I'm shopping around for a new player. I'm looking for something that isn't Apple or have any DRM tied to it, and that will hold music in the 2GB-5GB range. Preferably flash-based.

Any recommendations?

Thanks

The sansa players are nice and support ogg right out of the box. 2, 4, and 8 gig I think.

You mean the e200 series?

http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(11...P3_Players.aspx
_

But it has DRM (P4S), which is not what he wants...

I don't think having DRM capabilities is a problem - they don't have to be used. I think what b83768 meant is forced DRM - which encrypts everything you put on the player, such as with Sony players.

Cowon X5 or D2: ogg, flac and ape... drag n drop.

Since he said "any DRM tied to it" I assumed it was more an ideological issue.

How about the Trekstor Vibez:
www.trekstor.de/en/products/ detail_mp3.php?pid=66&page=1

Ogg, flac up to 12 Gb, flash, nice design.

I have one of the few surviving rio Karmas. I love it. Unless it dies on me, I have no need for a DAP right now...

Cowons D2 model is a good one.

Cownon D2

I'll put in another vote for the D2. Just got mine about two weeks ago.
Supports Ogg, Ape, and Flac in addition to MP3. Holds 4GB and accepts SDHC cards on top of that, currently up to 8GB. Voice recorder, FM tuner, and it plays videos. Great power & sound quality and fantastic battery life.

Unfortunately, it doesn't support playlists very well (there is a workaround, but it isn't very convenient), and there are still some firmware bugs to work out (such as browsing ogg files using tags). Still, I think it is the best flash memory player out right now, and Cowon seems to be working on firmware improvements very actively (they seem to have a very good reputation for maintaining firmware).

Meizu M6 4gb plus Meizu is working on some new stuff. Cowon another good company. There is also the Creative Zen V Plus.

There are actually quite a lot of players out there. Check through, http://www.anythingbutipod.com/ might turn up something interesting since they track player development of even the smaller companies.

Also definitely check out http://dapreview.net/

Vorbis? Since when?

I can live with P4S as long as it's not tied to anything like iTunes or Zune's WMA or any of the dirty tricks Sony plays. Since I use Linux as well as Windows, the player has to be recognized by both.

I also didn't like what Samsung did by caving in to Microsoft and not letting their latest players not be recognized as an external drive with a drive letter. For the time being, it's still drag and drop, but how much longer...

Cowon D2 is about 2 dollars for 4 GB. A factory-refurb apple nano is 130 Dollars for 4 GB, or 200 for 8. You can rockbox it then.

only with rockbox.

Factory refurb? No thanks!
Also, you're comparing these based on size alone, but the Cowon does much more than the iPod. Besides that, I think 4GB is very adequate. You can only listen to so much music at a time. Also, the Cowon accepts SDHC memory cards, and the price of those should be coming down as capacity increases.

iPod lives forever (because of iTunes.)

Yet he is not looking for an Apple player. So why is iPod involved?

I'm sorry I got a bit too excited about the oportunity to recomend my favorite player I didn't realize (paid attention) that he doesn't want one.

Who care if it is a factory refurb, it is only $2.00 . That is a steal by any means even if the player is factory refurbished.

I'll put another vote for the Sandisk Sansa e200 series. They look very nice (although I haven't used one yet), if I didn't have a Nano, I'd seriously consider those as another option. They seem to be really changing their company's image with products like those. As far as I know, they only support MP3 and WMA out of the box.

Yes, the Sansa does look nice, but they don't seem to be Linux compatible.

And is there a way to get it to play other formats besides MP3 and WMA?

According to this review, you can change a setting on the Sansa that allows you to put music on it by drag and drop, allowing it to be virtually compatible with every OS (I imagine this includes Linux).

For the formats, you can get it to play others if you decide to use Rockbox.

The stock firmware is Linux compatible. The Rockbox firmware is also linux compatible, and works with MP3/Ogg/Flac/MPC/Wavepack/AAC.

Glad to hear about drag and drop. That's important. I'm not into creating playlists so I hope it will sort the files by it's ID3 tag. All mine have them.

Ummm interesting. So in a nutshell, Rockbox overwrites the firmware that comes with the models (listed on it's website) and installs it's own so you can play additional types of codecs? And it doesn't interfere with stock menus or control functions or anything?

Also I've been doing a bit of research on the Sansa e200 series and there were a lot of problems with freezes and player lockups. Was this ever resolved?

I googled and didn't seem to find a definitive answer for this.

Thanks.

Rockbox is a REPLACEMENT firmware. You can think of it as deleting Windows off your computer and installing a Linux alternative. You may not get to use some of the features on it or see the same menus anymore, but it will have its own interface, and different features (like more codecs supported).

I don't know anything about the freezing and player lock up issues since I have never used it before, but for the most part, no player is really perfect. I've had my iPod freeze up on me maybe 3 times now since I've owned it.

If you go to BestBuy, they often have different Digital Audio Players set up that you can try out. You can always give it a test drive there if you want to see it in action.

I just saw this on the net the other day and liked it very much. Your thread title says "hot" and this is the hottest player I've seen in a while (IMO). It's a matter of personal taste but just an idea for you:

Panasonic D-Snap SV-SD850N


It's sold here for $199.

Its pros: Very good looking (yes the japanese know what's good), 80 hr battery life, SD card support for future extendability, Noise cancellation.

Edit: You say you want no DRM tied to it, and I believe you should be able to transfer DRM free MP3 songs directly to this unit. However I believe SD cards have some sort of protection so you might not be able to download it back.

It does look pretty "hot", but $199US for 1GB and no color screen sounds really expensive. Is there an English model available or can you change the language on it?

No kidding. 200 buys you 10GB worth of Sansa.

I haven't used the unit but the language in the pic is just the tags I imagine. This unit is sold in some US stores and they don't mention the interface being in Japanese. The screen is not in color but it's an OLED screen and therefore the 80 hour battery life. Also it's slightly thicker than an iPod nano if I remember it correctly.

In the end it's about personal choice. Yes Sansa has a color screen and comes with 8G capacity. But is it hot? And that's what the thread was about.

BTW Another hot model to add into the list would be Samsung K3, (better pics here). It has spectacular user reviews at reviews.cnet.com.

Just got the Cowon D2 - the interface and clarity is near perfect.
Playback quality is awesome too and so is the power of this little thing.

Only real issue I have with it is: the actual options to 'add' music to whats currently playing and whats lined up to play is pretty poor. I'm comparing it to my old Zen Xtra which is what I was using up until I just got this.

With the extra I could 'Add to Playing Now' and 'Play now' for any level of the navigation so could add whole genres, artists, etc - with this the only option seems to be to go down to the very lowest level (per track) and double click one and it will then play the rest of the tracks in the folder.

Even with that however I still do love this player - its pretty overwhelmingly impressive - the interface is awesome with its touch screen.

Hell, I'm still rolling fine with my rockbox'd IHP 120.

You can find them for like $150 for a 20 gb model off of ebay nowadays. Great value, and it'll hold me through until the ultimate cell phone "life device" becomes a reality (by life device I mean something that does organizer, music, camera, GPS, and telephone all together in one little electronic gizmo...)

Except that Rockbox allows dual-booting into iPod's original software. CMIIW

Uh, no. You can get SD card readers for $10 and copy files from/to the SD card. The 'protection' SD cards have is 'write protection', i.e. a small tab you can slide to prevent writing to the card.

I saw the demo at Animax (yes, I'm an anime-lover. So? ) and the interface is really cool and schnitzy; all those animated dots. But I all the reviews I see, including this official Samsung page about the K3, does not indicate that the K3 plays Ogg Vorbis files... what happened to Ogg Vorbis support???

Rockbox for the Sansa installs itself by default as a supplement to the pre-installed OS (holding down a button while the unit powers on will load the old firmware, for instance).

With some of the latest builds of Rockbox on the Sansa, the only lockup I've had is when listening to the radio. My audio files (Ogg/mp3) are playing without a hitch. Since development is in a constant flux, I'm sure the radio lockup will be ironed out in the near future.

I would say the E200 series has been given a "hot" rejuvenation with Rockbox capability at the level it is, especially for users on this site.

Pepoluan, Atici doesn't care about Vorbis. I suspect, though, that the Samsung unit *probably* has the support, it's just undocumented (like my JVC head unit!).

I really like the new: iRiver Clix2
It's available up to 8GB and it's flash based like you wanted it.

Here is a review.


iRiver clix2

Yes, that does look nice, but I don't see it as being available in the U.S. yet. Only the 1st generation clix is listed on iRiver's U.S. website.

Also, I hope it's UMS capable and not tied to Microsoft's WMA "Plays For Sure" garbage monopoly.

I just got a Sansa E260 and with Rockbox I couldn't be happier, problem is it doesn't get recognized by linux when using rockbox as the USB handler isn't yet finished, so you have to boot the original firmware to transfer files, correct me if I'm wrong.

Apple iPhone (coming June 29)


Although a multifunction device, I believe these are going to be pretty hot this summer.

the iphone is going to be very cheap ^^

My only objection to the iPhone is that, well, it's a phone. I'd love an iPod with a full operating system, WI-FI (only) internet access, and all the beauty of their interface... but I'm not going to switch to AT&T to get it.

- M.