There is "some kind of structure". Actually you can browse any playlist you like with CoverFlow. So you can choose a playlist in "list view mode", sort it the way you want, and then go to CoverFlow.

First, to Jose Hidalgo's Idea: This is simply impossible. I'm already working hard on getting the current solution work on my PC - loading all those images as textures is a lot of work in such a short time. Generating anything from them is just completely idealistic. This works great with single covers, but implementing this into coverflow is just impossible.

To stampgevaar's question: Coverflow is not a good way to browse the library. It's a fun way. If you want to access a specific album quickly you do this with a tree or a text-list.

Covers would still be in some order. Wouldn't it be fairly easy to implement a sort order that the user can build with default titleformatting? (Like: [%genre% %album artist% %year% %album%])

What about my suggestion?

Hi chronial,

I can understand that you may don't want to do that, simply because it wouldn't look like CoverFlow for instance. But please don't say it's impossible without giving it a try. Let's think about it for a second.

Of course it may require more GPU power. Of course there might be optimizations to be found (if searched for of course). Of course older machines may not be able to handle it. And all this probably means a lot of work. But I'm quite sure it's not impossible. Take a close look at modern, affordable CPUs (dual-core and even quad-core), not to mention modern GPUs capable of massive multi-parallel tasks. They can now handle 1080p movies @50fps with real time post-processing, and extensive 3D-consuming next-gen games with zillions of polygons, lots of shades, lights, reflections, anisotropic filters and so on. And all that amount of power wouldn't be able to handle a bunch of 3D-cases moving in the same direction ? I think that we have more power that we need, but we have to learn to use it efficiently. Remember that the original CoverFlow doesn't even require a lot of power to run : an old PC with an old GPU still can make it work to some extent !

So all right, it's easy to talk about it, and I may not have enough developing skills to do this myself (sorry about that ), but if you are not the first one to do it, then I'm sure that someone else will. Why ? Because after all, we are all pursuing the same dream : to re-create in a PC the same "vision" that we have IRL when we look at our CD collection. It's as simple as that.

So mark my words : 2D covers were the first step in that direction. CoverFlow is obviously the second step. But the whole jewelcases in 3D with front, back and side are the next step, no doubt about it. It's just a matter of time and programming skills. And I may be wrong, but I don't think that power is really an issue here.

Cheers and good luck with your fantastic project (yeah, it remains fantastic after all, of course ).

Jose

It must be like browsing your cd rack. Everybody with a large connection knows that if you don't have rules for placing in a cd can dissappear for long time. So the most people use the alphabet - hopefully coverflow will use it too.

Could a simple filter line do the job - a query that reduces the shown covers? Let's say: "genre IS Rock" and then only the albums are that match the genre.

My buttons as proposed:

I disagree with this statement, if it's true that coverflow is an "extra", but some albums are more known because of their covers than their names, especially for albums of the same artist, that's why the design of covers is studied..


But I'm waiting eagerly for coverflow plugin to see what it would do. Some will think that it's another plugin contributing for the bloatiness of foobar2000 but I consider it as another way to wander through the media library. Especially if covers are displayed either by directory structure or randomly or via other criteria

+1.

anddddd.... +1
To be more concrete:
i m already using Album Art Browser from Chris. If his component is nice to use, to display cover, it does not sort the display by criteria. Its unique criteria of sort is the name under the cover...(so if i want a sort by rating then date or whaterver i want, then i have to display rating date etc under the cover). [...]
I think criteria of sort is necessary.
I'm agree that many users sort their library by alphabetic order. But this is not a generality and i m not from those user. I sort my library by "autobiographic" order (using a specific tag).
I know Foobar is originaly created for a good and a quality listening.... but i am sure that a certain percent of us use it as well for its incredible powerful capability to "manage" our huge library.
Saying that is a bit restricted, no chronial? I appreciate a lot your work and for this, i am very thankful to you, to take a part of your time to make more sense to foobar, like an ... "evidence", a sort of pertinent use.
Only one ask: Is it that hard to make it both FUN and GOOD way to browse our "gold mine"... ;p
Cheers to you Chronial,
And have a nice Week-Start to all.

I can't imagine to use coverflow for browsing but that is everybodies own taste.

However i would stop discussion: the plugin is yet not released. Let's wait some time and then we can see what requests we have.

Absolutly Right ;p... (but the discussion might not stop when you want it to)

I was not asking more... but in fact only arguing with more words. lol

+1.

In fact the original CoverFlow works within a given playlist or selection. So if we can have playlists in foobar (Rock, etc.), then chronial's CoverFlow could work exactly the same way, either within a foobar playlist or within a bunch of selected files.

*push* any news? what I've seen so far looked very exciting...

waiting for news about this project ...

please, give us feedback : stopped ? no time for the moment for coding ? technical pb ? ... so a sign of life

Br3tt

Yes, I agree : I don't care when there will be a beta or some sort of operational version, but what I'd like to have is some REGULAR feedback on this project. Some information would help. Thanks Chronial.

any news?

the pi

I'm very sorry to say this, but this lack of news is beginning to smell like vaporware... no offense intended of course, but if foobar's CoverFlow implementation was really as advanced as we could see in the page 1 (it looked quite functional then), then we would already have gotten our hands on some beta to test. Instead of that, we have... no news at all. What can we say ?

Sorry chronial, but you really should have given some more news on this one instead of just saying nothing. I wish I'm wrong and some real software comes out SOON. Thanks.

Sorry to say, but I'm getting really tired to hear complains from people who think developers have to dedicate all their life and soul for the benefit of the community. Those who are concerned should really stop thinking only about themselves. The whole aspect of development for this software is based on volunteering, so there is absolutely no place for any kind of expectations on how the output of work should be or anything. People are free to invest their free time in development whenever they like and in whatever way they like and it is in the natural order for them to expect gratitude from the others. In my point of view, arguing and putting pressure on the programmer only contribute in eating out this community by lack of gratefulness. Count yourselves already lucky to have such a generous variety of (free) components available, plus a (free) rock solid media player and a (free) support forum with well qualified members.

This might be a bit overreacted, but I have this one on my mind since a while. I'm not talking for anyone else than me expressing my point of view.

Well said.

Now, i really need a CoverFlow panel for my config ! (not finished, just started yesterday )



Please, help us Chronial

Br3tt

He hasn't been online since 18th October 2007; thats 17 days. Maybe he's busy, maybe he forgot about this place, who knows. I loved this idea, and hopefully someone makes it a reality. Even a demo with some very minor functionality would be wonderful .

It shouldn't be so hard with C# and XAML. I'm just beginner in programming, but when I'll reach the next level, who knows...

Here's an example from a guy called Cleb who lost interest ages ago...he'd be happy to make it opensource if a "dedicated" developer wanted to work on it...

http://labs.beffa.org/coverplay/

Ok, I did some study, and it is really simple for anyone who knows the XAML construction and how it's linked with C#. For now I am learning XAML and C# separatly, so I don't really know how to bind it together. I don't know how the Foobar API looks like, but if it doesn't obstruct programmers work...

Well... I've made some 'not working' sample. I mean I did the black background, loaded the covers and take them into right positions. The only problem for me now is how to change attributes in XAML from C# loops or the timer component (it's necessary to make covers move).

Just making a panel display cover looking like a Coverflow panel for my iFoo config



I hope i'll modify my config to put a real Coverflow panel asap

Br3tt

You guys are aware that you can host WPF content in a Win32 window, right? CoverFlow has already been implemented in WPF, it's very easy.

Someone should just write a generic WPF content host that can host any WPF UIElement class. Want a new kind of panel? Write it in WPF and host it with the plugin. You could even implement an ADO.NET data source for databinding.

Once that's done, you could very easily write a new WPF GUI for foobar2000.

Just so that you understand me well : you have overreacted because you have misunderstood me. I am NOT one of the people you describe, and I am not asking anything here. Hell, I don't even care if chronial's CoverFlow becomes available one day, there are more important things in life.

The only thing I'm saying is that WHEN a developer decides to work on a popular project like CoverFlow, and WHEN he creates a buzz around his project (by posting videos for instance), THEN the least he can do is keep people informed on a regular basis and answer their questions. No more, no less.

Like I said, chronial may take all the time he wants. He can even drop the project if he wants, that's OK with me. The only thing I'm asking is for some information so that people can stop asking the same questions over and over again ("when will there be a beta", etc, etc. - you know the story). Just a bit of information. Is that so difficult ? I don't think so.

Let me tell you a story. There's some developer out there in HA forums, his nick is McoreD. He may not be the best developer in the world, but at least he's proactive. You ask a question, he answers quickly. You report a bug, he thanks you and he patches it in the twinkle of an eye. You submit an idea, he thinks about it, and he doesn't hesitate to modify his own conception of the software to better fit user's suggestions (instead of saying "that's not MY point of view, so I won't implement it, and I don't care if you guys think different", like some developers do). He's not self-centric, he's kind, intelligent, and most of all, user-centric. I don't even know McoreD personally, but I think most developers out there should learn from him.

Programming skills are essential, but all the rest may be even more important IMHO.

Totally agree with you, Jose.
It's just a matter of respect for the fb2k community.

One of the most essential skills is being able to say no to bloat requests.

I'd rather say that one of the most essential skills for a programmer is being able to discern all the intelligent / useful requests from the others. Just being able to say "no" is not really a skill. Some programmers feel compelled to say "no" every time a request goes against their point of view. That's a big mistake and a proof of over-self-confidence IMHO (I hope this is the right word, english is not my native tongue).

Sorry for the off-topic. Let's get back to CoverFlow... if there's any news about it of course.

It's nice that my plugin has created such a heavy discussion about development here ^^.
At first: I'm still alive as usual - I don't visit the forums since I get every reply via mail.
About the component: It has not changed in any way since the video. From what I read on the coverplay page I'd say that my plugin is a little bit further developed than this one. I don't develop it a the moment since I just do not have the time to so.
About a beta: Releasing my version would be no use for you, since the image filename, the album path and the foobar executable are hardcoded. I could of course change that, but I don't consider this useful as long as it is this unflexible. In addition - any work I would do to release this stand-alone program would be completely useless in regards to a release of a foobar component.


I have to completely support eejadx's statement. But I know that barely any non-developer will understand this. The developers do not owe you anything at all. They spend a lot of time to make their components usable by others (no component would need an options dialog - you could hardcode all that). But I know how this sounds to a non-developer (I have been one some time ago, too), so just forget about it.

About the news: I won't post a "still nothing new" post as a reply to every "any news?" post. As soon as there are news, you will hear them.

And about the C#/XAML thing: well, everyone with a decent knowledge of C++ and OpenGL/DirectX can write that, too. Except it will be faster, smaller and run on non-Vista machines

That's only partially true. For one, you don't need Vista, only .NET 3.0. For something like CoverFlow it would be unnoticably slower, since WPF 3D uses DirectX. MSIL bytecode assemblies are typically smaller than native binaries because they depend on the CLR instead of statically linked or included code. Doing it in native code would also result in it being potentially less reliable and certainly less expandable. WPF is enormously powerful, if you had a component that could host a WPF control, you could write an entire WPF GUI, which has enormous benefits (I realize this is not your goal, but that was simply the point I was making in my other post).

Well, I have to agree with Chronial. At least he has given some news, and that's all I was asking for. So thanks to him.

FYI, I do support Chronial's work (really !), like I will support any other initiative from any other developer towards a future "CoverFlow for foobar" component. Thanks everyone.

Now let's get busy until someone comes up with some good news.

Maybe a new hope from Korea !

http://mytheme.net/zboard/view.php?id=freeboard&no=13833

it seems to be really good I hope it will be released soon

looking good.

to all developers working on such a thing:
maybe get in contact with the guy who code this one for windows-machines for some brainstorming: link

good luck and KEEP IT UP!

Bad News: I had just finished restructuring my whole code and playing with different rendering positions (aligning the covers in a circle looks really nice and gives that nice spinning effect ;), when I realized something really bad: I won't be able to run the next foobar version (still running Win2k, and that won't change within the next time).
Well long story short: Since I won't be able to develop for the current foobar version, I won't invest a lot of time just to create a plugin only those few that are running an old foobar version can use :/.

Maybe I'll create a standalone version, but I'm not sure about that.
The sourcecode is quite structured now and you can mail me, if you'd like a copy.

I thought that 0.9.5 foobar is backwards compatible with 0.9.* versions. Actually I use components that weren't updated for quite a long time already.

Aww bummer
Was it meant to be a panels component? Would you need to change a lot for it to work on the latest Foobar version/Xp you think?
Aren't there things the community can do to help out with testing on XP for instance? I'm no coder so I'm probably underestimating the matter.

it doesn't matter how much has to be changed - as a long as I can't debug it, I can't develop it.

I think that as long as it can work on a 0.9.x version it should work on XP up to 0.9.5. Is what you have so far at least functional for you? If it is, maybe compiling a .dll and sending it out to a few testers who use XP to see if it works?

Hopefully something gets figured out, or at least someone takes over your project .

IMHO someone taking over the project (with credits to chronial of course) would be best.

Just FYI, AFAIK Columns UI / Panels UI components can run painlessly with the new 0.9.5 and its Default UI : you just have to install Columns UI and Dockable Panels. The components (e.g. Peakmeter, Lyrics Show Panel...) do appear over the Default UI and you can place them wherever you want (over the UI or at the sides, etc.).

Maybe here: http://aqua-soft.org/board/showthread.php?t=46566 author made a working CoverFlow. Someone shuld just implement it and connect with Foobar (author said that this will be open-source).

D'oh! Could you please just release the plug-in for older versions? Because I'm one of those few running an older version and I'm not planning to upgrade. I was so looking forward to that thing

All right - I took the time and added some input to the code. So here's an alpha demo version for you:
http://chron.visiondesigns.de/bin/chronflow-alpha-demo.zip

I don't want this to be distributed any further, since it is not really ready for release.

It scans recursively for images (.jpg, .png, .bmp). If your cover images have special names you can give them as parameters (eg. "chronflow.exe folder.jpg" will only display images named "folder.jpg").
This is not really ready for release, but I wanted to show you the cool spiral flow (which I really enjoy playing with ^^). If I release this as a foobar plugin, style of cover flow will be completely costumizable via formatting strings, so the spiral is only an example.
The default.png is the image that is shown for not yet loaded covers. If you have anything better for this (I just took my albumimg-panel no-cover image), feel free to post it since I will need this for a release.
Controls are: left arrow/right arrow, pg up/down, mouse wheel and clicking on covers.

You can only scroll through the images - it doesn't start an application do anything else.

This is only an alpha version, but if you find any bugs, feel free to report them - maybe I don't know it already .

The spiral is pretty cool (albeit a bit headache producing ;-)

Would make a pretty slick screensaver.

Came late to the topic, wanted to add a few points


The developer should have the right to reject any feature request for any reason whatsoever. Especially for component developers, you usually write a component that you will use. If there is a feature you wouldn't use, why spend the time? Providing source code such that other interested users could contribute the code for additional features, in my opinion, is well above what should be expected of a developer, yet many developers here do just that. If you need the feature so badly, write it yourself. You have no idea how frustrating it is when random people tell you how best to do your hobby!


Wow, you really want to make that argument?? Sure, the assembly itself is very small, but it is useless without the 30-50MB of extraneous crap the .NET framework piles on. You do realize those assemblies won't work without the redistributable, right? So, when comparing the size between the two, you must include the size of the entire framework.

Not to say .NET isn't a viable option or a decent platform, you just can't make the size argument. With Vista, you would already have it installed, so that does make it a little trickier, but as you said, it's still a dependency.

Duh? Don't try to be a witty smartass and patronize me. I'm not an idiot.


No, because you don't have to distribute the framework with every application. Yes, some people might not have it installed, in which case it needs to be distributed, but a lot of other software already requires it, and it's available on Windows update, so I'm assuming that many users already have it. I don't have any statistics but please, the framework does not at all count as size of the executable.

It doesn't matter anyway, even the largest binaries are tiny by the standards of the past decade, I was only pointing out that what he was saying wasn't strictly true.

Very very cool! Nice work chronial

Dont wanna spam, but the spiral is pretty sweet.