We have compiled a page with full results of dBpowerAMPs new secure ripping method and how it compares with EAC:

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/secure-ripper.htm

If your interest is secure ripping, try dBpowerAMPs R12 secure ripper and report your results:

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=9739

can dMC be configured as to what consitutes an AccurateRip match? Is a match of 1 good enough for dMC to stop the ripping process? I would like to be able to configure this option personaly.

BTW, the ripper is working wonderfully Spoon. Im sure its going to replace EAC, especially with AMG metadata support.

Is R12 released or is this just more propaganda?

Latest news on dbpoweramp.com is about m4a codec pack.

It is not officially released yet, dMC r12 is available in alpha-version. Just follow this link that Spoon provided in post #1 of this thread.

My initial tests give me mixed results when compared to EAC with my various drives.

One thing I can say is that it can't touch the performance that I get from Plextools with my PX-716A with the discs I have tested that are defective enough to give errors but not too much that an accurate rip isn't possible. It seems that EAC does a better job with this drive also.

I have a rebadged Plextor that EAC does not report as providing C2 information yet R12 says it does though using it gives bad results. I have another drive that provides C2 pointers to EAC but gives in returns an error when checking the option in R12.

If I could get a detailed explanation of how Ultra Secure Ripping and the various options work, I may be able to perform more efficient tests.

EDIT: I think the performance of R12a4 is very encouraging. Also, I'd like to know exactly what the program is doing when dealing with bad frames.

It may be worth sending/selling these discs to spoon for further dev if he is interested.

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/secure-ripper.htm

XX (user configurable) tries on bad frames or until 10 match.

Sorry for the delay I was away.

The re-ripping of bad frames should be the same in EAC as dbpoweramp, and even plextor - there is only one show stopper there and that is the CD cache - you have it configured correctly?

Unlike EAC with dBpowerAMP R12 if the drive supports c2 pointers then have the c2 pointer option checked, it will help identify bad frames. If your drive has a good c2 implementation and you are happy with it then have no ultra passes (it will be just like plextools then), for a poor c2 implemented drive have atleast 2 ultra passes.

What settings are you using?

there are not any differences in r12 and eac when using accuraterip without c2 correction right??

based on the flowcharts they seem to be doing the same thing or am i missing something?

hey spoon I have what appears to be a qsi bw242u cdrw/dvd drive in my dell 5150 inspiron laptop and eac detecs c2 error correction and i havn't been able to get R12 to detect it at all. Does anyone know if theres a sure fire way to test or find this information out? thanks.

Hey Spoon,

The AccurateRip results look very promising. My concern, however, is what does dMC do with regard to gap detection and what is in the gaps? Half my reasoning for using EAC is I can get a perfect copy of a CD in FLAC, including all the gaps between tracks: can dMC do this too?

Thanks,
smiler

gaillard

>based on the flowcharts they seem to be doing the same thing or am i missing something?

They are fundamentally different, in that dBpowerAMP works on complete passes where EAC works on small chunks.

If a drive supports C2 then you need a CD with scratches and a c2 error pointer should be flagged when doing the test. Your windows log on needs admin rights to read c2 from the cd drive.

smiler

Every CD ripper includes the gaps, that is how they work, you need special code to detect and remove the gaps.

Is there any reason eac, cdspeed, and nero info detect c2 from the same cd but R12 doesn't? does that mean if i were to rip that cd with r12 it isn't using c2 correction (anyway to test that?)

Also spoon i posted on your forums about the wavpack command line in r12. I can't get it to work with "-h - [outfile]"
"-h [infile] [outfile]" rips and encodes to 99% and then freezes. wavpack_debug just says the three arguments like this.

arg 1: -h
arg 2: C:\DOCUME~1\JONATH~1\Desktop\SARAHB~1\SARAHB~3.WAV
arg 3: C:\DOCUME~1\JONATH~1\Desktop\SARAHB~1\SARAHB~1.WV

thanks spoon, your a great help

I would love the answer to this question too if you don't mind spoon. I believe in your specs you said a confidence of 5 could be a good start but what is the program set on?

Is it possible to rip the CD as an image+cue? I think AccurateRip doesn't support it.
I have all my CDs as images+cue and would like to keep it that way, though.

Wavpack command line is:

-i -y -w "artist=[artist]" -w "title=[title]" -w "genre=[genre]" -w "album=[album]" -w "year=[year]" -w "track=[track]" - [outfile]

----
Images are currently not supported, but when they are they will work with AccurateRip.
----
Currently ripping will finish with a single confidence match with AccurateRip (unless C2 pointers are enabled and there is a C2 error)

>qsi bw242u cdrw/dvd

You know I hate that drive it is purged from AccurateRip for having different offsets with either firmware versions or drive revisions.

About C2, dBpowerAMP uses a cd read call using MSF rather than LBA, it could be the firmware of that drive does not support c2 and MSF addressing.

hey spoon,

I just updated the firmware to u27 from u25 on that qsi 242 drive and now pretty much every cd the program reads just says can't read cd. But it will now detect c2....

do i just need a new drive?

Take a big hammer...

If I get the plexor 230A (any reason i shouldn't? or better for that price range?) will it give that error the same as my qsi 242 does now? that the cd can't be read. I understand if it finds the errors, and i want it to if there are there but shouldn't it still be able to read all cd's???

ok i got the plexor 708a dvd drive for this new software. I don't see why people on hydrogenaudio are not making a bigger deal of this. With Eac, if there is an error on the disk that repeats on the re-reads then your files will have errors in them! and if you enable c2 with eac then its soley reliant on c2. This software will use c2 and then re-reads for things that c2 misses. Thats as good as it gets right?

maybe there is just something i don't know...

If EAC detects the error from a C2 pointer and the error is consistent (it repeats), your file is still going to have an error because C2 is not used during re-reads.

If EAC's using C2 pointers and an error is missed it will be passed along since no re-reads will take place since EAC's detection of errors is, like you said, solely reliant on C2 pointers.

EDIT: Anyway, this topic is about dBpowerAMP not EAC. To steer this portion of the discussion back on topic, it seems as though spoon's ripper has "Advanced code to detect when drive is interpolating and hiding errors." Does this mean that it also has some immunity to consistent errors that EAC doesn't have? It seems as though EAC has no immunity.

well just the fact that this ripper uses re-reads even if c2 doesn't report an error is a dramatic improvement.

I think i read in his technology preview that it said it also used c2 IN the re-reads as well...

As far as i know c2 is the protection against consistent errors and re-reads is the protection against inconsistant, which is why it makes sense to me to use them both whereas plextor tools and eac don't... correct me if i am wrong spoon about c2 erros mostly being consistant.

Think about the worst case of c2 (in its usage in dBpowerAMP, EAC is different), perhaps you have a case where c2 is reporting an error which is not there - dbpoweramp will go through the process of re-ripping (that sector) around 40 times, if the CD is in accuraterip it will verify correctly at the end.

If a error slips past c2 undetected the re-read (programmable times) will hopefully pick it up.

so yes, this implementation of c2 is designed to be as good as it gets.

C2 is not used during re-reads with EAC.
A C2 pointer may spot an inconsistent error but upon re-reads, EAC will likely consider the consistent error good.

Again, EAC offers very little (if any) immunity to consistent errors. This is one instance where spoon's new ripper has the opportunity to offer some significant improvement.

spoon what kind of SECURE settings for the secure mode would you recommend? like minimum re reads 10 max 16? pass on 8?

thanks!

Depends on your drive, for a good drive which implements c2 I would use 1 minimum ultra pass, finishing on 1 clean pass.

A poor drive without C2 then have a relatively high number of ultra passes (min 6, finish after 3, max 10 or 16).

Drives in the middle adjust accordingly.

Well I gotta give this program some props. There are a few CD's in my collection that never ripped quite right in EAC. They would hang and never rip... no matter how long I left it, even in burst mode. All of a sudden I give this thing a shot and BAM! perfect rips. Keep up the good work. Can't wait for the final release. I'll be one of the guys switching from EAC.

I'm also interested in this especially if and when it supports Accuraterip with ripping to a single file instead of tracks.

why not rip to individual files?

Primarily for later extraction of hidden track one audio (HTOA) (e.g. via acdir), but also for creating "perfect" archives of CDs.

-brendan

Regardless of HTOA or anything else, this can be accomplished just as completely through the ripping of individual files.

EDIT: (Provided your hardware and software allows for the extraction of HTOA.)

Maybe I've over looked this some where but is there a proposed release date on this ripper yet? Or is it still too early to say when? And by release I mean NON-alpha versions. Something considered stable.

Full release should be end of this year, betas when the suite is complete (so the CD Ripper could be finished but it still be in an alpha). No one has reported a single crash with R12 yet, so it seems very stable despite being an alpha.

Ya,

The program seems to be pretty rock solid from what I've seen. I personally haven't had any crashes with it so far either. I just can't wait to use external encoders with it. You do plan on doing that right?

There is the CLI encoder for it, that will work with any external compressor.

let me see if I understand this right. I've got a pretty good C2 capable drive

Pass 1 reads the cd checks for C2 errors

Then Ultra Secure mode makes additional passes to flag any errors that were missed.

Now the "end after clean passes" i'm a little confused about. Does the ripper end the ultra-secure ripping after "x" number of passes where no new errors are found?

If so, I like progress of the ripper so far

I will say myself though, it's not perfectly stable, the cd ripper gives stange errors with my usb cd-rom and if i change from the default controls to aspi, it just locks up completely

One more thing i'd like to know is how many re-reads would be recommended...i see you tested using 48, but the default is now 34. Most likely though, I'll start at a higher number and just adjust until the ripping speed of my more scracthed cds becomes optimal

>Does the ripper end the ultra-secure ripping after "x" number of
> passes where no new errors are found?

Yes as long as it satisfies the minimum value set.

Which Windows version are you using?

There is an issue with high number of re-reads (if no c2 is used) that is if you did 1000, there is a very high chance of 10 matching even though those that match are errors (on one of the obscure drives I tested this was a real problem, it needed a relatively low 34 value to detect errors as errors).

Well the issue I'm having doesn't really have to do with the ripping stage, it's the program in general

it's a Lite-On LTR-24102B in a USB enclosure, my interal LG drive works fine

using scsi pass through, it'll give me an error about not being able to read the cd when i rip in burst mode. When I try to detect the cache for secure mode, it finds the cache, but when it tries to test the size of the cash it keeps saying there's no cd in the drive.

Now if i switch to Nero ASPI, it rips in burst mode fine, but once again, when I try to detect the cache (I know this drive caches for a fact) it sees the cache but the program completely locks up upon detecing the cache size.

It is almost certainly poorly written drivers / chipset of usb enclosure.

It is a pretty cheap enclosure, I'll just have to install it back into my old desktop and try it from there.

anyone have a plextor 708a and are getting c2 error reports with dbbpoweramps detector?

mine is not getting any and i would like to make sure its just my drive...

don't know whether to hope it is or isn' t!

There will be a new version of CD Ripper soon that uses readcd12 0xBE rather than Read CD MSF (this is still used if a drive has a negative offset correction so that is can read into the lead in, 0xBE cannot read negative into the lead in), this thread has proven some drives have problems returning C2 error pointers (athlough a px708a is not one of them). We are diagnosing the missing c2 from your plextor on dbpoweramps forum.

If anyone else has a Plextor px708a - does the C2 detect work on your system (options >> secure settings >> detect c2 pointers)?

what are the differences between how dbpoweramp and eac call for the c2 erros? or between cdspeed as well

This problem only occurs without C2? So in the case that all my drives support C2, I could use any number of re-reads, even over 1000 if I so desire (even though I won't go that high), and not risk it incorrectly reading errors?

Correct.

C2 detection worked OK with my PX708A.

Found the problem, only the first 5 tracks were being used for C2 detection (in the detection routine only, not ripper). Next alpha will fix.

In the first hour of use dBpowerAmp Music Converter has crashed on me twice. Once opening the Options window and the other whilst trying to figure how to change the Artist name for a various Artist CD (never did figure that out ).
If it helps:

This is a fairly fresh XPPro 64 installation. AMD64 3800+ 1 GB RAM.