Check out this link (points into our wiki):

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...cial:Categories

Do we really need that much categories? As I see it:
- Some categories should be sub-categories of foobar2000
- The codec category is already there, but points only to Quicktime AAC. I add some cursory links to other codecs.
- The Vinyl Guide category I added just recently; currently points to 2 articles only (please, Vinyl Guide maintainer, check it out)

So, there are a few questions:
1. Is it possible to create subcategories under foobar2000?
2. Currently there are only 3 categories, then: Codec, Foobar2000, Vinyl Guide. What else?

Inputs appreciated.

If you add foobar2000 as at category at the category page you want to be a subcategory of foobar2000 you will get what you want if I recall correctly.


I for one highly favor the category system and I think it should be used as much as possible... it could be a way to get some other to the very disordered wiki...

Jan S.: I agree with you. There's the Topic Index... but it's really like an index of a book.

Anyways, I've included a link to the Categories page in the Main Page, which I am renovating, too.

Hopefully the renovating work for Categories and the Main Page will be completed within this week.

I suggest adding the following categories:
- Tools (e.g. EAQUAL, OggDropXPd)
- Players (e.g. WinAmp, Foobar, MediaMonkey)
- Digital audio theories (e.g. joint stereo, transparency)

Ah, I just found out that Special:Categories shows all categories and subcategories in a flat way.

Hmm.

That means, if we want to make an outline-based system (a la this page), we gotta create our own Categories page. But instead of making a new page by itself, I propose putting the top-level categories in the Main Page.

Alternatively, what about installing the CategoryTree extension, Jan S.? It's available here (CategoryTree.tgz), and the README can be found here

Ok. I installed it. I am not sure if everything works though since it uses AJAX that I'm not sure the server software supports fully...

@Jan S.: Seems to be working... if I type something in the search box, it attempts to do a gradual search instead of waiting Enter to be pressed... but haven't checked everything yet.

-----

Alright, up to this point in time, these are many new categories. I am against too many categories. I'd rather have a few categories linking to a lot of articles than many categories-and-subcategories with only 2-3 articles each.

Why? Because we want HA Knowledgebase is easy to use. E.g. a newbie may perhaps not know that "FFT" is categorized as "Algorithm". By simply grouping all those technical stuff under "Technical Stuffs" (name may be changed), he/she can easily find what he/she's looking for... not to mention also seeing other articles he/she may not has known to exist.

That said, here are the current categories, which I will discuss.

1. Algorithms (5 links)
--> Should be classified as "Technical Info". Only 5 articles... and where do you start defining algorithms? Codecs are algorithms?
--> I suggest killing this category.

2. Codec (24 links)
--> It is good as it is now. We may still miss some, but as a category it's good.

3. Columns UI (2 links)
--> I suggest recategorizing into a subcategory "Looks" (name tentative) under "Plugins" under "foobar2000".

4. DSP (10 links)
--> Currently a subcategory under "Plugins", under "foobar2000"

5. Digital Signal Processing (5 links)
--> See what I mean? And FFT is not Digital Signal Processing? What about MDCT?
--> I disagree. Let's kill this category and put things under "Technical Stuff"
--> Besides, some articles pointed to by this category does not squarely fall in the "digital" domain

6. Foobar2000 (7 links)
--> This is a master category. Subcategories for Foobar should lead out from here.

7. Foobar2000 Guides (2 links)
--> This is a good subcategory; the question is: What's the scope of the guides? How about TAGZ guide? Or foo_trackinfo_mod guide? Do we want to put all of them here?
--> We must add links pointing straight out to Bachi-Bouzouk's guide here.

8. Input (1 links)
--> This is a good subcategory under "Plugins" under "Foobar2000"
--> Unfortunately only 1 article ATM.

9. Library tools (9 links)
--> The definition of Library tools is not clear to me; why not group the articles under "Misc" under "Plugins" under "foobar2000"?

10. Listening Tests (3 links)
--> Nuh huh huh. A newbie will not really understand that "ABX" supposed to go into listening test.
--> Either integrate the articles into "Codecs" or "Technical Stuffs". I'd rather the latter, so that the Codecs category will contain only those well-known (and less-well-known) codec names.

11. Misc (3 links)
--> This should be a catch-all subcategory under "Plugins" under "foobar2000" for all those genre's of plugins that do not fit elsewhere.

12. Notifier (3 links)
--> The idea is there...

13. Other components (17 links)
--> So. What's the difference between "Misc" and this category? No way. Merge them.

14. Plugins (2 links)
--> This should be a master subcategory pointing out to other sub-subcategories.

15. Psychoacoustics (2 links)
--> Again, how would a n00b know about "Psychotousics"? (misspell intended) Nope, merge this into "Technical Stuff"

16. Remote control (2 links)
--> Are there so many plugins re:remote control that they need their own category? Maybe, maybe not.
--> Why not join into "Misc"?

17. Software (10 links)

18. Soundcards (3 links)
--> Why not have "Hardware" master category, then "Soundcards", "Portable Audio Player", etc. underneath?

19. Technical (18 links)
--> Yes, keep this, and make all the above technical categories be rolled up into one.

20. Templates (4 links)
--> This is unavoidable.

21. Vinyl Guide (3 links)
--> I still have mixed emotion whether to make this into a fully-fledged category or just a category under "General Guides" ... which should contain e.g. EAC configuration guide, Long-term archival guide, CDex configuration guide, etc.

Remember: The aim is not to over-categorize the Knowledgebase, but to present information in a
more accessible way. And to reach that aim -- again I should stress -- is not by making a myriad of categories each with only 2-3 articles, but to make a few categories that is juuuust sufficient to group/structurize all HAK pages into something graspable.

If we want to give a leading hand, that we can do by editing the 'cover page' for each categories.

There. That's my 2 cents. Untill we resolve this better not continue categorizing the pages just yet.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
Alright, up to this point in time, these are many new categories. I am against too many categories. I'd rather have a few categories linking to a lot of articles than many categories-and-subcategories with only 2-3 articles each.

Why? Because we want HA Knowledgebase is easy to use. E.g. a newbie may perhaps not know that "FFT" is categorized as "Algorithm". By simply grouping all those technical stuff under "Technical Stuffs" (name may be changed), he/she can easily find what he/she's looking for... not to mention also seeing other articles he/she may not has known to exist.
[/quote]
I think 5 or 6 categories are more than enough. Anything over that doesn't work IMO. Subcategories are ok, but only if the show up in the specific category page.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
That said, here are the current categories, which I will discuss.
1. Algorithms (5 links)
--> Should be classified as "Technical Info". Only 5 articles... and where do you start defining algorithms? Codecs are algorithms?
--> I suggest killing this category.
[/quote]
Shold be killed and merged in tech info or something similar

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
2. Codec (24 links)
--> It is good as it is now. We may still miss some, but as a category it's good.
[/quote]
I suggest renaming it to "Codecs"

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
3. Columns UI (2 links)
--> I suggest recategorizing into a subcategory "Looks" (name tentative) under "Plugins" under "foobar2000".
[/quote]
Should be killed and included in a subcategory of foobar2000.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
4. DSP (10 links)
--> Currently a subcategory under "Plugins", under "foobar2000"
[/quote]
This looks like tech info to me. I suggest integrating it.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
5. Digital Signal Processing (5 links)
--> See what I mean? And FFT is not Digital Signal Processing? What about MDCT?
--> I disagree. Let's kill this category and put things under "Technical Stuff"
--> Besides, some articles pointed to by this category does not squarely fall in the "digital" domain
[/quote]
Should be removed and integrated in tech info.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
6. Foobar2000 (7 links)
--> This is a master category. Subcategories for Foobar should lead out from here.
[/quote]
agreed.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
7. Foobar2000 Guides (2 links)
--> This is a good subcategory; the question is: What's the scope of the guides? How about TAGZ guide? Or foo_trackinfo_mod guide? Do we want to put all of them here?
--> We must add links pointing straight out to Bachi-Bouzouk's guide here.
[/quote]
Should be a subcategory of foobar2000.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
8. Input (1 links)
--> This is a good subcategory under "Plugins" under "Foobar2000"
--> Unfortunately only 1 article ATM.
[/quote]
Remove it and integrate as a foobar (sub)subcategory.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
9. Library tools (9 links)
--> The definition of Library tools is not clear to me; why not group the articles under "Misc" under "Plugins" under "foobar2000"?
[/quote]
Remove it. Should be a foobar subcategory.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
10. Listening Tests (3 links)
--> Nuh huh huh. A newbie will not really understand that "ABX" supposed to go into listening test.
--> Either integrate the articles into "Codecs" or "Technical Stuffs". I'd rather the latter, so that the Codecs category will contain only those well-known (and less-well-known) codec names.
[/quote]
Due to the interest that listening tests have for HA it might be wise to keep it as a specific category..... I don't know.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
11. Misc (3 links)
--> This should be a catch-all subcategory under "Plugins" under "foobar2000" for all those genre's of plugins that do not fit elsewhere.
[/quote]
Yes for foobar2000 Misc. and no for all other Misc.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
12. Notifier (3 links)
--> The idea is there...
[/quote]
And what would this be?

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
13. Other components (17 links)
--> So. What's the difference between "Misc" and this category? No way. Merge them.
[/quote]
Should be subcategory of foobar.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
14. Plugins (2 links)
--> This should be a master subcategory pointing out to other sub-subcategories.
[/quote]
Should be subcategory of foobar.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
15. Psychoacoustics (2 links)
--> Again, how would a n00b know about "Psychotousics"? (misspell intended) Nope, merge this into "Technical Stuff"
[/quote]
Tech info it is!!!

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
16. Remote control (2 links)
--> Are there so many plugins re:remote control that they need their own category? Maybe, maybe not.
--> Why not join into "Misc"?
[/quote]
Subcategory of foobar.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
17. Software (10 links)
[/quote]
Leave as is.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
18. Soundcards (3 links)
--> Why not have "Hardware" master category, then "Soundcards", "Portable Audio Player", etc. underneath?
[/quote]
Harware sounds good.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
19. Technical (18 links)
--> Yes, keep this, and make all the above technical categories be rolled up into one.
[/quote]
Only one tech category please.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
20. Templates (4 links)
--> This is unavoidable.
[/quote]
As is.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
21. Vinyl Guide (3 links)
--> I still have mixed emotion whether to make this into a fully-fledged category or just a category under "General Guides" ... which should contain e.g. EAC configuration guide, Long-term archival guide, CDex configuration guide, etc.
[/quote]
Category under general guides. Remember only very few categories.


ps. quotes are not working as intended. I don't know how to solve the problem

[quote] 18. Soundcards (3 links)
--> Why not have "Hardware" master category, then "Soundcards", "Portable Audio Player", etc. underneath?
[/quote]
Harware sounds good.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
19. Technical (18 links)
--> Yes, keep this, and make all the above technical categories be rolled up into one.
[/quote]
Only one tech category please. [/quote]

Hardware is fine I had hardware to begin with. If you lump everything under "Technical" it's going to be very confusing, Algorithms alright maybe that's very specific, but Digital Signal Processing is a must. That basically constitutes a good 75% of what goes on here. Psychoacoustics too. Technical is too mushy. If only Technical people are going to look at then why not? just don't list it as a category on the main page. That's the most appropriate view IMO.

see my proposal for master categories for the front page: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page

[quote name='HotshotGG' date='Sep 4 2006, 17:19' post='427381']
[quote] 18. Soundcards (3 links)
--> Why not have "Hardware" master category, then "Soundcards", "Portable Audio Player", etc. underneath?
[/quote]
Harware sounds good.

[quote name='pepoluan' date='Sep 4 2006, 14:47' post='427329']
19. Technical (18 links)
--> Yes, keep this, and make all the above technical categories be rolled up into one.
[/quote]
Only one tech category please. [/quote]

Hardware is fine I had hardware to begin with. If you lump everything under "Technical" it's going to be very confusing, Algorithms alright maybe that's very specific, but Digital Signal Processing is a must. That basically constitutes a good 75% of what goes on here. Psychacoustics too.
[/quote]

We can always create subcategories under the master category.

To not irk the mods I will not re-quote. Yes, beto, that happened to me too. It's frustrating, but irreproducible, heh

1.
Agree. Will kill and join with "Technical Information" (name?)

2.
Agree. Will rename category to "Codecs". Sorry, I forgot the "s" the first time around.

3.
On 2nd thought, agree. Let's not have more than 1 level of subcategory. Suggested subcategory: "foobar2000 Looks".

4.
Uh, I meant that category refers to DSP plugins for Foobar2000. A bit different from "DSP" category on the main page, which links to "Category:Digital Signal Processing". Will roll into subcategory: "foobar2000 DSP plugins" (name?)

5.
Agree. Will kill and join with "Technical Information" (name?)

7.
Agree.

8.
Agree. Will convert into subcategory: "foobar2000 Input plugins" (name?)

9.
Hmm... perhaps the subcategory: "foobar2000 Other plugins" ??

10.
Hmmmmmmm... Okay, might make sense. A main category then? Although this will IMO be a very lean category (i.e. few articles).

11.
Maybe join into subcategory: "foobar2000 Other plugins" ??

12.
Well... they're all plugins used to notify what song is currently playing... maybe "foobar2000 Notifier plugins" (name?

13.
Join with "foobar2000 Other plugins" ??

14.
As each plugin type has been grouped into their own subcategories, we can kill this.

15.
Agree. Will kill and join with "Technical Information" (name?)

16.
After thinking, it's good to have it's own subcategory: "foobar2000 Remote Control plugins" (name?)

17.
Should we make subcategories under this one?

18.
Hardware it is then. Subcategories?

19.
Shall be renamed to "Technical Information" (name?)

21.
Shall be subcategory "Vinyl Guide" under "General Guides" then.

If there is no objection to the above, I will implement them straight away

Agreed from my side.

I also think we should have only one subcategory level to avoid too many nested subcategories.

for 17 and 18 yes, we should have subcategories in there.

for 10 I believe we can create a specific category for the time being and in the future merge it if necessary. just a suggestion.

Just a note: a page can belong to several categories if that solves some problems as to where things belong...

much like page tagging I suppose.... that's good.

Sounds good. Just include that information.

Aaaahhh... this I just know thanks Jan S. !

I'll try to get my hand on it ASAP... after I kill these mosquitoes in the server room (how did they get here???)

Subcategorizing it under General Guides is a little troubling, but given a choice between that and it being its own category, probably correct. The only big catch with that is that all the subtopics would also need to be indexed into General Guides, so all the vinyl-specific subtopics would be placed in the same index as all the other guide subtopics.

discussion about proposed categories and subcategories in the wiki:

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page

There you can find a table with my initial proposal of main categories.

I made a proposal of main categories and subcategories to the wiki here: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page

I'll start implementing it today if that is ok.

I think we have to put somewhere in the main page that any article in the wiki should be classified in at least one of the main categories (classification in subcategories is at the writer's discretion).

... but the maintainers can still change it to something they deem fit

Why not have new articles put under "New Article" category, and we'll discuss here in the forums where that new article will be categorized ?

I am testing putting multiple categories in one page... looks good actually. There's a caveat in putting the order of categories in the page.

For an example, see this page:

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lowpass_filter

And check out its history. Swapping the position of the category markers result in a different category indication.

sounds good to me.

Another page you might find useful: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...ategorizedpages

Gee, Jan, how many more of those special pages are there

Thanks for the pointer Jan, helps simplify searching for uncategorized pages mighty good.

That said, we seem to have quite a Herculean task here, categorizing the pages ... well at least we can't say that we're bored because of nothing to do

For the foobar2000 components I think we should categorize all of them under Foobar2000 Plugins.
Do you really think we need to be specific to the point of categorizing as Foobar2000 DSP Components, Foobar2000 Input Components, Foobar2000 Output Components etc.
I think this will add unecessary complexity to the categories.

Well, for me, it helps. I am mimicking WinAmp's grouping of plugins there. Only a few subcategories are needed: Input, Output, DSP, Looks, and Others.

Since there're also two all-encompassing Components page (one for 0.8, one for 0.9), the grouping here should not pose too much problem.

I am more concerned of the stacked/multicategory strategy. E.g. the pages of Vinyl Guides. As it is now, the pages appear both in the Guides category page and Vinyl Guides subcategory page. If all such pages are categorized that way, we'll get a huge amount of articles in the category page, and pages that don't fit into a subcategory may be overlooked.

But I'm still open to suggestions. It's no big deal recatagorizing those pages, since they are still a few of them. Better cook things up now before actually doing that on the hundreds of page in HA wiki...

One more question: Should it be "Codec" or "Codecs" ? I think the plural... so it's my original mistake...

I'm going to change the vinyl guide category to the name "Vinyl". The "Guide" in its name is, for the most part, redundant.

I will also rename most of the articles to start with the subtopic, with (Vinyl) appended to avoid collisions against other topics. For example:

Advantages (Vinyl)
Disadvantages (Vinyl)

I've already been doing a lot of moving around, so expect some broken links from time to time.

Ok. as long as we keep it controlled.
What about the category tree plugin for mediawiki? It would make the categories page more readable, though I do not know if the current infrastructure could support it...

Re: Category tree.

I have asked Jan S. to install it, and -- being the nice guy that he is -- he said he had it installed now. But I can't find how to activate it in a page. Any clues?

In installing that, the AJAX framework was also activated. Now this does run; try entering part of a word in the searchbox, i.e. "fooba", and in several seconds the right part of the screen transforms to show the matching results.

hmmm. the category tree is not working in HAK.

Maybe this could help Jan:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CategoryTree_extension

I don't think there is anything I can do if it doesn't work.
It is either an AJAX issue or the fact that it seems to require mediawiki 1.8 (just noticed that now).
Neither of those I can do anything about. 1.8 has not even been officially released yet and they even dropped support for the php version we use in 1.7.

an upgrade to the latest php and mediawiki version would be possible?

According to Garf an update to php is not gonna happen.

ok. thanks for the info
I guess we're stuck with current functionality then.