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I would respond by simply asking a question...

If you build something, and you maintain something, do you get to make the rules as to how it is used?

I agree, but for LULZ sake I hope this thread is deleted.

Agree.

...or moved to the appropriate forum, at least. This has nothing to do with "General Audio" and as such is in violation of TOS #6.

I don't know who you are or what you're complaining about but honestly the fact that you posted this thread probably means whatever they moderated you for was justified.

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I don't know what this actually means?



This isn't the best way to start a discussion.

Great start to a ban me thread though.

So the forum rules should take a back seat to what you think the forum needs?

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Oh you are so hilarious

That's like saying, I don't know what Gary Kasparov is complaining about, but the fact that he's on TV talking about it probably means whatever he was arrested for was justified.

If you don't know what he's complaining about and don't care to understand, please refrain from commenting on this thread.

How does one get rid of a warning anyway? I've been at 33% for over a year, and I can't even remember what I did.

It goes, eventually.

Re dictatorships: I don't think that being told what to do on an Internet forum owned by someone else quite corresponds to being told what to do all the time, whatever you're doing, in your own home. Beyond that, I've no idea what this is about so you can fight it out amongst yourselves, if you want.

Too harsh and dictatorial? Far from it. They never ever do a single thing without a reason. You might question the validity of the reason, but the fact remains that Hydrogenaudio is not the greater Internet. Sites are inherently "walled gardens". They are inherently dictatorial.

To draw an analogy, so are corporations. Where the power resides varies, but just because you're a customer doesn't mean you get to make policy decisions. Even if you account for 10% of a corporation's sales, all the influence you have is to cease business with that corporation.

The same is true here. Hydrogenaudio gets a lot of traffic. In order to keep things sane, there are rules. There is management. You might not agree with the management, but if you dislike it that much, you can go elsewhere. Good luck finding a management that is as willing to listen to reason as this one. TOS8 has prevented more stupidity than any other forum rule that I've ever encountered.

I'm a prime example. I've been a complete flaming retard on several occasions here. Yet in the end, if I'm wrong, I admit it. I've not once run into a serious issue with the moderation here, despite how close I tread to the edge sometimes. This is a damn good site run by damn good people, and I am saddened that other people perceive them as this thread describes them. If you knew them at all and have seen how they run this site, you'd probably think differently.

This forum is the only forum I frequent, and the management is the reason behind that. Beware! You are coming awfully close to insulting something that I value very highly.

The trash can. No moderation is done here without reason.

So your complaining your not banned yet? because you were simply re-warned?

In my first year on HA I got a lot of warnings, and for some of them I couldn't see a reason.
In an overall sense however the warnings have shown me how to write things the right way. In the end
a) moderation is necessary.
b) moderation is not too harsh here. In case you don't agree with specific warnings it's good to realize that we do not live in a perfect world, and to realize that you can say here whatever you want to, but have to put it into a certain form so that your writing is easier to read for other people. That's all what it is about. Mere emotional opinion of course is not welcome here.

*sigh*

Bourne, you are one of our frequent flyers. I reduced your warn level so I could rewarn you and thus suspend your post rights for a few days, after you once again violated the TOS by trolling. Reducing warn level to do that, is a technicality of how the warn system works, since I can't append to the warn log when a user is at 100%. The fact that you were re-warned and not banned, says something about our tolerance here, and our acknowledgement that you are an active poster. Yet you continue to dig your own grave.

As for how the moderation works around here, we have a non-public IRC channel that we usually discuss moderation issues in, if the case isn't a clear open-and-shut case such as spamming, trolling or something like that. This thread is sure to come up for discussion today, when people get off work/school, and I'm sure we'll reach a Final Solution. In the mean time, I'm moving this to off topic.

The moderator simply removed an old warning and issued a new one in the same action. I don't see the big deal.

It is possible; we are all human and there is some subjectivity to a moderator's response. Yes. Yes. Certainly not Dibrom, as he has not been active for probably two years.

"german blockwart like people"? Nice. TOS #7 just stops mud being slung in public. If you have an issue it should be discussed in private with the mod, and escalated to the admin team if unresolved.

I deleted the thread. When I read the thread (I do read threads in Site Related Discussion) I removed the warning, as it was old. At that time the thread became irrelevant so I deleted it. I guess I could have posted to the thread and told him that I had removed the warning, but his warnometer is no-one else's business.

How is this relevant?! Wow, he has some beefs because the majority don't recommend --xlevel. Big hairy deal.

I am personally very keen for general (not personal) issues to be discussed in Site Related Discussion. Members should feel that they have a voice. That said, I think that you have been so offensive in this thread that I cannot condone your actions. I would not be surprised if you are banned, which you seem to want.

If "Site Related Discussion" does not get enough attention it is because users of the forum are quite happy with the way the forum is running and do not feel the need to be posting about it! I don't see how you can excuse deliberately posting to the wrong thread to get yourself more attention. And then double-posting (duplicate thread deleted by me).

HA dickheads? Nice.

good read over coffee, thanks.

Didn't say HA was a building, but that would work. Could be building a web site, a football team, an interstate highways system. I only tried to answer your question in a polite way that might help you to see why you are wrong. That you think it doesn't make any sense indicates why you are having "issues".

this is the worst "injustice" i've ever seen!

OMG how do you go on living!


LOL

I will say that, at least with what Bourne's examples sound like, the moderation seems somewhat capricious. What I mean by that is that there are many posts that slide by nowadays that would be moderated out if given the same treatment. (I've had my fair share of inane and meaningless posts, and so far I've managed to avoid the Recycle Bin entirely, amazingly enough.)

Still, I enjoy the moderation style. The signal-to-noise ratio of posts here is far higher than on other forums, and in large part, that's because people here seem to shut their stupid mouths if they don't have anything useful to contribute. Compare that to Head-Fi and SH.tv, where it seems like a dozen people wish to make their presence known on a regular basis.

Axon: Moderation can't be 100% fair and uniform. Us moderators are different, and each of us can't read all of HA. Maybe I'll clamp down on something that other mods let slide, but that's just the way it is, unless we employ paid full time moderators from different time zones.

I like the way this Popsicle-stand is run. HA is a knowledge based forum. It is designed for people that actually search the forum before posting. If the mods split the threads or remove posts, bless'em, because it becomes real frustrating when one hasn't the faintest idea of where a discussion is going! [I personally wish more threads were renamed to better explain what the person was asking, because "I don't know what to do! Help!" doesn't scream out to me that this thread might have the information I am looking for. Same goes for when the OP starts asking a whole lotta questions far outside the scope of his original post.]

There are no opinions (except to that of preference to codec), meaning you either present facts, ideas, suggestions, etc. HA requires you to post said facts, and when questioned or disagreed with, you should have something to support your said facts. This doesn't allow trolling and flaming to occur if you remember this is a resource for the audio technology enthusiast.

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If Bourne were to complain like this on stevehoffman.tv, about its moderation policies, I guarantee that he'd have been banned within hours, and the thread would have gone down the memory hole.

From what I've seen of Bourne's posts here, and recall of them, he struck me as perhaps a borderline troll, but I thought it was really a language issue. Now I'm not so sure.

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Since I started posting here I got warned twice.

The first one was a harsh thing because of something pretty innocent that was understood like a strong TOS violation (of course in my opinion). The second one was a deserved warning, I admit.

At the time I got offended and posted publicly in the forum about the warnings and the thread was deleted (not even moved to the recycle bin) almost immediatly.

I contacted the moderation both times I was warned and I never got a "polite fuck off and obey me" attitude. Actually moderation was very polite and explained perfectly clearly the reasons for the warnings and I really appreciated that.

After that I was able to properly analyze what happened and realized that moderation acted in the best interest of the forum community, so I am satisfied with the way things were handled in my case.

That taught me something: think before posting. Now I just post if I have something useful to add.

Bourne, I don't know what happened in your case but I can tell you something: moderation is responsible for keeping things sane in this forum and I personally think that they do a very good job.

yeah, in the end, I agree wholeheartedly with what Jens, krab, and beto have said. No moderation is perfect, but this forum is easily the best administered audio forum I've ever had the pleasure of taking part in.

I don't know what the big deal is. This is a knowledge based forum. If you have nothing useful/factual to add to the discussion, then don't type a response. If you don't like the moderators, leave.

Also don't be too quick to assume that we cannot speak your language.

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I'll edit mine, too.

You know Bourne, besides that creepy cat avatar, you often had good suggestions. They weren't always on topic or complete, but usually the replies were short enough and to the point---got the idea across.

This place does not limit information, regulates the presentation of the information. Otherwise we get far too many people posting the same questions over and over... like "how do I split an APE with a CUE?"

The comment about the avatar stays. :-P

Hey Bourne. Calm down man! You may end up being banned!
I kind of like your postings but... you are not perfect. The moderators are not perfect. So once in a while some "discrepancies" will occur. At this time the best is to cool down, walk away and practice some tolerance.
I was warned once (for offending innocent audiophiles. ) But overall I find that HA mods are quite tolerant.

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I will apologize, my recent comment was nothing more than an attack. But you've since edited your comments directed towards me. In turn, I have edited mine.

If you have valued information, present it. Again, I find this forum to be about accessing information efficiently. Not knowing the actual problem here, all I gather is that you have said something impolite, too far off topic, or bashed something---I don't know.

I am pretty sure I have had plenty of my threads washed down memory lane (maybe not deleted or recycled). It did not bother me in the least; either no one knew, no one cared, or no one figured it was practical. I made other solutions from other sections of the site.

What kind of door out should there be? To leave... just don't log in. Why should there be a "you can never log in again" button? Besides, all your posts would stay regardless because they contain beneficial information to the topic. I really do not understand how there is a problem with this site. The rules are in place to ensure the efficient discussion of audio technology and information.

And the comment about the cat stays. :-P

-Hain

1) Change email address to gibberish.
2) Change password to gibebrish.
3) Log out.

Did you really need that explained to you?



Yes because a leave button is necessary for you to turn off your computer and go outside.



Because disagreeing with someone on the internet is just like going to jail.

This reasoning is so belittling to people like Kasparov I'm actually mildly disgusted with you as a human being.

Haven't been on here much in last couple years but the mod's have been generally pretty tolerant and fair from what I've seen. As far as site improvements go, how about adding ...

TOS #15: No member shall mention TOS violations by other members unless he/she has (a) been elevated to a minimum of moderator status or (b) been a member for at least 2 years

I don't know about you guys but I get tired of seeing gung ho rookies screening for TOS violations ... especially in regards to #8.

I wouldn't generalize at all. I point out problems because the question leads to this. That doesn't mean the moderation as a whole doesn't make a good job all in all and in everyday business.

"German blockwart" - rotfl, yes, I was sometimes thinking we maybe have a german problem. Postings from people telling about rock solid principles, yes, that's likely to be from the german side. They more seldom tend to connive things. This is not always bad, but as well not always good.

The media and being a human being is a source of the problem. A forum starts from scratch, and the more time people spend on the forum, people see newbies quicker and more radical below them. We all know the tendency of HA and fb2k feeling superior. This may be a source of the highly undemocratic TOS#7: criticism in mod action not allowed, because you folks can be sure, you are not worth criticising us, who have way more experience and knowledge and wisdom. TOS#7 is a real problem because it allows e.g. to immediately close this thread. I would allow mod action criticism to go to site related discussions.

Some topics get locked too soon, because of some simple triggers. Someone asked about foo_fullscreen replacement or alternative ideas and the topic got locked because of the "banned component" trigger.
EDIT: TOO OFFTOPIC.On a OT-sidenote: Did latest fb2k beta get extra code to ban the component from the software side? It tells the component has been removed despite it's there...

Amen.

"How does it sound?" is by nature subjective. Providing objective evidence for an opinion doesn't really change the fact that it's still an opinion. I'm old and I blew out my hearing in the 60's. Even if couched in statistics, my opinions are likely irrelevant to everyone here. I know and accept that.

I've mentioned this once or twice before and the moderators were gracious enough not to declare me a blasphemer. I appreciate the moderators and the work they do here.

Woody

After a fashion, I suppose.




True, but I don't try to.



Tend much to overstatement?








OK, great.




But you wouldn't generalize at all.





Is an opinion independently supported by facts no more compelling to you, than one that isn't?

I love this place precisely because it offers an alternative to the gush of totally subjective, sighted-comparison *opinions* that constitute 'information' and 'discussion' on most other audio sites.Which, to me, are utterly useless.

If you need that sort of input, there's plenty of other places to go (some of which have moderation policies more draconian than here, be warned). HA is a rarity, there's no need to make it more 'subjectivist'-friendly.

Ouch !

Thanks for the warning.

Fixed the link - and yea - you should be warned for that.

So let me get this straight - you violated the rules enough to deserve a ban - they cut you some slack - and that is reason to complain?

HA is, IMHO, a model forum when it comes to rules and moderation.



Perhaps TOS #15 should be Goodwin.

This Goodwin rule might be good, but Godwin would work better

So not only did I fub the spelling, I get it immortalized in your quote!
Too late to edit.

Actually, if I recall correctly, some time ago, I remember seeing a person who claims to be a recording engineer post some false information about CDs. His position was debunked, and about a day later, all seven or so of his posts are gone, along with his account. I don't know how he did it, but I believe he really did delete his account, but I think it would entail deleting every single post you have ever made first.

We never delete accounts. Offensive posts are usually moved to recycle bin, which is readable by the public. There's another "recycle bin" which isn't readable by the public, but nothing is every truly deleted here.

I can't tell you how that account and the posts made from it disappeared, but it isn't standard practice.

HA is a joy.

The moderation is quite transparent and fair. Even deleted threads are there for all to see. Even threads like this one can exist.

In contrast, I find tip toe-ing around some of the moderation on doom9 quite painful. I recently apologised for inadvertently getting someone warned, explaining that I didn't think any offence was meant by them, and none was taken by me - as a result I got a warning for "questioning a moderation decision". Heaven forbid I should ever ask what the best way to do something is!

I'm very grateful for HA. Nowhere is perfect, but it's great.


I don't think people should be prevented from pointing out TOS to other members. It can get petty, and it should be done politely, but banning it altogether would be silly and unhelpful.

Cheers,
David.

I got a strike for posting in a configuration thread - Wouldn't it be more appropriate just to delete the post then (the post itself was a helpful answer on another post)?

Sorry but I don't know what a "configuration thread" is. Could someone enlighten me?