Following the thread over at the slimserver forum in an attempt to rip HDCD discs, i've been using the Chronotron wav plugin for windows media player.
This is on a cd which I think, but am not sure is HDCD, Neil Young live at Massey hall.
There's a HDCD logo on the cover, but no indication in WMP that it is in fact an HDCD.
I noticed if I used the plugin in 'realtime' mode, the resulting WAV's were slightly larger than the wav's resulting from an EAC rip or using the same plugin in 'fast' mode.
Anyone have an explanation for this?
Aren't lossless wav's all exactly the same?
Full Version: Chronotron wav plugin for WMP to rip HDCD's
You don't need anything special to rip HDCDs; the data is standard Red Book 16-bit/44.1kHz.
He means capturing in a plain PCM WAV file the full ~18-20bit dynamic range that HDCD is supposed to offer when played back through an HDCD capable decoder. A little googling and then a cursory glance through the thread he mentioned seems to be about recording a 24bit WAV file from the output from WMP's HDCD decoder. An interesting idea, although it seems a bit more of a hassle than it'd be worth IMHO.
The way I do it is first make a secure copy with EAC, then mount the image with daemon tools. Make sure you set your "speakers" to use 24-bits under devices in the options window.
Not all HDCD make use of the peak extension, but the ones that do are worth the hassle. Make a volume matched comparision of the waveform to be certain.
OT: I think it's time that people stop giving discouraging replies about ripping HDCDs, there are waveforms on the forum that prove it works and now that there is an automated way to do it there's no reason users should be missing out.
Not all HDCD make use of the peak extension, but the ones that do are worth the hassle. Make a volume matched comparision of the waveform to be certain.
OT: I think it's time that people stop giving discouraging replies about ripping HDCDs, there are waveforms on the forum that prove it works and now that there is an automated way to do it there's no reason users should be missing out.
QUOTE(joeshrubbery @ Apr 3 2007, 20:38) 
He means capturing in a plain PCM WAV file the full ~18-20bit dynamic range that HDCD is supposed to offer when played back through an HDCD capable decoder. A little googling and then a cursory glance through the thread he mentioned seems to be about recording a 24bit WAV file from the output from WMP's HDCD decoder. An interesting idea, although it seems a bit more of a hassle than it'd be worth IMHO.
Capturing, not ripping; I gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.
the plugin actually does capture the full resolution a hdcd offers - at least i think i found that out. the plugin captures to an wavex-file. there is a clear difference visible with certain hdcdīs - some dynamic expansion & dithering for higher resolution, some are only mastered with a hdcd processor, which results in being a hdcd without any of its advantages (i think). an example for the latter case are a few soundtracks from the composer thomas newman (road to perdition).
other cdīs are using only dithering to improve bit resolution, for example "jaques loussier trio plays debussy" from TELARC.
other cdīs are using all things a hdcd can offer, for example "raise the titanic" from john barry (SilvaScreen), nearly all recordings from Reference Recordings, some soundtracks like "Danteīs Peak", "Contact", "Mouse Hunt"...
i built my statements upon the visible & louder dynamic peaks (with a lower average volume level) when comparing the decoded and undecoded waves. also visible was the varying bit-depth in bit-display in wavelab. to me it seems that the bit-depth directly responds to the amount of dithering applied to the signal according to the instructions in hdcd-encoding. because: at some peaks the bit-resolution jumps to 20 bits, sometimes to 18. but normally itīs at 17 bit.
a personal note: these are only my personal guessings, since i donīt know how to prove, that there are actually 20 bit or less. the changed dynamic is easily visible (& audible).
interesting enough, a hdcd can only be decoded, when it is a cd. the wavefiles itself wonīt be decoded when extracted to harddrive with EAC. it seems that WMP only recognizes a cd.
below is an example: it compares the undecoded source, ripped with EAC & the decoded WAVEX-file. you can clearly see the dynamic expansion (and itīs massive, not only tiny peaks) and on the right the differences in bit resolution. at this particular part of the recording (jacques loussier trio plays BOLERO (TELARC)) the resolution is at 20 bit, visible in the pink boxes reaching down to 20 bit in the bitmeter.
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1526/untitled1vj8.jpg
other cdīs are using only dithering to improve bit resolution, for example "jaques loussier trio plays debussy" from TELARC.
other cdīs are using all things a hdcd can offer, for example "raise the titanic" from john barry (SilvaScreen), nearly all recordings from Reference Recordings, some soundtracks like "Danteīs Peak", "Contact", "Mouse Hunt"...
i built my statements upon the visible & louder dynamic peaks (with a lower average volume level) when comparing the decoded and undecoded waves. also visible was the varying bit-depth in bit-display in wavelab. to me it seems that the bit-depth directly responds to the amount of dithering applied to the signal according to the instructions in hdcd-encoding. because: at some peaks the bit-resolution jumps to 20 bits, sometimes to 18. but normally itīs at 17 bit.
a personal note: these are only my personal guessings, since i donīt know how to prove, that there are actually 20 bit or less. the changed dynamic is easily visible (& audible).
interesting enough, a hdcd can only be decoded, when it is a cd. the wavefiles itself wonīt be decoded when extracted to harddrive with EAC. it seems that WMP only recognizes a cd.
below is an example: it compares the undecoded source, ripped with EAC & the decoded WAVEX-file. you can clearly see the dynamic expansion (and itīs massive, not only tiny peaks) and on the right the differences in bit resolution. at this particular part of the recording (jacques loussier trio plays BOLERO (TELARC)) the resolution is at 20 bit, visible in the pink boxes reaching down to 20 bit in the bitmeter.
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1526/untitled1vj8.jpg
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