My EAC is configured as "Multiple WAV files with Gaps (non-compliant)" and "Append Gaps to Previous Track (default)". Everytime I rip I CD I press F4 to detect gaps, then I create the cuesheet, and just after that I rip.
But why the cuesheet will be screwed up (error parsing line this and that) in foobar, why can't a single cuesheet come out right? Any ideas? Is It a Bug?
Full Version: Why EAC simply won't give you a right cuesheet
foobar doesn't support EAC's non-compliant CUE format
edit: that is, foobar 0.9.x
edit: that is, foobar 0.9.x
that's ironic... a tremendous application like foobar fails with a simple cuesheet... LOL
bet that nero also does not support it because if you use to burn it with nero, it will mess tracks and even insert "data" tracks all over... .
bet that nero also does not support it because if you use to burn it with nero, it will mess tracks and even insert "data" tracks all over... .
The format is called non-compliant for a reason.
which cuesheet must I create to get foobar to run it and nero to burn it... and why EAC tutorials insist creating non-compliant sheets?
QUOTE(Cosmo @ Jan 23 2007, 23:23) 
The format is called non-compliant for a reason.
This does not mean anything for the parsing software. Technically it's a laugh: A good piece of software fails playing just because of one or more lines of ascii meta information. THIS is the sad truth. If this software was by microsoft, people would flood the world with non standard compliant cues just to fuck their users.Outside of zealots and teachers world a good principle is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_Principle and anybody benefits from that principle any time, otherwise most of the stuff wouldn't work. In the real world there's even no need to discuss this.
There's some very strong teacher attitude around fb2k.
ascii meta information ?
That's what a cuesheet is - metadata in an ASCII text file.
QUOTE(Squeller @ Jan 24 2007, 09:26)
Technically it's a laugh: A good piece of software fails playing just because of one or more lines of ascii meta information. THIS is the sad truth.
Yeah, it's a real laugh that fb2k's cuesheet parser is spec-compliant
It's not necessarily a laugh, but a shame, when a (relatively) popular application (i.e. EAC) happens to have "bent" the format to allow additional features/flexibility which would not otherwise have been possible and the player most likely to be associated with it will not allow it to slide, instead treating it as an insult to some specification.
I see more of a benefit to being liberal (to a sensible extent, of course) with formats and data than being ultra-restrictive. However, if the developers were to offer more insight into issues like this, instead of ignoring them (forgive me if I have forgotten any previous reply), perhaps there would be less criticism/confusion!
I see more of a benefit to being liberal (to a sensible extent, of course) with formats and data than being ultra-restrictive. However, if the developers were to offer more insight into issues like this, instead of ignoring them (forgive me if I have forgotten any previous reply), perhaps there would be less criticism/confusion!
QUOTE(Martin H @ Jan 24 2007, 08:08)
Yeah, it's a real laugh that fb2k's cuesheet parser is spec-compliant
Users don't give a rat's ass if it's spec compliant or not. They care if it works and in this case it doesn't.
Being overly anal in this case is not a very smart decision if you ask me.
BTW, this was changed in the 0.9 beta 7. All versions before that used the old cuesheet parser and were able to play "noncompliant" cue sheets.
@Bourne: Load the seperate tracks directly. If you want to create an "Image with chapter or cue sheet blahblah" use CUETools instead, this tool also won't rewrite the cue sheet so heavily like fb2k does (e.g. deleting track PERFORMER and REM lines and so on).
IMHO there's nothing wrong with EAC's way of creating "hacked" cue sheets for seperate track rips. The fact that it is possible to convert them with tools like CUETools to a single WAV + compliant CUE sheet that are the same as if they were ripped, proves that saying "EAC simply won't give you a right cuesheet" can't be completely true.
@Bourne: Load the seperate tracks directly. If you want to create an "Image with chapter or cue sheet blahblah" use CUETools instead, this tool also won't rewrite the cue sheet so heavily like fb2k does (e.g. deleting track PERFORMER and REM lines and so on).
IMHO there's nothing wrong with EAC's way of creating "hacked" cue sheets for seperate track rips. The fact that it is possible to convert them with tools like CUETools to a single WAV + compliant CUE sheet that are the same as if they were ripped, proves that saying "EAC simply won't give you a right cuesheet" can't be completely true.
QUOTE(Squeller @ Jan 24 2007, 00:26)
Outside of zealots and teachers world a good principle is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_Principle and anybody benefits from that principle any time, otherwise most of the stuff wouldn't work. In the real world there's even no need to discuss this.
There's some very strong teacher attitude around fb2k.
While a good principle to keep in mind, it's still good to be very careful with the input you accept.
Quoted from the Wiki entry you linked:
QUOTE
A subsequent RFC, RFC 3117, suggests that Postel's principle be followed only loosely, lest errors or less-than-desirable implementations should be propagated generally:
Counter-intuitively, Postel's robustness principle ("be conservative in what you send, liberal in what you accept") often leads to deployment problems. Why? When a new implementation is initially fielded, it is likely that it will encounter only a subset of existing implementations. If those implementations follow the robustness principle, then errors in the new implementation will likely go undetected. The new implementation then sees some, but not widespread deployment. This process repeats for several new implementations. Eventually, the not-quite-correct implementations run into other implementations that are less liberal than the initial set of implementations. The reader should be able to figure out what happens next.
Counter-intuitively, Postel's robustness principle ("be conservative in what you send, liberal in what you accept") often leads to deployment problems. Why? When a new implementation is initially fielded, it is likely that it will encounter only a subset of existing implementations. If those implementations follow the robustness principle, then errors in the new implementation will likely go undetected. The new implementation then sees some, but not widespread deployment. This process repeats for several new implementations. Eventually, the not-quite-correct implementations run into other implementations that are less liberal than the initial set of implementations. The reader should be able to figure out what happens next.
Postel's principle = Robustness Principle
beto said right, users don't give a damn. either it works, or it doesn't. and it makes me laugh that such powerful applications like foobar2k and EAC, that currently are "anyone's audio need software" are uncapable to relate because of "standards". can't they just make the thing work for the world's sake..?
In case of the common ID3v2 compatibility issues the pressure coming from the users was so high that they budged. But apparently that was only an exception because they got fed up with the constant complaints.
Well, there are a few issues involving cuesheets that could do with a bit of attention, so hopefully they will see some of those. 
What is it that multiple file CUE sheets provide you in foobar2000 that can't be provided through the use of tags and/or actual playlists?
I believe most users use them to retain the extra information such as track indexes, CD-Text (a.k.a. tags), ISRCs, gaps, etc. - for the easy burning of CDs. I personally prefer using images, but I can see reasons for other users choosing to combine the methods.
QUOTE(greynol @ Jan 26 2007, 01:31)
What is it that multiple file CUE sheets provide you in foobar2000 that can't be provided through the use of tags and/or actual playlists?
Anyway that's an irrelevant conclusion. The thread is not about why he wants to load the non-compliant cue sheets but about why he can't load them anymore.
I know EAC outputs non-standard CUE sheets that will not work in FB2K. I have FB2K 0.9.4.2 and EAC 0.94b4, and I would open the CUEs in NotePad to remove the extra data, and save this as a different CUE sheet. I know the problem persisted from 0.9.4.1 to 0.9.4.2.
I changed the gap detection accuracy in EAC to accurate, and ALL my new CUE sheets from EAC work in FB2K without editing them. I kept the original CUE sheets from EAC and they do not work in FB2K. Some one want to tell me what is wrong with this besides me? Could it be a couple of flukes that work?
I changed the gap detection accuracy in EAC to accurate, and ALL my new CUE sheets from EAC work in FB2K without editing them. I kept the original CUE sheets from EAC and they do not work in FB2K. Some one want to tell me what is wrong with this besides me? Could it be a couple of flukes that work?
[Added Clarifications]
QUOTE(dv1989 @ Jan 25 2007, 16:39)
I believe most users use them to retain the extra information such as track indexes, CD-Text (a.k.a. tags), ISRCs, gaps, etc. - for the easy burning of CDs. I personally prefer using images, but I can see reasons for other users choosing to combine the methods.
That's all fine, but again, what do they buy you in foobar2k that can't be handled through the use of tags and a proper playlist? CUEs are not and never were intended to be playlists.QUOTE(SamHain86 @ Jan 25 2007, 20:54)
I changed the gap detection accuracy in EAC to accurate, and ALL my new CUE sheets from EAC work in FB2K without editing them. I kept the original CUE sheets from EAC and they do not work in FB2K. Some one want to tell me what is wrong with this besides me? Could it be a couple of flukes that work?
Either the discs you've used to create cue sheets have no gaps or your drive is incapable of detecting gaps with the detection accuracy set to accurate.The current verision of fb2k does not support noncompliant cue sheets. The only way a CUE sheet can be compliant that was created with the option to append gaps to the previous track is for there to be no gaps between any tracks.
QUOTE
That's all fine, but again, what do they buy you in foobar2k that can't be handled through the use of tags and a proper playlist? CUEs are not and never were intended to be playlists.
I imagine the main reason being the archival and possibility of easy burning back of CDs. Again, I would just use images for that purpose and so agree with you for the most part.
I think that the issue here is that people use non-compliant cuesheets for those or similar reasons, due to whichever personal preference, and would like to have the choice to play their files as albums in their favourite player.
QUOTE(dv1989 @ Jan 26 2007, 05:10)
I think that the issue here is that people use non-compliant cuesheets for those or similar reasons, due to whichever personal preference, and would like to have the choice to play their files as albums in their favourite player.
You're right, of course.
Had previous versions of fb2k only supported compliant sheets I'm guessing this would never have been an issue.
Today, I got my hands on a strange EAC cue-sheet. Take a look.
Track 2 has almost two and a half minutes pre-gap, track 4 almost three minutes and track 7 has an "index 02".
What does this mean?
I know this is off-topic, but it's still a atrange EAC cue-sheet.
CODE
REM GENRE Metal
REM DATE 1996
REM DISCID B312810E
REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v0.95b4"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
TITLE "Load"
FILE "Metallica - Load.ape" WAVE
TRACK 01 AUDIO
TITLE "Ain't my Bitch"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 01 00:00:00
TRACK 02 AUDIO
TITLE "2 X 4"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 02:34:11
INDEX 01 05:04:30
TRACK 03 AUDIO
TITLE "The House Jack built"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 10:31:21
INDEX 01 10:32:45
TRACK 04 AUDIO
TITLE "Until it sleeps"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 13:53:73
INDEX 01 17:11:35
TRACK 05 AUDIO
TITLE "King Nothing"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 21:09:22
INDEX 01 21:39:30
TRACK 06 AUDIO
TITLE "Hero of the Day"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 26:31:25
INDEX 01 27:09:12
TRACK 07 AUDIO
TITLE "Bleeding me"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 29:22:04
INDEX 01 31:31:05
INDEX 02 37:47:16
TRACK 08 AUDIO
TITLE "Cure"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 39:21:38
INDEX 01 39:49:00
TRACK 09 AUDIO
TITLE "Poor twisted me"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 01 44:43:22
TRACK 10 AUDIO
TITLE "Wasting my Hate"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 47:46:15
INDEX 01 48:43:22
TRACK 11 AUDIO
TITLE "Mama said"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 52:14:20
INDEX 01 52:40:40
TRACK 12 AUDIO
TITLE "Thorn within"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 58:00:07
INDEX 01 58:00:17
TRACK 13 AUDIO
TITLE "Ronnie"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 01 63:51:67
TRACK 14 AUDIO
TITLE "The Outlaw torn"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 69:02:65
INDEX 01 69:09:02
REM DATE 1996
REM DISCID B312810E
REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v0.95b4"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
TITLE "Load"
FILE "Metallica - Load.ape" WAVE
TRACK 01 AUDIO
TITLE "Ain't my Bitch"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 01 00:00:00
TRACK 02 AUDIO
TITLE "2 X 4"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 02:34:11
INDEX 01 05:04:30
TRACK 03 AUDIO
TITLE "The House Jack built"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 10:31:21
INDEX 01 10:32:45
TRACK 04 AUDIO
TITLE "Until it sleeps"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 13:53:73
INDEX 01 17:11:35
TRACK 05 AUDIO
TITLE "King Nothing"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 21:09:22
INDEX 01 21:39:30
TRACK 06 AUDIO
TITLE "Hero of the Day"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 26:31:25
INDEX 01 27:09:12
TRACK 07 AUDIO
TITLE "Bleeding me"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 29:22:04
INDEX 01 31:31:05
INDEX 02 37:47:16
TRACK 08 AUDIO
TITLE "Cure"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 39:21:38
INDEX 01 39:49:00
TRACK 09 AUDIO
TITLE "Poor twisted me"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 01 44:43:22
TRACK 10 AUDIO
TITLE "Wasting my Hate"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 47:46:15
INDEX 01 48:43:22
TRACK 11 AUDIO
TITLE "Mama said"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 52:14:20
INDEX 01 52:40:40
TRACK 12 AUDIO
TITLE "Thorn within"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 58:00:07
INDEX 01 58:00:17
TRACK 13 AUDIO
TITLE "Ronnie"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 01 63:51:67
TRACK 14 AUDIO
TITLE "The Outlaw torn"
PERFORMER "Metallica"
INDEX 00 69:02:65
INDEX 01 69:09:02
Track 2 has almost two and a half minutes pre-gap, track 4 almost three minutes and track 7 has an "index 02".
What does this mean?
I know this is off-topic, but it's still a atrange EAC cue-sheet.
Check your gap detection settings - perhaps a different configuration would help. OTOH, do any unusual intros or segments of audio play during those times? It could be intended. An INDEX 02 could mark a second movement/section/whatever of a particular track, although not very widely supported.
Anyway, this really calls for a "New topic plz."
Anyway, this really calls for a "New topic plz."
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