Hi

Is it possible to change the default value of Replay Gain to 83dB SPL instead of 89dB?

I usually listen to classical music. 89dB, while suitable for pop music, is a bit too loud and not enough dynamic for classical music. Also I have to use a calculator to tune down the value in every file when I try to use the normalize the volume.

On the other hand I also enjoy 89dB for pop music as it give me excitement.

Suggestion:

It would be best if foobar2000 can either:

Change the default value directly in "Advance" in "Preference", with a few guildlines like:
<83dB - Very wide dyanmic range. Only for special music, not recommended for casual listening as it would be too quite and noisy to hear - "When a mosquito meets a nuclear bomb"
83dB - Wide dynamic range. Best for Classical music, movie, and those with big loudness change - "When a fly meets an aeroplane"
86dB - [my personal taste for some instrumental performance like guitar which sound is weak in nature, or some vocal performance for some vocalists' voice is sharp but singing in solo]
89dB - Flat dynamic range. Best for pop music and TV show which tend to a range of loudness without much up and down.
91dB - Compressed range. For Radio only, rarely used. Wrongly use could cause clipping easily
>91dB - Special and customized use only. Easily clip.

or

Profile like choosing (IMO is better as the standard be better be promoted and a limitation that makes people "won't go too far")


Thank you again for all the hard work creating such a great player!

Stephen

Reference:
http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/level-practices-part-1.html

You can change replaygain preamp in preference > playback > preamp. or you can edit replaygain value (right click at song or select album > replaygain > edit replaygain info.

It's just not possible to "automatic change for your liking" you know...

This is one of the function in mp3gain:

Target "Normal" Volume__ (default 89.0)

Also please read what professionals say:

http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/level-practices-part-1.html

It is not "automatic change for your liking", but a value they suggest.

It should be 83dB instead of 89dB for movie and classical music. 89dB is suitable for pop music. Also they have to tune it up 6dB when recording on tapes because tapes are less sensitive than digital media.

People asking for 89dB because it is too quiet when listening to pop music.

Stephen

if you want 83db. easy, go preference > playback > preamp and lower the preamp value to 83db.

this is true.

..I think maybe the OP isn't not getting something.

Say you RG a classical piece. Are you saying that 89db is louder than most classical pieces?
i.e. that when you get the results window, you get a bunch of positive numbers that you store in tags, and this is somehow causing clipping? If so, then doing as Buktore suggests should change that.

Or are you talking about applying the gain to the actual file data? Then you might actually have problems.


As far as I know, 89db was selected somewhat arbitrarily, because for RG to work, you need some agreed upon consensus level, and the idea was never originally that you applied the gain to the data, but that you just tagged it and the player adjusted accordingly.


As long as you're not applying the gain to the data, you will not be experiencing quality issues if you adjust the slider where it needs to be.


Scanning RG is like paving a road. You're goal is just to make the road level.
It does not matter whether you are paving it 5 inches thick or 5 cm thick, it just needs to be the same.

@buktore:
Try play classical and pop music alternatively and you will see the problem - you have to keep tuning up and down the volume.

@shakey_snake:
1. I have many tools to keep my music from clipping. What I mean is different taste listening to different kinds of music. I would love to listen to louder pops but quiet classic with more space.

2. 83dB is a standard recommended by many professional with years of listening experience. Please refer to the original recommendation:

http://www.replaygain.org/

For the appearance of 89dB there are 3 reasons:
- The majority of people listen to pop music. So if only 1 value could be choose, then reluctantly 89dB.
- An adaption to the tend that music is getting louder and louder that risk clipping.
- Recording tapes need a bit louder as magnetic tapes are less sensitive.

Reference:

http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/level-practices-part-1.html

I listen to music directly with my headphones. 89dB is too loud for classical music.

3. Foobar2000 can write RG data on the tags only without touching the content, and can change the volume back from the tags. This is why I change from mplayer to foobar2000 as my player.

"Scanning RG is like paving a road. You're goal is just to make the road level.
It does not matter whether you are paving it 5 inches thick or 5 cm thick, it just needs to be the same."

A level road doen't mean a smooth, comfortable road to go.

I don't think adding a choice of 83dB is that difficult on the beginning. I just think it is time to make it clear, and I know now how hard it is.

Cheer

Stephen

This is not about how difficult that is, but that it is completely unnecessary.

As scanning the gain of an audio file does not change its volume, the reference level does not matter at all as long as it is the same in every file. RG scanning does nothing but say "if you'd want to listen to this at 89dB, you had to alter the volume this much". Nothing forces you to use 89dB as playback volume though.

If you tell foobar to play something at 83dB, it will read the tags and - knowing the reference for the tags is 89dB - internally subtract 6dB from it. So you get the exact same results as if you had a reference value of 83dB.

I understand that.

Solution right now is, what i already said. manually edit it.

What you want seem to be that there should be an option to set & choose how loud it should be when replaygain.

something like this..

CODE

Replaygain > Replaygain album to 89db
             Replaygain album to 86db
             Replaygain album to 83db
             ..... ETC

correct?

since it's uninteresting to the majority of users - write a component ?

Oh please, no. That is so wrong. (I know it's not actually your suggestion buktore!) The reference level isn't stored in the RG tags, it's defined in the standard. So if the reference level was arbitrary, the resulting tags would be meaningless.


stephen000, the advice you've had already is right...

If you want 83dB, use the pre-amp.

If you want to select between 83dB and 89dB on a track by track basis (so making some tracks playback twice as loud as others), dynamically change the pre-amp (I have no idea how).

If you want to change the RG values in some of your files to match your own personal preference, go ahead and edit them. There might even be a way of batch scripting it.

Maybe you can hack one of the last two together based on genre or something. Someone has suggested that before, simply because they wanted some genres louder than others. If that's what you want, then either changing the pre-amp or tags, automatically based on genre, is the way to go.

Cheers,
David.

@buktore
Yes, adding to the context menu is the most convenient way, or can choose the default value in preference/advanced.

@2Bdecided
You are partly right. Replaygain is a recommended standard, and the standard is 83dB, not 89dB. I don't want to repeat the historical reason again why people change the value from 83dB to 89dB. Please read if you are interested. The links are:

Standard (83dB):
http://www.replaygain.org/

Practical implementations/change from 83dB to 89dB:
http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/level-practices-part-1.html


I would go for other tools to do the replay gain value, and would like to stop here.

Cheers

Stephen

stephen000: I have a feeling that 2Bdecided is pretty familiar with replaygain, with the "ReplayGain developer" title and all.

The "standard" for practical purposes IS now 89dB. There is no sane way to change it back, because:

1. the 89dB reference is already in widespread use
2. the reference is NOT stored in the tags

The combination of the two means, that it is impossible to change the reference level, without messing up all current implementations of replaygain. Replaygain isn't just a technology for strictly individual use, but instead also used in scenarios, where the music is transfered from one person to another - or shared between two or more persons (i.e. LAN). Any application which allows the user to change the reference, becomes guilty of providing support to destroy the usefulness of current RG-implementations. To repeat 2Bdecided: without knowing the reference, the metadata is useless - by making the reference an unknown factor, you are rendering replaygain useless for any multiuser-scenario.