Anybody bought or heard these yet? I'm considering replacing my Senn CX-300's with a pair of SE530's. I currently mate my CX300's to a HeadRoom Micro amp with the "desktop" chip. I'm curious what type of bottom end response the 530's get.

I understand there's a HUGE price difference between the CX300's and the SE530's but ideally, I'd like to replace my CX300's and even my reference Senn HD-580's, with the SE530's. Am I dreaming?

There is a huge difference in price, but also a huge difference in sound. I just sold my E500s, not because it wasn't a great headphone, but because it wasn't a good match with my Sony NW-A808. The 808 is quite detailed and crisp, and the E500s are (in my opinion) extremely detailed but quite cold which made the overall effect too bright for me.

There's no real comparison between the CX300s and the E500s, I've had both - once you hear the clarity of the E500s, it's quite hard to go back and listen to the 300s!

I thought the E500s had great bass, (without any boost) much more than the E4s I had, and if it wasn't for the mismatch with my player, I'd have kept them.

Think about what sound you're looking for before you fork out all that money - although you could sell them on eBay if you didn't like them, I sold mine on Amazon and got all my money back! Now I've ordered the Westone UM2s because there's been some positive comparisons between those and the E500s - plus they're a lot cheaper.

I ordered mine from Earphone Solutions and saved $44 because they have a 15% sale on until Juy 4th. Total inc. postage was $279 which was about the maximum I was prepared to pay anyway, so a lot cheaper than the E500s and supposedly a little more 'musical' and 'involving' than the E500s.

I'm sure you'll get tons of opinions about them anyway - it's very hard to quantify 'sound' when we all 'hear' it so differently!

Agreed! CX300-vs-SE530’s is not a fair comparison. But, what I’d like to do is also use the SE530’s to also replace my Senn HD-580’s. I think the Shure 420’s would be a fairer price comparison since the UM2’s and 420’s are both dual driver set ups. I’m still in the “research” stage, but I was considering ordering them from HeadRoom. They have a 30 Day Satisfaction Guarantee so I would only be out the shipping. I’m not familiar with Westone. I would very much like to hear your feedback on the UM2’s, especially since you’ve owned the E500’s.

Thanks for the feedback! Hmm…I’m a bit surprised that two “newbie’s” are the only ones on this forum that have any feedback on this topic.

Well, I haven't tried the SE530s but I have ordered from HeadRoom several times and can highly recommend them.

I am currently using a pair of Shure e4c's and with the new black foam tips I love them.

I can understand julikat's comment that they aren't very lively, but they work well for me.
JXL

JunkieXL: Agreed! Headroom was first-rate when I bought my Micro amp. Question. Just curious, how's the bottom end on your E4c's?

Quick and Junkie:

Junkie, I preferred the E4's much more than the E500s for acoustic, classical, folk and flamenco. The detail and clarity that came through with songs that have a very simple background, for example, on: Tea for the Tillerman, Neil Young Unplugged. . . was unbelievable. I could listen for hours and hours without ever tiring of it - so they were plenty 'lively' with that style.
But as that forms only about a 1/3 of my music, I wanted something that would be more of an all-rounder, even if that meant sacrificing some of the E4 clarity.

Quick, I'm hoping to get the UM2s by Saturday and will definitely report back. I can't say if the E500s would replace your HD580s because I don't have them, so you have to wait till someone who's used both can give you a comparison! I can only say that despite all the hype and anticipation of the E500s, they never really excited me. I don't know any of the 'technical' terms to use, but in plain language, I didn't enjoy the separation on the E500s, I felt all the instruments and vocals were too separated, so that nothing 'joined' together in my head. . . does that make sense? In that respect, I didn't feel very involved with the music - I could 'appreciate' the 500s for their clarity and detail - but I didn't feel a huge sense of enjoyment when I listened to them - and for what they cost - I expected a huge something!! So I appreciated them more than I enjoyed them. Also didn't like them at all at lower volumes as they sounded ordinary without some loudness.

RE: Bottom end of E4 - I found that the bass depended on 3 things - the seal, the player's bass output, and the equalizer properties. Although the E500s had a lot more bass than the E4s, it didn't matter as I found the bass on the E4 perfectly adequate. Again, this was with my 808 which has an excellent equalizer. I got the bass spot on, thumping, tight and not lacking in any way at all.

Then I experimented with an identical track on a friends Creative Zen Vision:m, and there was no bass at all, none, nada, zilch! Even EQing hardly helped. I can only think one has more bass output than the other, which of course makes comparisons difficult as we're not listening with the same equipment.

My tuppence worth is if you appreciate detail and separation over warmth and involvement, then you'll probably like the E500s. But wait for the flurry of replies and advice first, before making any drastic decisions! As for me, I'm giving up after the UM2's - it's too time-consuming to chase the elusive perfect sound. . .

The bass response really depends a great deal on the seal; as mentioned above. I was just listening to an e-mix by Mark Ronson (house music w/ lots of bass) in an arcade during my lunch break. Using the new black foam tips that came out for Shure's new SE line, the bass and sound quality was excellent. Deep rich bass with clear highs. FYI... I was using my 3rd gen iPod with the EQ set to Electronic

I can also say that the seal was extreme enough to block out the noise from the D.D.R. machine that was 5 feet behind me and all of the noise from the 5 zillion kids that had A.D.D. and were on a sugar high...

I'd highly recommend the e4c's to anyone looking for a good IEM type headphone.

I have heard that the new SE420's (the new '07 e4c counterpart) are slightly better, though I haven't tried them for myself yet.
JXL

Edit: Typos...

Quick, the SE420s are going to sell for about £200 here in the UK, and about £175 from the US - and the UM2s are available for £125, and they're both dual drivers. I'd considered the SE420 but was worried that they'd be too cold.

I read that the SE series was designed for the consumer (rather than for professional monitoring) so the sound signature should be slightly different to the E series (except for E500 and SE530 which are the same phone with different accessories) - but I didn't want to spend so much before at least trying the UM2s and if I don't like them, they'll go back or appear on eBay! If that happens, despite my determination to stop looking for the perfect sound, I'll probably still try the SE420 as a last resort, and then I'll definitely give up, or will I???

Good feedback guys!

To be honest, I'm having second thoughts about spending ($450 USD) on the SE530's! The SE420's ($350 USD) are due out in a few weeks according to all reports. Also, I've read some really good reviews about the UM2's. But, my concern is that the UM2's have been out for several years and may be replaced in the not to distant future. Of course, that's just speculation on my part. I think I'm going to concentrate on getting the most feedback on the UM2's and the new SE420's. As I said earlier, I'm still in the research phase of this process so I won't be buying anything for at least a month or two.

julikat: Let us know what you think of your new UM2's.

Hi,

I own the E500. I don't like them at all.
For me the multi-driver on a headphone is sonically a big mistake, even if on a marketing point of view, it's a good way to sell headphones for the price of three. A multi-driver system for classical speakers is a mean to give a high level of sound with a fairly large frequency response. But you have a price for this: phase issue. Currently, no multi-driver speakers I'm aware of don't have this issue. Some can handle it more transparently, but when you use a multi-driver system, you need cross-over filters and therefore you will have phase distortion.
The benefits of the headphones are to be able to deliver a full range sound at a sufficient level for the ears. Therefore, no phase distortion. For me this problem is really perceptible with the e500. Between 2.5 khz and and 6 khz, the e500 are not coherent at all. It's probably why it's not a professional earphone (and I'm audio engineer).

Now, if you want to buy it, I can sell mine (they are currently on e-bay). Just let me know.

marcan: Thanks for the good info regarding phase distortion. I've read several dozen feedback/reviews on the UM2's and this issue was never mentioned as a problem. Hmm...in addition to cost, yet another reason not to consider a three driver set-up.

From an audio engineering aspect, would this be a non-issue for a two-driver IEM setup?

See, there's the technical bit that goes far over my head. Marcan, would your theory explain why I also didn't enjoy them, and why I didn't feel any 'unity' in the music, if that's the right word? Or would that produce some other issue that I wasn't aware about? And can you please confirm what Quick asked about whether this applies to dual drivers too. Thanks





Quick, I'm beginning to think the UM2s are going to be like the super.fi 5 pros I had, too warm and thick - in which case I won't like them, and I'll definitely try the SE420 as soon as it's available and sell the UM2s as 'almost new'. Rest assured I will definitely post my comments about the UM2s after I've listened to them for a few hours. Postal strike still going ahead, so they should be here Saturday or Monday.
Research as much as you can, it could save you a lot of money in the long run.
As for the E500s, I got mine new for $350 from eBay inc. postage to the UK, so my main concern about the SE420 was the fact it had less drivers and would cost the same, about $350 (for me in England). But I'm curious to see how they sound. If I love the UM2s, I won't need to try the SE420s, but I can already feel in my waters that I'll be trying the SE420s!

I e-mailed Shure about a definite date of release, and they said (3 days ago) that they had already started shipping internationally and that most of the stock would go to their online retailers first.

Same problem.
For me, the best in-ear is still etymotic er4s. Very flat but probably the more precise sound I ever heard.
I think you can have them for around 200 $.

It might be that you sensible to it.
Basically, you hear the basses and the high frequencies, but between both it's a complete mess for me. It's particularly obvious on vocals. I can clearly hear the driver of the high frequencies working separetely.
Normally you should hear the music, not the driver...


As written before, two drivers have the same issue.

Quick, Got an e-mail from Shure UK to say the SE420 will be available from July 9th here in the UK, so will probably get them from Amazon (great returns policy!) and see how they compare with the UM2s.
Expecting the UM2s in the next couple of days
[/quote]

julikat: Yes that's what I heard as well. Hmm...so you're going to do a side-by-side comparison, huh? And no doubt report back to your buddies at the Hydrogen Audio Forum? I knew there was a reason why we "Yanks" loved the "Brits"!

Keep us posted!

But of course I'm going to do a side-by-side comparison!! Now that I know I can return them to Amazon I will definitely buy them just to have the luxury of comparing them. You'll have to let me know exactly what info. you're after - remember I don't the technical stuff about 'muddy bottoms' etc - but I can do my best to explain the sound and where it's coming from so I can give you an idea. So feel free to compile a list of questions so you can find out as much as possible before you buy.

julikat: Here's what I'm looking for. I apologize in advance for the "snooty", "audiophile" lingo. But I really don't know any other way to describe what I'm looking for.

• Overall balanced and musical presentation for Rock, Jazz, Blues and Classical genres.

• Full, rich bottom with plenty of low-end reach but without being overpowering. Bass should be tight, not bloated.

• Transparent middle with clarity, detail and slightly forward sound on vocals.

• Detailed, mostly neutral high-end with just a very slightest hint of brightness but only at moderate-high volume levels.

• Through analytical and detailed sound, ability to reveal quality of source…ie…MP3 –vs- loseless signal comparison.

Quite honestly, as I said before, I’m looking for the sound of my Senn HD-580/600’s in the form of a more conveinient/portable package. I understand in the advance this is unlikely to happen but you can’t blame me for trying.

Quick - UM2's came today but haven't had a chance to listen yet. I'll do that tonight and post back first impressions.

By the way, you were talking about trying to replicate the sound of your Senn HD-580's. This is an excerpt from a review on Amazon comparing the Etymotic ER6i with the 580's. I thought you might be interested in reading it as the user makes direct comparisons.

"Etymotic Research ER6i: The sound quality is good. The following is a short, subjective comparison with the HD580. Bass: precise and measured, a bit thinner than the HD580, which are not bass-heavy to start with. Drums come out well defined and without smears. Low range strings are just beautiful. If you are a bass monkey, however, you may be disappointed unless you process the signal beforehand. These earbuds can reproduce a big bass if the source requires it or the listener so prefers; but they may need encouragement in the latter case. Midrange: sharp, pleasant, balanced. Never too present or too far. Almost as analytical as the HD580. What else is to be said? High: a lot more generous than the HD580, but still well controlled. When the source is good, it's a pleasure; if the source is poor it's not very forgiving. Even if evident, however, the high range is not overpowering. Watch out for cranky or noisy amps, like that built into my laptop: they are devastating to the ER6i. Perhaps this is the reason I had to improve on it . . .. Fortunately my external D/A is totally silent, no hiss at all that I can hear."

Excellent, this is the kind of feedback I'm looking for! Good find! His feedback is spot on and I agree 100% with his accessment. The 580/600's are great even without an amp. But, when you add a good headphone amp, they become simply stunning using WMA Lossless.

Hmm...so the 420's will be available next week huh? Cool!

They're coming tomorrow via special delivery! Meanwhile, I sold the UM2s after deciding I didn't really like the sound. I didn't use them with an amp as I'm only interested in 'portable' listening so it might be worth asking other people what they thoughtof them amped.

I didn't like that I had to turn them up loud for the quality to come through, as it was lmuch ouder than I would normally listen to - plus at lower volumes they sounded really ordinary (like the E500s). So bedtime listening would have been a no-no with both of them as I don't want my ears assaulted when I'm trying to sleep and as I said, the quality dropped off as soon as the volume was lowered.

Now, please forgive my non-audiophile lingo but here's what I 'heard'

Bass: I don't know what 'tight' or 'punchy' actually means - but the bass was good and I thought it was quite defined, ie., it didn't merge into one sound and become blurred. I liked the bass and didn't think it was overpowering, except with certain styles of music (more later)

Mids: Is this where most vocals and instruments are placed? If so, I wasn't keen on the vocals presentation. It felt very congested, a bit like the E4, vocals were playing in my brain with no space at all. I find that quite off-putting.

Treble: OK, I know what treble is, and I really sensed a lack of detail here, with cymbals etc hardly meriting a whisper. On 'Only Living Boy in New York - there are cymbals crashing throughout most of the song (in my right ear). With the UM2s, even after much EQing, I could not make out the cymbals at all, they were very faint, like someone clearing their throat in the distance??

I was expecting a much bigger soundstage so I found that disappointing as having to turn the volume up loud for them to shine, meant the 'in-my-head' feeling was extremely intense and I didn't like it.

My music is split - about 60% acoustic, classical, flamenco etc - and the rest is rock. The UM2's were very good with rock, but I could not bear to hear softer styles of music with them, as the bass tended to come across too prominently and seemed to upset the balance of more delicate sounds.

Finally, on a surprise note - I borrowed my friend's SE210 expecting to laugh her out of the house - and found they had the most enjoybale presentation I'd heard in combination with my NW-A808 (which is a very analytical player that desperately needs warming up for my ears to be able to tolerate it).
The vocals were the best thing - imagine standing at the front of the stage with the singer a few feet higher than you - the effect is very natural and realistic. The clarity was much better than the UM2s, the soundstage was bigger and I actually preferred them to the much more expensive E500s because they don't sound as cold. Soundstage is bigger than the E4 too, and without the brightness that used to cause my ears to ring!

Again, in non-audiophilic (is that a word??) language, the E500s produced a sound that was too separated for me - bass, mids and treble were so isolated from each other that I felt no sense of 'blending' (yes, that's my new non-audiophilic word thank you very much ) The SE210s were not much good with rock, but really quite acceptable with all other styles, so I'm assuming the SE420 will be better overall.

We'll see, as I never expected to prefer a single driver headphone to dual and triple drivers. Maybe it's to do with matching a particular headphone to the player that's being used - but if I could only pick one out of the UM2, E500, E4 and SE210, it would be the SE210, simply because the vocal presentation was so lovely. Closer than the E500s which made it feel more intimate, but not "in-the-head" as the sound comes from slightly higher up which really makes a difference.

Unfortunately, they're really fiddly to get a good fit. I had to keep pushing them in at an angle as without that - the sound was really tinny and echoey. Maybe the SE420's will fit better. So I'll let you tomorrow what I think of the SE420 - for the extortionate price they're charging, (about the same as the E500) - I expect them to be excellent!

Oooh oooh - I learnt a new AW (audiophilic word) - 'cohesive'. I know it's not strictly an AW but I think this might explain what I meant when I said I could hear the bass, mids and treble too separately in the E500s. Excerpt from a review below

"A poor crossover can result in the high and low frequencies sounding distinctly separate, resulting in a loss of cohesion when listening to music. Thankfully Shure hasn’t fallen foul of these issues. The dual drivers in the SE420s give a very good account of themselves, producing a completely cohesive sound – vocals are crystal clear while bass lines thump and flow through your head"

That's what I heard with the E500s - 'frequencies distinctly separate'. I know there are some really serious audiophiles out there who will disagree with me, since the triple-driver E500 is considered to be the Holy Grail of headphones - but that's what I heard, and tried to explain (poorly) in my previous post. The guy who wrote that review also said the E500s were the best he had ever heard - so I'm hearing separation and he's hearing something completely different. )

Mind you, he doesn't state what he's using them with, so unless you listen to the same song, same bitrate, same player and same headphones - you can't really judge what the other person hears since so many other factors are involved. What you really need is someone who's used the E500s with your exact setup - and songs and bitrate and player and. . . see what I mean?

As I said in my previous posts, lake of cohesion is the necessary evil of all multi-drivers system.
I felt that it was particularly noticeable with the e500.
I think also that multi-drivers for headphones is SONICALLY (not commercially) a non sense.

Julikat: Well done…bloody good job! Hmm…that’s strange, the UM2’s are listed with an impedance of 27 ohms, which is very efficient. I don’t understand why you would have to crank them up, for them to sound adequate. The lack of treble response, even after EQ’ed, would have killed the deal for me. Glad you were able to sell them so quickly. Wow, that is suprising that you preferred the 210's to the 500's!

If I’m not mistaken, the SE420’s come with several sets and styles of earplugs. So hopefully you won’t have a difficult time with getting a good fit on those. I don’t have to remind you that a good fit or “seal”, is critical for these IEM’s. I’m very much looking forward to your feedback on the 420’s!

Yes - I remember reading your post, and asking you if the triple-driver explained the reason I was hearing that 'separateness' and you answered that maybe I was 'sensitive' to it - but you didn't explain sensitive to what - the lack of 'cohesion'? If so, then I am very sensitive to it, I really don't like or appreciate that separation at all - but I know a lot of people like the E500 sound and almost 95% of all feedback is positive, so the frequency separation issue must be down to personal preference. All I know is I don't want to 'appreciate' my music - or sit there quietly noting minute little details like a nostril hair quivering in the wind, if the downside is that none of it is 'joined' together. So now I know I need some 'cohesion' in order to enjoy, rather than 'appreciate' the music.

Those SE420's are under pressure!

I know, I wasn't expecting to have to turn the UMs so loud. On my NW-A808 (which plays nice and loud) my normal listening volume (for decent sound quality to come through) is around 17/30 with stock buds - 15/30 with E4s - 13/30 with UE 5 pro - 15/30 with E500 (which is louder than the other phones but needs to be there to get the quality) and 14/30 on the UMs, which is way too loud for me want to listen to for long periods of time.

I did find out that other people also said it needed to be set slightly louder to shine, but again, I guess it depends on the players output etc.

I'll certainly tell you what the SE420 sounds like now I can encompass more 'audiopholic words' in my vocabulary - todays was 'cohesive' - tomorrow, something new. I will know 2 words by then. Yay me

I talked about phase problems.


It was exactly my perception, I can hear separately the two drivers (well there are three but two are identical) and no cohesion between them.

Obviously many people don't hear it because my e500 will leave at a very good price on ebay...

So, after 6 hours with the SE420's, I've come to another surprising conclusion. No AW's here, just plain talk!
They are (to my ears) virtually indistinguishable from the SE210's apart from how the vocals are presented. The SE420's sound as if the vocals are coming from behind a pane of glass. That's not to say they're distant, they're not - they're still forward but the actual tone sounds very slighty muted compared to the much more upfront presentation of the 210's. I prefer the vocals with the 210's without a doubt.

Bass, treble and mids are almost exactly the same, with the treble being a little more distinct with the 210's. In Leonard Cohen's "Closing Time" which is quite punchy and thumpy - I can make out what seems to be the faint shakings of a tambourine in the distance - but on the 420's I couldn't really make it out at all. It may not even be a tambourine but whatever it is is clearer with the 210's I tested a lot of Leonard Cohen's stuff as his post '84 voice is very deep and honeyed and I like headphones to replicate that as closely as possible. The 420s altered his voice making it sound more diluted whereas the 210s played it like he really sounds. While the bass is supposed to be 'extended' on the 420s, I didn't notice it - but bass on both phones was perfectly adequate to me as it's there, but it's not overpowering. I also preferred the mids on the 210s, they seemed much clearer.

I tried acoustic, rock, classical, blues - old Ray Charles stuff, Jean Michel Jarre - and in each case I preferred the vocal presentation of the 210's, whilst everything else was just about the same. I'd already read a review in iLounge that said the 210's and 310's were virtually indistinguishable from each other - they hadn't yet reviewed the 420, but when they do, I'd be curious to see if they say the same thing about them. I really expected to be more impressed, mainly because the 210's sound so good, and I naturally expected that 2 models up would be 100% better, and it seriously wasn't any better to my ears at all.

Soundstage was virtually the same on both.

Regarding Marcan's comment about multi-drivers producing a lack of cohesion due to phasing problems: Marcan, I didn't feel that with the 420s at all - only the E500s. There is better 'cohesion' here, it's just I didn't care much for the vocals.

Quick, re: the fitting. I found out what the problem was. I took a good look at both nozzles and the 210's is angled differently, slightly straighter than the 420 and other Shure models. I can get a seal, no problem, but because of the awkward angle of insertion, they don't want to stay put, they just want to wriggle out and the slightest mm change makes them sound bloody crap. You're not even sure when they're wriggling out, the sound just changes for the worse and then you know! That's the biggest downside of them for me, it is really hard to get them to sit in exactly the right place. I haven't had this problem with any other Shure headphones, just these. It took about 10 attempts to get them in position - and I imagine other people might experience the same problem and write the headphone off as being 'rubbish' which is exactly what it sounds like unless you're lucky enough to get it right the first time! The 420s are much easier to fit the first time and they stay put.
Whilst I accept that there are plenty of higher-end headphones out there, this particular one complements my cold and sharp 808. It's been very hard to find a headphone I can live with for this player and while I still maintain the E4c can't be beaten for acoustic, the 210 is a good enough all-rounder for my listening preferences, and it costs half of the 420! If only the fitting wasn't so temperamental, it is the most awkward model yet to get right.

To wind up, having tried the 210s, I couldn't possibly recommend the 420s to anyone at twice the price for the same sound and compromised vocals (to my ears at any rate). I'm going to hold on to the 420s for a few days and continue comparing them, but I don't see my opinion changing. I'm going to buy the 210s as my friend is already whining that she misses them! You might want to try the 420 yourself and see what you think. Your opinion could be completely different. Or wait until they're more widely available and you can get some more feeback. Maybe you could buy them from somewhere that offers a 30-day returns policy? Sorry I couldn't be more help.

julikat, outstanding job! Thanks for the time and effort you put forth.

Wow…this has been an “eye-opening” thread, to say the least! At three times the price, it’s hard to believe the SE420’s didn’t perform any better then they did. Speaking of fit, I’ve read that other reviewers that had a similar complaint about inserting the 420’s.

julikat: Ok, I have to ask the obvious question. How much better are the SE210’s than the CX300’s? Is the difference dramatic; are the 210’s worth the 150 bucks?

Do you guys never tried etymotic er4p/s or senheiser PX100?

marcan: I haven't.

I did try the PX100 and really liked them except for the fact that because it's an open-air headphone I had to turn them up to almost full to get the volume I wanted. They did produce a very natural sound that I liked a lot, it was only the volume problem that made me return them, well, that and the fact they leaked a lot!

Still haven't tried the Etymotic ERs because it seems to be common knowledge that they're a 'cold' phone - and as I have a 'cold' player, I didn't fancy the mix! Can you compare the Etys to anything else so that I could get a feel for the sound? I know it's hard to explain sound, so in other words, would you recommend the Etys if the player is cold?

julikat: Ok, I have to ask the obvious question. How much better are the SE210’s than the CX300’s? Is the difference dramatic; are the 210’s worth the 150 bucks?

OK, my partner has CX300s and I use them to watch DVD when I'm away as they're deep, loud and bassy, and films sound great through my laptop. But as I primarily listen to delicate music with a little rock thrown in, I found the bass too overwhelming for the more subtle stuff - acoustic, strings, clasical, very 'thick' sounding. I also felt the CX300s made me feel as if I had a cold, while the 210s made me feel like I just got over it and could hear everything clearly again. Without comparison to the 210s, the 300s are loud, bassy and 'oomphy'. It's only obvious what's missing when you go back to the 210s.

As for whether the 210s are worth the extra money, well, I have to say I think they're bloody overpriced, at least here in the UK they are. The cheapest I've see them for is almost £90, and the CX300s are available here for just £13, so it's a huge increase, but is it worth the cost? To me, yes, as I'm going to order them today! The difference between these and the CX300s is phenomenal as far as clarity and presentation of vocals is concerned. I don't need extra bass, I just need bass I can hear that sounds natural, and the 210s produce that for me. Whether they're worth more than 7x the cost of CX300s, probably not to everyone, but they are to me because I've tried so many others and this is the first that can do a very acceptable all-round job with all my styles of music. I haven't yet heard an iem that is 100% perfect, but the 210s are 80% perfect for me, so I'm going to buy them and stop looking for the next year at least!

By the way I just had to give the 420s another hearing today as I still couldn't believe they hadn't out-performed the 210s by miles and thought I should try again, just to make sure. So I listened for an hour, and then swapped back to the 210s with the same tracks, and I actually thought for a split second that maybe Shure got the models the wrong way round - they are not one iota better than the 210s. The 210s are 'fuller' and 'richer' and I'm not saying the 420s sound bad, because they really really don't, and without direct comparison with the 210s they do sound good - but they definitely come second to the 210s when it comes to the mids and vocal presentation. I haven't tested bass extension to any degree, but I'm sure once they're widely available, you'll get plenty of responses regarding the bass. I wish iLounge would hurry up and review them - they're probably all the same phone!

I would advise anyone who's thinking of buying the 420, to consider the 210 first at half the price. I accept that logic decrees the 420's must sound a whole lot better than the 210s, dual-driver blah blah blah - but I have yet to find a single instance where the 420s outshone the 210s. As I said, I haven't thoroughly tested bass extension, but I've run classical, rock (Led Zeppelin, Humble Pie, The Who) - JMJ, acoustic and blues through them, and still I can't hear anything on the 420s that would warrant paying twice as much money for them. Nothing, not a thing.

Quick, only you can decide if the 210s are worth so much more than the CX300s. What about considering Marcan's suggestion of Etymotics? They do apparently sound a little like your 580s, and they're much cheaper. I'd hate to recommend an expensive headphone (and the 210 is not cheap), especially if you can buy the Etys much cheaper. I am tempted to try them, just waiting for Marcan to tell me whether he'd recommend them for a 'cold' player.

Well, I've learned quite a lot during this thread. Thanks Marcan for explaining why I didn't enjoy the E500s, as so far in my quest for the 'perfect' headphone for my 808, I seem only to have enjoyed the sound of single-driver setups. Bigger then, is not always better! )

Excellent review julikat! Agreed, the CX300’s are bass heavy, but on my Samsung YP-Z5, I can EQ them out to a flatter response. I still find they have an overall good sound, if a little heavy handed. Of course they don’t have the clarity and soundstage of my 580’s, but for <$50 they are a great value. Well…looks like the single driver phones are kicking butt and taking names. Sounds like it’s down to the 210’s and ER4S’s.

marcan: Yes I’m throwing the ER4S’s in the mix, thanks for the suggestion.

Quick, this excerpt from a review of the 210s might be useful to you as well.

"The SE210 earphones are best for those looking for comfort and very good detail on mids and highs. The bass is tighter than the Shure "E" series so you will get more definition on the low end of the frequency range but it may also sound like "less bass" when playing heavier bass songs"

And PS - that reviewer mentioned the 210's comfort - but didn't mention if he spent the best part of his life trying to get them in the right position first!

Seriously guys. This thread begins to smell like blunt product promotion...

Hardly product promotion - just swapping information back and forth on various headphones that have been tried!

I wish I knew what "blunt product promotion" was.

Really Quick, shame on you - have you learned nothing in all this? It is clearly the opposite of "sharp product promotion". . . I mean, everyone knows that.

Hmm...ok, so "Sharp Product Promotion" would be us "Newbie's" pushing a piticular set of headphones/IEM's on the "Old Timers"...right!?

Yeah, keep bumping this thread on the frontpage.

Hey Mr Friendly Fandango - could you be clearer in what we're doing that obviously irritates you so much? It's a discussion forum isn't it?
Where are we supposed to 'discuss'?? Is there a way of replying to a post/thread without 'bumping' it as you say?
If so, it might be easier (and more friendly) just to say so instead of signing off with a scowly face

Manny as a "newbie", I can safely say I'm sure not feeling very welcome!

marcan: Did you buy your ER-4S's online? If so, who did you buy them from? Can't find a listing on Authorized Online retailers at ER's site.

julikat, how have you been getting on with the shure se210 over the last few months? Are you still happy with them as a fit to the sony walkman? Ive just bought the nwz A818 and want to upgrade the phones that come with them. I'm particularly interested in getting the custom fitted so as to use when traveling on coaches/planes etc Its expensive at £100 put if it cuts out the drone then I think its worth it for me. I tried some bose triport in-ear phones (£69) from a shop down toen. They were very comfortable and ideal where you need to hear what is going on around you. They only thing I didn't like was that although they were great on the bass, lovely with cello music and vocals but the top end sounded weak. The violin and flute concertos sounded better with the standard sony ear phones.