Using my LG DVD Writer I've been ripping at 8-10x on most CDs, but I decided to pick up a Plextor Premium after hearing that it was the best drive for digital audio extraction, with features the LG lacks such as the ability to "overread into lead-in and lead-out". Unfortunately I'm finding it very slow, with the same secure settings in EAC the LG is around 4x as fast. That's a pretty big difference when ripping hundreds of CDs.

I've tried using the -usefua option to disable the Plextor's cache, but even with "drive caches audio data" turned off in EAC there wasn't a significant increase in extraction speed. Is there anything that could be seriously slowing it down, or is that kind of speed to be expected?

To be honest I'm not sure how important Plextor features like overreading into the lead-in/lead-out actually are. I hoped to get the most accurate backups possible, but if there's no chance of an audible difference then it isn't really worth all the extra time it'd take with the Plextor Premium...

You also need to use C2 pointers in order to see a benefit with -usefua.

Make sure Windows hasn't reverted to PIO mode with this drive.

You might want to try dBpoweramp, it doesn't have the same speed penalty as EAC when it comes to caching drives.

Finally, like the PX-7XX series, doesn't the Premium lock the extraction speed to 8x with discs it doesn't like?

The "Drive is capable of retrieving C2 error information" option in EAC? Doesn't that increase the risk of errors when ripping?

I'd assumed that just disabling the cache and changing the setting in EAC would increase speed. With the LG GSA-4163B, enabling cache flushing in EAC significantly reduces speed (5-6x rather than 8-10x), fortunately it isn't necessary with that drive because of its tiny cache (based on what I've read here).



I've checked and DMA seems to be enabled.



I've just got REACT working nicely, creating both MP3s and FLAC images with embedded cue sheets and album art. Plus I'm quite comfortable with EAC and it's features now, the thought of researching another DAE application isn't very appealing.



That's something I haven't heard about. Is there any way to disable that to see if it's the problem?

I've tried half a dozen discs, all recent purchases that are clean and unscratched, so I don't think they're the cause of the problem. Some of the same discs rip at over 10x on the LG, yet slow down to 1.5x on the Plextor. With either drive AccurateRip verifies that the tracks are extracted accurately.

Considering the success indicated by AccurateRip, would you say that I'm getting near perfect rips with the LG drive?

Its high read sample offset (+667) and inability to overread into the lead-in and lead-out put me off using it for backing up CDs, but there'd have to be a real-world advantage for me to use a much slower drive. Is the read sample offset and overread advantage of the Premium more or less theoretical, rather than something that I'd ever actually hear when listening to my rips?

Yes and yes, but with your Plextor Premium, the risk is nowhere near as high as with other drives. Just use T&C with tracks that AccurateRip can't verify as accurate.

Switch to burst mode and see if the extraction speed is greater than 8x.

Yes.

You aren't going to hear the difference.

Another option: you can always just use the Plextor to rip the last track and HTOA (if your LG can't read HTOA) and use the LG for the rest. For tracks that the LG can't rip accurately, you can try the Plextor and see if it makes a difference.

Interesting. I guess so many of the articles I've read have recommended secure mode with no C2 that I haven't considered it. With the Plextor's cache disabled and C2 error correction I'm seeing very high extraction speeds, up to twice as fast as the LG in secure mode.

It's definitely an option for CDs that are verfied with AccurateRip, unfortunately a lot of the CDs I own are pretty obscure and are unlikely to be found. Would you say that using C2 and T&C would be as accurate as ripping in secure mode without either?



I'm seeing around 7x in burst mode, I take it that's far slower than it should be...

Any ideas on how to fix this?



I'm not sure if the LG can read HTOA, off hand I'm not sure which of my CDs use it. I'll have to have a look through and see if I can dig one out to test. As for ripping the last track on the Plextor, that isn't really an option when ripping images using REACT, and I really like the automation that it offers.

Certainly, though one CRC with C2 and one CRC without could provide some added confidence.

A-HA! I hope this isn't the case with every CD you try, or else you have a problem (you should see at least 20x with some discs).

If the drive is limiting the speed to 8x because of the disc, then short of modifying the firmware (and I doubt anyone has done this), there's nothing that can be done.

I've used this method to rip half a dozen CDs that have AcurateRip results and so far they've all been verified without any problems. I've just tried a CD with a few scratches, once with C2 and once with it turned off (thankfully it was a CD single as it ripped at under 1x without C2), reasuringly both CRCs matched. I'll try to find some CDs that are in worse condition and test it some more. Overall it's looking pretty good and is easily the fastest option.



I tried a number of undamaged disks but in burst mode none ripped faster than 7x. However I can't see any reason why I'd want to use burst mode. With C2 error correction on I'm seeing around 22-26x with the same CDs. Even with test and copy used each time that's still a bit faster than the LG's secure mode, and much faster than the 1.5x I was getting when using the Plextor earlier.

Sounds like a good idea. BTW, one of the reasons for suggesting ripping with and without C2 is that it will cause EAC to seek different addresses while ripping and depending on the disc it may mean the difference between a good rip and a bad one. My point being is that there is usually no one configuration of settings that will do the best job under every circumstance.

So you're only getting 7X in Burst mode while Secure w/C2 & FUA gives you 20+X?!?

There's still something wrong. What read command is EAC configured to use? Is the drive set as a master, as a slave, is there something else attached to the same IDE channel?

Well, so long as Secure mode is working then it probably won't be an issue. Speaking of which, did you verify that -usefua works by testing a scratched disc with the recovery quality set to low in order to see that EAC is capable of reporting a read error (as opposed to reporting only sync errors)?

I'll definitely be careful with problem CDs, hopefully with most of them that wouldn't be necessary. Ripping without C2 I feel lucky if I get 2x extraction and ultimately I've got over 1000 CDs I'd like to rip.



The read command is D8, that's the one autodetected by EAC. The drive is the master on the same IDE cable as the LG DVD writer. Unfortunately my motherboard only has one IDE port, of course I could still test it by simply disconnecting the LG drive. I don't see why it would cause a problem as the LG drive isn't in use at the same time. The LG's speed hasn't changed since adding the Plextor.



I've definitely seen it report a read error when ripping a badly damaged CD, although it wasn't something I was actually testing for. I assumed that since EAC's drive test indicated that the Plextor didn't cache data that -usefua was working correctly. I'll definitely perform some further testing, but from what I've seen so far it's failing to rip badly damaged CDs just as successfully as secure mode.

I've had problems when connecting two optical drives to the same channel without both drives running at the same time, so you might want to try that.

That same test will also say your drive still caches depending on the disc you feed it. Had your results gone the other way you may have been misled.

I have both a px-712A and a Premium drive that I use with EAC all of the time. With caching disabled, I can perform secure rips upward of 30x.

However, I regularly run into discs that will lock at 8x to rip. As you describe, these are clean and sometimes new discs. For some reason, the Plextor drive determines it can only get a clean rip at this speed. It may have to do with how the disc was manufactured or how the disc is balanced.

What I found is that once you rip a disc like this, the drive will lock all following discs to this low speed. The only ways I found to prevent this are:
- reboot the machine between discs (NOT acceptable)
- run Plextools in the background.

I found that if I rip a disc that locks at 8x, the next disc will do the same. When this happens, I switch to plextools and access the section that shows the drive speed. Via a drop down box, I set it to the maximum speed. If the disc is able to be read at a faster speed, it will switch. You can also do this as the disc is ripping.

So, if you have Plextools (if you purchased and OAM version, you won't have it), give it a try. It will save you a lot of aggravation (and time).

Rich

Interesting. I don't have this problem with my PX-716A.

That's pretty impressive, I've only seen 30x ripping a couple of times, generally my Plextor Premium rips at around 25x using C2 and cache disabled. Still, that's easily fast enough to be practical, even with test and copy doubling the ripping time it's better than my LG's secure mode speed.



I have tried different discs after rebooting but it didn't seem to make any difference to secure/burst speed. I guess all the discs I tried could be ones that cause it to lock at 8x, but that would be a pretty strange coincidence. I find it particularly odd that certain extraction modes would be locked at a slow speed when the same disks rip at 20x+ with C2 and no cache. I'd have thought that the drive would be slow no matter what if it was due to the discs...

If your drive is locking out extraction speeds beyond 8X then you won't see 20X speeds in any mode including Secure mode regardless of the configuration.

Sorry for not making this clear enough earlier.

FWIW, my PX-716A approaches 40X towards the end of some discs.

You may find this thread of interest:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....&hl=plextor

He says he's getting 20X in secure mode with discs that only give 7X in Burst. It is clear that the drive is not limiting the extraction speed to 8X.

When I said this earlier,
I didn't mean that my PX-716A never limits the extraction speed to 8X, just that it can recover from this limitation by simply changing the disc and without the use of PlexTools. I've met a lot of people who have complained about this but you are the first one to say that it won't revert back to normal operation without a reboot or running PlexTools in the background.

I've experienced this with 2 drives (a Premium and a 712A) in 2 different machines. I always use EAC. It was most likely somebody in the EAC discussion forum that suggested using PlexTools - it certainly isn't something I would have thought to try on my own.

Since this is drifting off topic, I'll leave it at that.

It seems like a very strange problem. I've ripped around 40 CDs so far without finding one that causes it to lock at a slower speed, hopefully they'll be few and far between.

I wonder what the criteria for slowing extraction to 8x actually is? I've ripped some CDs that I'd have expected to cause it to slow down, for example a couple of burned CD-Rs with visibly off-centre stuck on labels. Yet the slowest extraction I've seen is 15x when ripping with C2 and no cache.

Here's the most recent post I've seen that I think answers your question:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....mp;#entry531753

I've found the first CD in my collection that locks the drive to 8x; a clean and scratch free CD that ultimately ripped without any problems. The next CD I tried to rip also locked at 8x, but restarting EAC fixed the problem without requiring a system restart or PlexTools.

In my opinion this is one of those features that ends up acting more like a bug...

I couldn't agree more. Maybe it's a good idea for burst ripping, but hardly necessary for programs like EAC. Isn't this the same company that created PlexTools which also has the ability to tell the drive to reduce the extraction speed when necessary?!?

Did you ever solve your speed problems when ripping in burst mode?

I've played with the settings and tried removing the second drive from the IDE cable, but it still rips at <7x in burst mode. I think this is going to remain a mystery. While it's ripping at a decent speed with my current settings there isn't much of an incentive to spend any more time trying to solve it.