Finly thinking of getting myself a portable player.
Dont need video/picture player on it, but if it was there it would not stop me buying it. Obviously the bigger the capacity the better.
Have read reviews of various, Rio, River, iPod, etc etc.but am still no nearer to knowing what to go for
So far all of my music (about 500 gig of FLACS ripped with EAC as per theis forum).
Nothing converted to Ogg/mp3 or anyother lossey format yet.
So what format do I go for?
I really like the iPod navigation system, but DONT want to use iTunes and get bogged down in all the DRM stuff. Is there another player that works like an iPod, or can I put another OS (linux based?) on it.
My PC at the moment is Win XP Pro, but I am just starting to expirement with linux Kubuntu distro and Amorak player.
So guys, what the recommemdations
Full Version: What portable player
Have a look at rockbox. It's an alternative firmware for many iPod models along with other portables. I'm currently using it with Vorbis (-q5, ~160) and am very pleased.
QUOTE(Neil @ May 21 2007, 05:14) 
Finly thinking of getting myself a portable player.
Dont need video/picture player on it, but if it was there it would not stop me buying it. Obviously the bigger the capacity the better.
Have read reviews of various, Rio, River, iPod, etc etc.but am still no nearer to knowing what to go for
So far all of my music (about 500 gig of FLACS ripped with EAC as per theis forum).
Nothing converted to Ogg/mp3 or anyother lossey format yet.
So what format do I go for?
I'd advise LAME MP3 or a VBR form of AAC (either iTunes/Core Audio or Nero) at around 160kbps.
QUOTE
I really like the iPod navigation system, but DONT want to use iTunes and get bogged down in all the DRM stuff.
Good God! Doesn't this show how effective black propaganda is? Unlike certain other (themselves DRM-friendly) companies I could mention, whose surrogates in the press would have you believe the contrary, iTunes never has at any stage put DRM on your own music that you've ripped and encoded yourself.
QUOTE
Is there another player that works like an iPod
There are plenty of DAPs on the market. They all work in similar ways. I don't know of another that specifically (a) has a clickwheel--"the iPod navigation system" that you mentioned--or (b) syncs with iTunes, if those are what you mean by "work[ing] like an iPod".
QUOTE
... or can I put another OS (linux based?) on it.
You can run Linux on your iPod, if you wish--can't see the point myself:
http://www.ipodlinux.org/Main_Page
QUOTE
My PC at the moment is Win XP Pro, but I am just starting to expirement with linux Kubuntu distro and Amorak player.
You can certainly use an iPod with Windows XP, and, I should think, every other player on the market would work with XP. I don't think you'd have any limits there.
As for Amarok, yes:
http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/Media_Device:IPod
How well it does it I don't know, because although I've got Amarok, I've never tried. Again, it will work with some others DAPs but just how wide and how good its support is, and how painless sync is, I don't know.
By works like an iPOD I mean the click wheel device, yes.
I know there is plenty on the market, but where I am here on the island of Jersey, we cant just go to a store to look at all the differnt models, the stores just ain't here. I have read a few reviews, but have come up with no conclusion after reading loads, hence my post. Telling me there are loads on the market does not really help, as I already know that.
Sort of looking for a "Try that, that or that recomendation, but avoid......XXX. "
Am really thinking of ogg Vorbis rather than MP3, so a player to support that would be good
Have only used iTunes once when I installed it for someone the other day, so only have that limited experience of it.
Have not heard of any of the propaganda that you talk of. It just seemed to me that it was iTunes that was stopping music being copied off a second family iPOD back to the PC with its fresh copy of iTunes. It was not downloaded music, it was home ripped (Not in WMP but CDeX I believe) and as far as we knew started off with no DRM locking at all. itunes would not copy off that device onto the new PC, but iTunes on the Old PC would copy it. Maybe it was not a DRM issue, I dont know, maybe there was some other force at work that I was not aware of, but as I say, this was my fiirst dealing with iTunes, and did not like it.
I know there is plenty on the market, but where I am here on the island of Jersey, we cant just go to a store to look at all the differnt models, the stores just ain't here. I have read a few reviews, but have come up with no conclusion after reading loads, hence my post. Telling me there are loads on the market does not really help, as I already know that.
Sort of looking for a "Try that, that or that recomendation, but avoid......XXX. "
Am really thinking of ogg Vorbis rather than MP3, so a player to support that would be good
Have only used iTunes once when I installed it for someone the other day, so only have that limited experience of it.
Have not heard of any of the propaganda that you talk of. It just seemed to me that it was iTunes that was stopping music being copied off a second family iPOD back to the PC with its fresh copy of iTunes. It was not downloaded music, it was home ripped (Not in WMP but CDeX I believe) and as far as we knew started off with no DRM locking at all. itunes would not copy off that device onto the new PC, but iTunes on the Old PC would copy it. Maybe it was not a DRM issue, I dont know, maybe there was some other force at work that I was not aware of, but as I say, this was my fiirst dealing with iTunes, and did not like it.
QUOTE(Neil @ May 21 2007, 13:21)
Have only used iTunes once when I installed it for someone the other day, so only have that limited experience of it.
Have not heard of any of the propaganda that you talk of. It just seemed to me that it was iTunes that was stopping music being copied off a second family iPOD back to the PC with its fresh copy of iTunes. It was not downloaded music, it was home ripped (Not in WMP but CDeX I believe) and as far as we knew started off with no DRM locking at all. itunes would not copy off that device onto the new PC, but iTunes on the Old PC would copy it. Maybe it was not a DRM issue, I dont know, maybe there was some other force at work that I was not aware of, but as I say, this was my fiirst dealing with iTunes, and did not like it.
iTunes' DRM will not bother you in any way, as long as your files do not have DRM. DRM ability in players doesn't matter, DRM on files does.
The copy off of an iPod limitation is a deliberate limitation of iTunes for legal reasons, it has nothing to do with the iPod itself or the files on it. Any of the dozens of iTunes alternatives will let you copy files off any iPod. Furthermore, with a program like YamiPod installed on your iPod, you can hook up an iPod to any Windows, OS X or Linux machine without installing anything on that machine and copy away.
You can use explorer as well to copy music off an iPod. You don't need any third part programs.
You just need to be able to view hidden folders/files.
JXL
You just need to be able to view hidden folders/files.
JXL
Another vote for Rockbox here. I got Rockbox on a Toshiba Gigabeat F40. Get a F60 and - in my opinion - you have the best high capacity player available (many nice features, OGG Vorbis beeing just the tip of the iceberg).
The touch sensitive controls of the Gigabeat are a bit awkward though, but I got used to it quickly.
The touch sensitive controls of the Gigabeat are a bit awkward though, but I got used to it quickly.
What are you using on the PC? Linux or windows?
I read in a review that they only handle windows, but I wonder if installing Rockbox sorts that out.
Another vote for Rockbox here. I got Rockbox on a Toshiba Gigabeat F40. Get a F60 and - in my opinion - you have the best high capacity player available (many nice features, OGG Vorbis beeing just the tip of the iceberg).
The touch sensitive controls of the Gigabeat are a bit awkward though, but I got used to it quickly.
I read in a review that they only handle windows, but I wonder if installing Rockbox sorts that out.
QUOTE(ilikedirtthe2nd @ May 21 2007, 19:07)
Another vote for Rockbox here. I got Rockbox on a Toshiba Gigabeat F40. Get a F60 and - in my opinion - you have the best high capacity player available (many nice features, OGG Vorbis beeing just the tip of the iceberg).
The touch sensitive controls of the Gigabeat are a bit awkward though, but I got used to it quickly.
TrekStore Vibez is a very nice player, but it only has 12GB of flash memory.
I don't have my own experience with the device, but I heard many positive comments about Cowon X5. And there is some rumor about X7 comming in a month or two.
I don't have my own experience with the device, but I heard many positive comments about Cowon X5. And there is some rumor about X7 comming in a month or two.
QUOTE(Neil @ May 21 2007, 19:50)
What are you using on the PC? Linux or windows?
I read in a review that they only handle windows, but I wonder if installing Rockbox sorts that out.
QUOTE(ilikedirtthe2nd @ May 21 2007, 19:07)
Another vote for Rockbox here. I got Rockbox on a Toshiba Gigabeat F40. Get a F60 and - in my opinion - you have the best high capacity player available (many nice features, OGG Vorbis beeing just the tip of the iceberg).
The touch sensitive controls of the Gigabeat are a bit awkward though, but I got used to it quickly.
I'm using it on Linux. It's true that it requires windows to upload files for use with the original firmware, but with Rockbox it simply acts as USB harddrive in any modern operating system.
Since linux is the primary rockbox dev environment, it tends to have good linux support. Really though, it should work equally well on any system with a USB port.
Just get the iPod, you are already sold on its click wheel. Other companies won't do for you because they lack they lack the click wheel. Plus everyone is already stating the same thing by pointing out Rockbox, which just so you do know will void your warranty. I was iffy about voiding my warranty since iPods have a history of battery problems that develop overtime. It is why I grabbed that 2 year Applecare plan for the Nano.
I grabbed a Zune because I was already using the Zune Player with my Xbox360 and it was easier to just have all three things working together. I convert all my music either into Lame Mp3 or Nero AAC and the only time the Zune adds DRM to music you own is when it sends it over the wifi to other Zunes.
As for its wifi, with firmware 1.4 it is gaining true WiFi not just Zune to Zune but the ability to go around to WiFi Hotspots and with a point system that was developed on the Xbox360, purchase music.
Basically it is like Zune Marketplace on the go plus they might add some other things to boost the use of the WiFi in time for Apple's iPhone (Really bad idea from Apple plus Cisco owns the name) is released.
I am not stating you should grab the Zune, because in my opinion people should make up their own mind to what they want. I will not be your shepherd but I will make you think.
Figure out what you want the player for, if its music only than a flash based one is good, movies than a Harddrive one, et cetera. Once you know what you want you will get what you want and be satisfied with it...maybe. After all, who is ever satisfied with anything completely?
I grabbed a Zune because I was already using the Zune Player with my Xbox360 and it was easier to just have all three things working together. I convert all my music either into Lame Mp3 or Nero AAC and the only time the Zune adds DRM to music you own is when it sends it over the wifi to other Zunes.
As for its wifi, with firmware 1.4 it is gaining true WiFi not just Zune to Zune but the ability to go around to WiFi Hotspots and with a point system that was developed on the Xbox360, purchase music.
Basically it is like Zune Marketplace on the go plus they might add some other things to boost the use of the WiFi in time for Apple's iPhone (Really bad idea from Apple plus Cisco owns the name) is released.
I am not stating you should grab the Zune, because in my opinion people should make up their own mind to what they want. I will not be your shepherd but I will make you think.
Figure out what you want the player for, if its music only than a flash based one is good, movies than a Harddrive one, et cetera. Once you know what you want you will get what you want and be satisfied with it...maybe. After all, who is ever satisfied with anything completely?
My vote would also go for the iPod+Rockbox route. It already seems as if you are on track for using the OGG audio format even though there are really small differences between that, iTunes/Nero AAC, and Lame mp3 (according to the last 128kbps VBR listening test). The iPod only supports AAC and mp3 right out of the box but I believe Rockbox adds support for OGG, FLAC, and a couple other formats. The Zune is pretty much in the same boat but I don't think there is a Zune version of Rockbox currently out.
If you are looking for a good screen and hardware that can stand up to some abuse, the Zune is not that bad of a player at all. You would just have to use with either Windows Media Player or the Zune Software to sync to it. The Zune is a little bit more rugged than the iPod as it is coated in a thin layer of a rubber type substance and it has a pretty big screen. The iPod has better battery life for both audio and video (Zune vs 60GB or 80GB iPod) and it has a much bigger capacity available for purchase. The iPod is covered in a thin layer of clear plastic that can scratch very easily and its screen is smaller than the Zune's.
The Rockbox+iPod route is probably what you are looking for though as it pretty much makes the iPod a universal lossy portable player (Rockbox will do that with any compatible player). You can just use Windows Explorer (or the Linux equivalent) to copy music files over to the iPod. Rockbox is not compatible with content purchased from the iTunes Store and I don't think it is compatible with videos either. For me, that is enough not to install it on my iPod.
If you are looking for a good screen and hardware that can stand up to some abuse, the Zune is not that bad of a player at all. You would just have to use with either Windows Media Player or the Zune Software to sync to it. The Zune is a little bit more rugged than the iPod as it is coated in a thin layer of a rubber type substance and it has a pretty big screen. The iPod has better battery life for both audio and video (Zune vs 60GB or 80GB iPod) and it has a much bigger capacity available for purchase. The iPod is covered in a thin layer of clear plastic that can scratch very easily and its screen is smaller than the Zune's.
The Rockbox+iPod route is probably what you are looking for though as it pretty much makes the iPod a universal lossy portable player (Rockbox will do that with any compatible player). You can just use Windows Explorer (or the Linux equivalent) to copy music files over to the iPod. Rockbox is not compatible with content purchased from the iTunes Store and I don't think it is compatible with videos either. For me, that is enough not to install it on my iPod.
QUOTE(Gow @ May 21 2007, 15:31)
Just get the iPod, you are already sold on its click wheel. Other companies won't do for you because they lack they lack the click wheel. Plus everyone is already stating the same thing by pointing out Rockbox, which just so you do know will void your warranty. I was iffy about voiding my warranty since iPods have a history of battery problems that develop overtime.
Its not clear that it voids the warranty. Obviously Apple can refuse what they like, but so far, people have received replacements and repairs for Ipods with Rockbox installed and the AppleOS removed. They appear to not care.
QUOTE(Gow @ May 21 2007, 15:31)
It is why I grabbed that 2 year Applecare plan for the Nano.
Replacement Ipod batteries cost less then 10 dollars shipped, and last 18 months. It doesn't make sense to pay 4x the cost to get apple to replace your battery once, or maybe twice if they give you a really crappy one.
QUOTE(Mike Giacomelli @ May 21 2007, 21:36)
QUOTE(Gow @ May 21 2007, 15:31)
It is why I grabbed that 2 year Applecare plan for the Nano.
Replacement Ipod batteries cost less then 10 dollars shipped, and last 18 months. It doesn't make sense to pay 4x the cost to get apple to replace your battery once, or maybe twice if they give you a really crappy one.
The Nano 2nd Gen's battery cannot be replaced. It is why I got the Applecare plan. Let alone 14 days after I received the first one its pin that allows it to transfer files went out and I had to have the thing replaced. Granted that was in the 90 day window but I figured it was better to be safe than sorry and have a backup plan that lasts two years.
As for Rockbox, keep in mind that only the 5.5 Gen. iPod is supported. The 80gb model and the 2nd Gen. Nano are not supported.
I would like to see Rockbox on Zune because I can have my audio files in more than WMA Pro, Mp3 and AAC. Maybe MPC or Ogg. Yet, the people who are closer to making this a reality are not affiliated with Rockbox.
I would also look at Meizu, Samsung, Creative and Cowon. Plus look at what is on the horizon, short term of course.
I got myself a 1Gb Chinese iPod Nano *clone*, and it plays OGG files (even if it does not mention it in its documentation). No click-wheel though, just buttons on the wheel (hey, it's just a clone!)
Ok, thanks for all the tips, a couple players that I had not heard of, the Zune and the iAudio, plus this Rockbox looks good.
Am not worried about video or iTunes, so neither of those limitations are a problem.
I have seen some very heavy duty rubber covers for the iPod, and I will need something that is fairly hard wearing.
Thanks for the help
Getting nearer to what I think i want
Neil
Am not worried about video or iTunes, so neither of those limitations are a problem.
I have seen some very heavy duty rubber covers for the iPod, and I will need something that is fairly hard wearing.
Thanks for the help
Getting nearer to what I think i want
Neil
QUOTE(Gow @ May 22 2007, 00:22)
QUOTE(Mike Giacomelli @ May 21 2007, 21:36)
QUOTE(Gow @ May 21 2007, 15:31)
It is why I grabbed that 2 year Applecare plan for the Nano.
Replacement Ipod batteries cost less then 10 dollars shipped, and last 18 months. It doesn't make sense to pay 4x the cost to get apple to replace your battery once, or maybe twice if they give you a really crappy one.
The Nano 2nd Gen's battery cannot be replaced.
It can, and the going rate for a replacement is about 9 dollars.
QUOTE(Gow @ May 22 2007, 00:22)
As for Rockbox, keep in mind that only the 5.5 Gen. iPod is supported. The 80gb model and the 2nd Gen. Nano are not supported.
80GB is now supported. Also, the 5G, 4G, Mini, and Nano 1G are supported.
QUOTE(Gow @ May 22 2007, 00:22)
Yet, the people who are closer to making this a reality are not affiliated with Rockbox.
Outside of a few rockbox people from the gigabeat port (which uses the Zune hardware), theres no one actually working hacking the Zune. The only other group was the Zune linux people, and they never did anything except talk and then ask for donations.
I recently bought a Meizu miniplayer which plays MP3, FLAC, Ogg vorbis, WMA, with decent sound quality and a full customiseable EQ.
Plus it handles xvid video and photos.
The screen is great for the size of it and the device looks really great as well.
The battery life was recently extended by a recent firmware upgrade - the official figure is 32 hours battery life now, and I get about 20-28 hours depending on the bitrates I'm playing etc.
You just copy data onto it as a removable drive which is super-convenient as it means I can script the copying from my own media centre interface I've made.
You can get 4GB and 8GB flash versions, which is plenty enough for my uses. And mine came in at only £90!
Plus it handles xvid video and photos.
The screen is great for the size of it and the device looks really great as well.
The battery life was recently extended by a recent firmware upgrade - the official figure is 32 hours battery life now, and I get about 20-28 hours depending on the bitrates I'm playing etc.
You just copy data onto it as a removable drive which is super-convenient as it means I can script the copying from my own media centre interface I've made.
You can get 4GB and 8GB flash versions, which is plenty enough for my uses. And mine came in at only £90!
QUOTE
It can, and the going rate fo a replacement is about 9 dollars.
$9 dollar battery.
Opening a 2nd Gen. Nano and removing a soldered on battery to solder another battery...
Frustration of dealing with tiny parts and a soldering iron...Priceless
Messing with a soldering iron and a $250 PMP with a chance of screwing it up just to save $41 is not my cup of tea, joe, tomato juice, soda, et cetera. Others out there who love that sort of stuff or like to save all the money they can...go to town.
English Literature Major = Me
Electronic Hardware Tinkerer = Not Me
QUOTE
Outside of a few rockbox people from the gigabeat port (which uses the Zune hardware), theres no one actually working hacking the Zune. The only other group was the Zune linux people, and they never did anything except talk and then ask for donations.
Meh, I quit paying attention to all the little details on Rockbox ages ago since I don't use it and yes I have heard about the Zune Linux folk. Though, I wasn't talking about them as they aren't the members on the ZuneBoards who are working towards adding more formats to the Zune a reality, moving out the realm of discussion or donation asking.
So far the only good thing about Rockbox is that it allows for the usage of MPC, which quite frankly is the only Rockboxed audio format that doesn't get horrible battery life when compared to the original firmware. Second would be Lame Mp3, though why would someone go to the trouble of putting Rockbox on just to use Mp3 is beyond me, other than using a better decoder...maybe.
Neil,
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/
I find that this website tends to have a lot of information on other audio players out there beyond Apple. It is how I found out about the Zune initially and tons of other companies out there. Finding a iPod site is easy but finding a site that goes into detail of what is out there and on the horizon on audio players besides the ones made by Apple was hard until I found this site.
You can probably find an Audio player you wouldn't have to hack and get all the stuff you want.
Or maybe decide on the iPod by eliminating other options.
It can work either way.
If you have a chance play with the models in store and look at others besides the Apple iPod, Microsoft Zune and Creative Zen. Obviously, the electronics geek will most likely sell you an iPod because that is all they know about. Is that where you think you need to stop? (Applicable to anyone)
Hell, before I went on got the Zune I was going to grab an iPod Video for a Harddrive audio player because that is all I knew to be supposedly any good.
A life not examined.
also have a look at the sandisk sansa e208: amazon-link
8GB, acts like normal usb drive, fm radio.. (only id3v2 tags no v1.. thats the only thing that pisses me off)
and you can change the battery (4 screws on the back side) - a new one will cost you ~ 15$.
rockbox works on it too but it is still in early development (sound quality isn't perfect and battery life not good)
but you can expect it to reach full functionality pretty soon.
8GB, acts like normal usb drive, fm radio.. (only id3v2 tags no v1.. thats the only thing that pisses me off)
and you can change the battery (4 screws on the back side) - a new one will cost you ~ 15$.
rockbox works on it too but it is still in early development (sound quality isn't perfect and battery life not good)
but you can expect it to reach full functionality pretty soon.
QUOTE(Gow @ May 23 2007, 06:55)
QUOTE
It can, and the going rate fo a replacement is about 9 dollars.
$9 dollar battery.
Opening a 2nd Gen. Nano and removing a soldered on battery to solder another battery...
Frustration of dealing with tiny parts and a soldering iron...Priceless
Messing with a soldering iron and a $250 PMP with a chance of screwing it up just to save $41 is not my cup of tea, joe, tomato juice, soda, et cetera. Others out there who love that sort of stuff or like to save all the money they can...go to town.
English Literature Major = Me
Electronic Hardware Tinkerer = Not Me
Didn't realize the 2G required soldering. On earlier Ipods, you can just open it, unplug the battery, and plug in a new one.
QUOTE(Gow @ May 23 2007, 06:55)
So far the only good thing about Rockbox is that it allows for the usage of MPC, which quite frankly is the only Rockboxed audio format that doesn't get horrible battery life when compared to the original firmware. Second would be Lame Mp3, though why would someone go to the trouble of putting Rockbox on just to use Mp3 is beyond me, other than using a better decoder...maybe.
Rockbox gets better battery life then the retail firmware on most targets. Remember, the Ipod port is new, and still has issues.
To me the playable formats are the main advantages for using Rockbox too, especially with respect to wavPack lossy and MPC.
Other than that Rockbox has a lot of interesting features as well, but whether that's a real advantage is a matter of taste and also depends on the degree to which Rockbox works fine on the DAP under consideration. I like Rockbox on my iRiver H140 very much. Highly appreciated.
Other than that Rockbox has a lot of interesting features as well, but whether that's a real advantage is a matter of taste and also depends on the degree to which Rockbox works fine on the DAP under consideration. I like Rockbox on my iRiver H140 very much. Highly appreciated.
Something interesting and what I could try this fall is swapping out the Zune's Harddrive and battery and replacing it with either the 100gb or 80gb Harddrive plus the extended life battery. There are extensive guides to doing it on ZuneMods.net plus the model numbers of parts to use. Considering the fact that there is no soldering required and it only requires a phillips and flathead screwdrivers it could be something I could do. Of course, I would be extremely careful while doing it but with the Best Buy Warranty on this thing I could breathe a little better than going out on a limb.
That would probably be a better upgrade approach than going after the Zune 2.0 or Flash Zune.
Not that anyone of you have to pay attention to what I am typing or have typed. Just throwing it out there as some project for Zune users.
http://zunemods.net/Hardware_Mods-chapter2.html
It also looks like you can set up the Zune as Portable HD and mod the Zune FM Transmitter for greater signal strength.
Of course, the Zune being bigger than the Nano makes a big difference in my even attempting this plus the biggest factor...no soldering required. Doing computer hardware I can do but when it starts involving soldering I say No.
Out.
That would probably be a better upgrade approach than going after the Zune 2.0 or Flash Zune.
Not that anyone of you have to pay attention to what I am typing or have typed. Just throwing it out there as some project for Zune users.
http://zunemods.net/Hardware_Mods-chapter2.html
It also looks like you can set up the Zune as Portable HD and mod the Zune FM Transmitter for greater signal strength.
Of course, the Zune being bigger than the Nano makes a big difference in my even attempting this plus the biggest factor...no soldering required. Doing computer hardware I can do but when it starts involving soldering I say No.
Out.
QUOTE(lazka @ May 23 2007, 06:25)
also have a look at the sandisk sansa e208: amazon-link
8GB, acts like normal usb drive, fm radio.. (only id3v2 tags no v1.. thats the only thing that pisses me off)
and you can change the battery (4 screws on the back side) - a new one will cost you ~ 15$.
rockbox works on it too but it is still in early development (sound quality isn't perfect and battery life not good)
but you can expect it to reach full functionality pretty soon.
Actually, the sound gap between the original firmware and Rockbox has been diminished greatly in the last week. My Koss PortaPros are driven MUCH better with proper a proper kick when it comes to bass. Additionally, someone's already managed to get 12+ hours in battery life utilizing Ogg/MP3 Playback: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10446.0
You also forgot to mention it has a microSD slot for a maxium of 10GB storage capcity (currently).
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