcomings and we understand that. Also the Nero devs usually anounce and discuss releases and updates of their software here and we appreciate the dialogue because it leads to positive results. You say you've read a lot of posts in a lot of forums (CDR related forums I presume), then those would be the appropriate places to ask the questions you have as it seems they are very well informed on the subject. I belive you are the one getting angry.

I don't know of any program that would do this, maybe I'am wrong but I'm quite sure that you need to edit that yourself (I didn't even realise that there is introduced silence)

Most of those things can be done through burrrn. You may need to create cue sheets but it can be done.


I think burrrn is specialised on audio CDs, but there are various other burning softwares that can do this. Again I might be wrong.



What does 'record' mean in this place, rip?

If you mean ripping, burrrn can't do this for you as it is no ripping software.


Well, EAC may suit most of those needs too but I have personaly never tried it's burning features.

If one needs to burn files that aren't mostly wavs and mp3s, he can decode them first to wavs using e.g. foobar2000.

That's easy too: first decode to wav, then edit with "Process wav..." command.

@teh roxxors. There are amazing software products from Roxio too, but you may experience difficulties if you work as a limited user.

I'm not interested in getting in an Internet fist fight over audio software. No disrespect intended, but I frankly do not care who is best friends with Nero developers. While I hope you have a long and productive relationship with them that only leads to an improved product line, the fact of the matter is that today their particular software package does not meet my needs and I am looking to find something else that does.

I do not recall reading that Nero was the official software of these forums and that discussions of other products was prohibited.

My posts have been quite civil and level-headed. I did not roll in here like some 13-year-old video gamer with "OMGNEROSUXXORSFKNRIPPOFF!!!"

I respect your relationship with Nero developers. At the same time, I am only interested in tracking down software to accomplish the goals I listed earlier. Please do not continue to attack me personally or shoo me off without bothering to discuss audio software.



I've used EasyCD Creator since before Roxio bought it. The last version I bought was 5, which did not carry over to Windows XP very well. I chose Nero over Roxio recently, because it was so very highly recommended. I don't doubt EasyCD Creator 8 still contains an enormous array of features, but I am dead-set on getting something that specifically addresses the features I listed above.

Not to say that you would do this, but many people will recommend software out-of-hand, without really paying attention to the features someone is needing. I think that is what landed me in this predicament in the first place.

Foobar2000 sounds like good software -- there's even a forum here for it. But apparently it lacks volume normalization/leveling features, which makes making a mix CD tough.

MP3 Workshop is supposed to handle narmalization, but it's really out-of-date. It hasn't been updated since 2001.

MP3Trim is supposed to cut out the silence added to MP3s during encoding. I've not read enough recommendations to be convinced it is worth the price.

Fuerio! is used by some folks, but I don't know if it addresses my needs.

dbPowerAmp is part of several commercial packages, but it, too, seems limited in scope and should be included as part of a unified audio suite.

The great frustration is the abbreviated feature sets developers list for their software, expecting consumers to happily part with their money based on a few bulleted highlights. I cannot get a good grasp of what these various packages do from their respective web sites. This is why I'm appealing to end-users who have spent time with a number of applications and know their capabilities.

If the developers of nero are so damn responsive, why do they still make their users jump through hoops to remove the additional 2 seconds of silence that the software puts in by default?

Yes, I am angry about this. (j/k)

@teh roxxors: there are many who recommend software without really thinking about the user's needs. In this case, however, the most commonly recommended programs will fit the bill and you'll probably have to use more than one of them to get the job done.

foobar2k allows you to decode mp3s with a lame header without additional silence. burrrrrrrrrn allows you to easily create audio cds from various source files (though I prefer to convert everything to wave first and use EAC to burn them). Do you know how to create and edit cuesheets? This is the easiest way that I know of to add varying gaps between tracks.

Egor already mentioned that nero should be able to burn mp3 cds without giving you any trouble.

use foobar2k and burn the waves later. otherwise, good luck finding a program that can do this and burn.

replaygain/mp3gain are much better than normalization! use foobar2k to do this and burn the waves later.

If it supports your burner it does a fine job of buring audio CDs.

I don't mind using a couple different programs. I just want to be sure I'm able to do all the things I described:

• DAO burning for improved reliability
• volume normalization or leveling when burning audio CDs
• ability to work with source files of various formats (WAV & MP3, mostly)
• ability to remove that 2-second gap between tracks!!!
• removal of any leading & trailing silence
• removal of silence in MP3s before they get burned
• ability to burn a live CD without gaps between tracks
• ability to specify gaps or no gaps between any specific pair of tracks
• ability to create MP3 music CDs

I can continue using Nero for data backups. But I'm interested in finding something better suited toward making quality audio CDs. I'll go loook at burrrn for a while....

Since when? foobar2000 supports the "ReplayGain" RMS-leveled normalization. It includes plugins to burn CDs, and basically all of the other features you asked for.

You could use burnatonce to burn your mp3 cds.

I also believe that Feurio! is regarded as the major actor in Audio CD burning. Made by the folks at Ahead, you'll find information on whether it fits your needs or not on their page.

And no, I don't own Ahead stock. I just use their products, and am proud of being their customer.

LOL ROTFLMAO



I found this Feurio! review and am going to study it a bit more.

Haven't you folks figured out yet that the poster, teh roxxors, is the problem???

Goodness, you sound tough. I'm sure all the other kids at school are afraid of you.

Can anyone compare Feurio! and foobar2000? Having read the review, it seems Feurio! addresses a lot of important features left out of Nero.

Here, try this link.

LOL

The link is of limited use. None of the expert members here have taken the time to review any of these products. The hydrogenaudio knowledgebase doesn't seem to have anything on them. Most information around here deals with ripping and encoding.

Thanks, anyway.

Foobar2000 sounds like a nice player and might make for good burning software with additional plugins, but I do not think it will do quite what I want.

Has anyone used both Feuro! and BurnAtOnce and can discuss them?

I use EAC for burning Audio CDs in DAO mode, you just should use the latest version of EAC and enable "Use CDRDAO" option. EAC performs perfect offset-corrected Disc-at-Once burns and inter-track gaps can be specified within a cuesheet. Be sure to update your system to the latest service pack level (currently, Windows 2000 SP4, Windows XP SP2, Windows Server 2003 SP1). Improperly configured system may be the cause of applications crashes.

Feurio is an outdated application and BurnAtOnce is of limited use (though you can create trivial MP3 CDs).

foobar2000 can prepare image+cue for burning with EAC, it has top-notch resampler, ditherer, equalizer, limiter, and support for gapless MP3 decoding (other formats too). foobar2000 also supports ReplayGain technology which is a better alternative to normalise based on loudness, not just the loudest peak.

So the only thing you are to find is a silence trimmer plugin for foobar2000.

(but it has gapless mp3 support)

...only for lame mp3s with the proper header (last time I checked).

There are some things that are best done with a decent wave editor.

For cryin' out loud Shade[ST], why do you have brackets in your name?

I mean, it incorporates workaround for MP3 delay, so there is no click/silence between tracks of e.g. live-concert CD.
Trimmer is intended to automatically skip long leading and trailing silent passages.

Ok, I have a stupid question.

Egor, how is it that you are able to quote Shade[ST] and properly show his name with brackets?

Edit: Sorry for being off-topic.

Use special html entities such as &#91 and &#93

In the software's first version, quoting me worked properly. I also thought it might be nice to include my starcraft clan in my name (good times ) Everyone take note, though, you can call me "Shade" or "Tristan"...

Glad to hear it and thanks. I should have used one of these ( ) after my exclamation to let you know that it was in good (or bad?) humor.

I understood the humour in your quote. You misspelt humour, though ; as a sidenote, I'm glad to see you're not having problems quoting me, now.

I apologise but some blokes might find that joke off-colour.

i think foobar burns some of the nicest audio cds from mp3 files or flac files or whatever.

not only is it gapless (if the damn mp3s are encoded properly), but it does cd-text which is kind of cool and can mix and match formats, use cue sheets, +on+on.
the one thing it cant do that i think you mentioned is like burning varying gaps between tracks (or did i read that wrong?). it does also (last i checked) have a plugin that will skip through audio silence (not headers or software glitches, etc).

back in the day i used cd-architecht and it was pretty amazingly professional. you had to convert to wav first which was lame but man the control you had was awesome. then i got an updated version and they removed some pretty basic feature that i loved, something about like not being able to independently adjust the fade in/outs of conjoined tracks. i wonder if they ever brought it back.

Burrrn :
http://www.burrrn.net/download/burrrn_package.exe

(Burrrn can decode MP3's gapplessly, just like fb2k!)


burnatonce :
http://www.burnatonce.net/files/bao0995.exe


Any WAV editor.

Awesome. Thanks for all the advice. I wish I had come here earlier; could have saved some cash.

Thanks again, especially to Martin H & Egor.

You should respect everyone, you know? Martin H only re-stated what others said. That you chose to read only him is your problem, but I suggested the same software he did... I just didn't cook the food for you (giving you links)

Then again, why should I expect you to use google...

I did thank everyone. You're just being a little sensitive.

Here, I'll try again:

Thank you, Shade[ST]. You're the best!

It's not about me, but thanking the community as a whole... everyone deserves an acknowledgement.

Anyways. That's enough out of me.

I really do need to thank Shade[ST] for this comment, which led me to install Feurio! and take it for a spin. So far, it is the ONLY program I have found that can actually do all these things:

• DAO burning for improved reliability
• volume normalization or leveling
• ability to work with source files of various formats (WAV & MP3, mostly)
• ability to remove that 2-second gap between tracks!!!
• removal of any leading & trailing silence
• removal of silence in MP3s before they get burned
• ability to burn a live CD without gaps between tracks
• ability to specify gaps or no gaps between any specific pair of tracks

The ability to manually remove gaps between any pair of tracks sets it appart from anything else I've seen. The ability to preview a compilation and hear your music EXACTLY as it will be recorded is unique. Someone said Feurio! was outdated software. I don't care if it was developed on an Etch-A-Sketch; it actually works, it does things commercial applications do not.

I'm not sure if it does this:

• ability to create MP3 music CDs

But I can continue to use MusicMatch Jukebox or Nero to make those rare MP3 CDs.

This SoundOnSound article got me through burning my first successful gapless mix. Feurio! isn't exactly watered-down, and casual users may find the range of options somewhat Byzantine.

I do believe that nero 7 was said to have quite a few bugs. I am not sure but a few if not most have been addressed. Still I did not want to even use it when it first came out and am still using version 6. It does all the things you mention and I also must say feurio, burnatonce and burrrn are all good applications.

You might upgrade your nero. I have been able to do all you mention with my version 6.

One app i like a lot right now is called Ones, it was hard to find but once I got it I really like it as it is small efficient and does all I want. http://www.tx-software.com/

LOL -- I've tried to update Nero 7, but I always get an FTP error if I use the software's automatic updater. No problem, I can run a standalone patch, right? Wrong -- running the downloaded update for Version 7 gives yet another error: The installer says it's incompatible with the version I have installed.

So I've no way to update the software . . . .

Anyway, when I used Feurio! to link my tracks together and then was able to specify EXACTLY when one track would end and the next one begin, I became a believer. Being able to preview everything and know EXACTLY what it would sound like even before it was burned was icing on the cake.

Oh, sorry about that, i should have read the thread more thoroughly before posting

CU, Martin.

It's June 1st of 2008, so now I've been using Feurio! for nearly two years.

Amazingly adept at making audio CD mixes. Don't know if many people still do that, as iPods now have so much storage and are rather affordable.

Still haven't found anything that offers the same level of control when burning audio CDs.