Vorbis , the least worst sounding 64 kbit/s codec, yes I agree.
But does anyone care about "Stereo"
Although Vorbis is the "least worst sounding 64 kbit/s codec"
but it is the "Worst Stereo separation Codec at 64 kbit/s".
Although AAC which has a lot of clipping, WMA which cutoff at 13 kHz and sounds metallic, MPC which has lot of clipping
have good stereo separation at 64 kbit/s!
Only a "-q 5" will solve this problem! For audio with large stereo field, I think it would need a "-q 6" or "-q 7"
to completely(100%) overcome the stereo collapse in Ogg!
Edit : I'll rather use MPC "-q 5", it's much better than Ogg "-q 5"
Full Version: Ogg Vorbis : Bad Stereo!
I think that's how Vorbis "does its magic". It diverts bits that would have gone into separate channels and uses them to improve the perceived quality of the musical signal. If Vorbis had better stereo separation, you would likely hear more pre-echo and other annoying artifacts. It's a trade-off and since Xiph planned on pitching 64kps Vorbis as a competitive streaming format you could easily argue that stereo separation is a very low priority for this application.
Yep, although MP3 and AAC also have lossy stereo (Intensity Stereo)
It is used rarely in MP3, on very low bit rates, and it is not used in AAC by any high-quality encoder (although, I've seen some 3party encoders that do Intensity Stereo at 64 and 96 kbps, ending up with similar stereo collapse problems as with Vorbis)
It is used rarely in MP3, on very low bit rates, and it is not used in AAC by any high-quality encoder (although, I've seen some 3party encoders that do Intensity Stereo at 64 and 96 kbps, ending up with similar stereo collapse problems as with Vorbis)
QUOTE(kotrtim @ Dec 15 2002 - 05:22 AM)
Vorbis , the least worst sounding 64 kbit/s codec, yes I agree.
Who said that?
QUOTE
But does anyone care about "Stereo"
Although Vorbis is the "least worst sounding 64 kbit/s codec"
but it is the "Worst Stereo separation Codec at 64 kbit/s".
Although AAC which has a lot of clipping, WMA which cutoff at 13 kHz and sounds metallic, MPC which has lot of clipping
have good stereo separation at 64 kbit/s!
Although Vorbis is the "least worst sounding 64 kbit/s codec"
but it is the "Worst Stereo separation Codec at 64 kbit/s".
Although AAC which has a lot of clipping, WMA which cutoff at 13 kHz and sounds metallic, MPC which has lot of clipping
have good stereo separation at 64 kbit/s!
That's right, it seems that Vorbis mixes everything above a certain frequency (6 kHz?) into the centre of a stereo image at this bitrate, so the result sounds almost like three separate mono channels (left, centre and right) rather than a real stereo panorama. This also "kills" almost any room depth informations (front/back) especially of sounds at the sides of the panorama, because they rely on an intact stereo image with a broader bandwidth.
The reason for this behaviour might be that flanging sounds are easier to prevent, because they appear when high-frequency output on the left and/or right side has to be encoded (e.g. ride and hi-hat cymbals of a drum set) in a way that it will remain in its original position.
What do you want from a 64kbps file? At leasts it sounds 
Agreed.
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