I have a rockbox'd h120. I've been toying with the idea of using different formats, since the rockbox can handle it, and to potentially save space.

So, how do they compare, today?

edit: add the latest community aac

i'd go for aac or ogg. or most compatible, lame

Only you can just be the judge of that, which is precisely why you need to perform an ABX test

MPC doesn't win at any bitrate.

for rockbox use - musepack is a good option (high quality, most effecient lossy codec for the iriver h100/h300 series)

mp3 is another good option for your device and doesn't have the other cons associated with musepack (support, etc)

aac and vorbis decoding require more cpu boosting (usage) then musepack and mp3

http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?PHPSES...mp;topic=6786.0

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main...manceComparison



later

This will be a very messy topic if people don't start adhering to TOS #8

My take, even though I've used all 3 formats, I'm ill-equipped to say. They're all excellent formats that have been well proven, and my ears simply aren't that good to discern between them.

Since you're using a portable, you may be able to get by with lower bitrates than you would at home. But I don't know how you're using your portable.

Maybe at the turn of this century....

Since there have been no significant public blind listening tests in that range in as many years, you can't really use that line anymore. Some individuals here have done their own tests in the last few years and found that MPC was no longer the clear leader.

Most likely, you ears won't be able to discern a difference at the bitrate in question unless you have above average hearing or substantial artifact-testing experience.

With a 20 GB HD you may have to consider disc space.

With this in mind I guess the 80 ... 160 kbps range is your best choice, and in this range Vorbis or AAC are best IMO.
The drawback as was said before is battery runs down earlier compared to mp3 or mpc, so if this is of concern to you you might prefer mp3 or mpc in the 128+ kbps range (for instance Lame -V4 or Helix -V60).

mp3 has practical advantages anyway.

mpc has a very good quality, especially in the 160+ kbps range. Quality however can't be called better any more than that of Vorbis or AAC.

i have a ridiculous amount of musepack files and my rockbox'ed h320 is a perfect match for them. (and negates a previous con of musepack - no hardware support )

if i wasn't using musepack (--standard) then i'd be using lame mp3 (-V2 -vbr-new) simply for the codec efficiency mentioned in my previous posts. (and i do use both lame and musepack currently).

vorbis and aac are obviously great codecs, but aren't the best options for the rockbox right now for either the iriver or ipod arches (and not enough information exists for other arches to comment on them).

seeing as how this thread is specifically targeting the rockbox h100 series, i don't think these responses are TOS#8 issues.

in your first post you mentioned "saving space". i see two viable ways to do this...

(1) musepack (--standard) usually has a lower bitrate than lame (V2 --vbr-new).

(2) use a lower vbr profile. musepack at --radio is an option (and proven to be a great option ~2003) but recent lame progress has probably eclipsed musepack. lame (-V4 --vbr-new, etc.) is probably your best option.


later

Quick recommendations:

- Lowest bitrate, still acceptable quality: AAC

- Low bitrate, good quality: Vorbis or AAC. Not sure which one drains batteries faster.

- Format compatibility, acceptable quality, medium bitrate: MP3 with LAME V4

- Format compatibility, good quality, high bitrate: MP3 with LAME V2

I think the AAC decoder in Rockbox is even slower than Tremor.

I'm not sure AAC is even realtime on the Coldfire platforms.

You might want to look here to make a decision based on battery life. Though there doesn't seem to be much of a straight comparison between codecs.

I personally use MPC on my Nano. It's the most efficient there even though the difference is pretty negligible overall. I have yet to make any tests based on the latest multithreading patches however.

AFAIK MP3 is one of the most efficient codecs for coldfire so you should probably stick with that.

We're all assuming that a little boost will have an appreciable effect on runtime. On iPods, at least, the difference in boost between OGG and MP3 appears to make negligible differences in runtime. On the Gigabeat battery life is equally good at full speed as it was when frequency scaling was tried.

I would very much like to see some proper* Coldfire target (iRiver H1xx/H3xx, iAudio x5) runtime tests comparing OGG to MP3. The current IriverRuntime wiki page is a mess, there is very little in the way of useful data to be culled from it.


*Proper runtime tests, IMHO, would consist of:
1) Documented/consistant settings on stock builds (w/o any DSP or WPS - let the codec be the main power draw),
2) Separate tests using OGG/MP3/MPC/AAC playlists at equal bitrates (or very close, need to eliminate hard drive spin up from the equation) (perhaps noting the boost percentage for each codec, measured at the same point in every test),
3) Repeated tests averaged,
4) A comparison of the 90%-10% runtime figures to help mitigate the non-linear and less-predictable behavior of Li batteries at the start and end of discharge cycles.

It is. I have very few things on my H140 in AAC but they all do play realtime.

I have a rockboxed H320, and I agree with xmixahlx on most accounts. If you want acceptable battery usage while preserving space, Lame --vbr-new -V4 and -V5, and MPC -q 4.75 to -q 5 are the choices to go. If you're least concerned with quality, and more the filesize, go for Vorbis -q0 to -q3.

When I bought my H140 1.5 years ago I wanted to use vorbis and checked battery life against mp3.
I tested repeatedly until battery was down. I don't remember the exact details but it was something like 2 hours less of playing time.
I decided then to use mp3.

Today I don't care much about such a degredation in playing time. I used wavPack lossy @ 350 kbps (wonderful format ) and accepted the inferior playing time. Recently I gave it up for another reason: Now that my battery is not as good as at the beginning my H140 didn't boot any more other than when battery is more or less fully loaded.

Now that AAC is playable I am trying it. I have some experience meanwhile and had no booting problem so far. I haven't done a real playing time test but I'm not so much interested any more in exact playing time. Using AAC is not troublesome so far and that's what counts for me.

I still wonder whether or not I should switch from mp3 to AAC, but that's for other reasons.

i think the situation is pretty close to what it was forever ago.

1. use mp3. it's supported everywhere and is good quality.
2. use another format that you like better, but doesn't have as much support.

that second format is different for everyone (all have different pros/cons).

if you are happy with mp3 then stick with it.

for rockbox, that second format that makes the most sense is musepack.


later

Currently, I'm using 3.97 v2, because I have a semi-hi-fi setup, and it's easier to have one set of files than having multiple, one for computer use, one for portable use.

I do think, however, that future LAME releases should focus more on reducing size while maintaining quality. Quality is very nearly "good enough" right now, but size needs working on.

Is Vorbis gapless with Rockbox firmware? Or any other codec? Does Rockbox support Vorbis gain tags?

yes

MP3 and MPC too?

Yes, yes with Lame MP3, Musepack, Vorbis & Flac (don't know about others but they should be gapless if it's natively possible) and yes.

AAC files made with itunes are problematic for playing gapless and it isn't possible yet in rockbox either. More here:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=34989

I tested LC-AAC support with winamp 5.33 encoded files on my H120: LC-AAC files work well except they have slight *blip* between trackchanges and HE-AAC support is not yet realtime.

Here's a bit more general info about rockbox's gapless support:
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GaplessHowTo

And why exactly musepack "makes the most sense" ?

Based on hardware support, I rather suggest Vorbis. Samsung's player support it, as also Cowon. Some JVC car head-unit also support it. The best audio player for Windows Mobile/PocketPC-based PDA that I ever use (GSPlayer) plays Vorbis. There's a freeware Vorbis player for Symbian-based smartphones called "OggPlay".

Granted, Vorbis' battery consumption may be worse than Musepack's. But in normal daily usage I don't think that will be noticeable.

Edit:
Come to think of it, AAC also makes perfect sense. Maybe better than Vorbis. (And this from a Vorbis-zealot! )

um, i was talking strictly about rockbox arches (iriver hxxx and ipod). all the other issues i addressed in previous posts.

the cons of musepack are addressed in rockbox (seeking, hardware support, etc.) and you are able to use a DAP with high quality audio at pretty low "transparent" bitrates (--radio to --standard) and the decoder is blazing fast. sounds pretty good to me... (the same can be said for MP3)

i don't see how AAC "makes perfect sense" right now for rockbox devices...


later

I'd go with mp3. You'll thank yourself for doing so one day or another once you run into some compatibility problems (non-supported formats).

That day will always come...

Personally i've reripped and archived into ogg, aac, mpc and all kinds of formats earlier, but i just can't find any reason not to just stick with lame 3.97 -v2 nowadays.

Id recommend vorbis, and if not that, then musepack, and if not that, then aac, and if not that, then mp3.



So you can just encode into any lossy format whenever you want, just have your collection in lossless if at all possible.