Howdy, everyone!

I'm just doing some research for making a friend's soon-to-be-bought Playstation 3 a decent AAC jukebox. From what I've learned so far, it properly decodes the .mp4/.m4a data outputted by the Nero command line encoder, but fails at reading any metadata if the AAC stream isn't stored inside a .3gp container. The question is what kind of tags the PS3 expects in this case, since just like MP4 the 3GPP standard seems to lack any specifications about storing them. My guess would be that an iTunes-compatible tagging scheme was used, i.e. temporarily renaming .3gp to .mp4 and processing it with any possible MP4-tagger might do the trick. Someone please confirm whether I'm correct or entirely on the false route here.

Let's say I was correct: What application would you guys recommend to batch-mux the AAC streams inside the MP4 containers into 3GPP? I've just had a look into MP4box and its Yamb frontend, experimenting with .3gp a bit. Tagging these files with iTunes metadata works, adding the extension to Winamp's MPEG-4 parser makes the player properly read the songs' informations. The problem is that neither the MP4box command line nor Yamb allow batch-processing of the MP4 to 3GPP containers, only single-file output is possible, rendering the application useless for a bunch of a few thousand files to process.

I read a bit about the MP4Creator bundled with MPEG4IP, but haven't tested it so far. MPEG4IP's installed on my Linux system, but due to some Windows updates running I can't reboot this machine with Linux right now, hence I'll check MP4Creator later. Only if there was any sense about doing so, of course, if anyone told me it was unable to mux in batches as well, then I could safely forget this waste of time.

Please abstain from suggesting the obvious way of going the MP3 route instead of the AAC one, since there's an already existent Nero AAC collection to choose from. A FLAC one which could be transcoded to MP3 too, but this friend's gonna lay his hands on the 40 GB version of the PS3 and doesn't want to waste too much of this limited space for the PS3 music collection. Some ABXing revealed that his two eavesdroppers are quite happy with his AAC collection at average bitrates around 100 kbit/s (-q 0.35), while with MP3 he wouldn't want to go below -V 5 (~135 kbit/s).

Well, the batch multiplexing issue is easily resolved by these commands, executed from the parent directory of the audio collection:
Looks a bit messy, since this creates intermediate .mp4.3gp files, but they're necessary in order to prevent mp4box from looping. The third command strips the .3gp extension off the filenames, leaving .mp4 behind, therefore being suitable for tagging with MP3tag. A follow-up should rename them to the .3gp extension. Let's see what the PS3 will do with iTunes-metadata inside the .3gp container...

Edit: Fixed the first command line. The "-out" option was missing, resulting in invalid .mp4.3gp files.

MP4Box successfully transfers iTunes tags to the resulting 3GPP data, in contrary to MP3tag which has its problems at reading and writing in a few cases, making the tagging step unnecessary. But that doesn't help anyway, since the Playstation 3 is unable to read any iTunes tags, no matter which container's used. If anyone's got some input about the tagging format which is read and written for AAC by the PS3, then out with it, please!

If you have a PS3-created AAC file with tags, it should (hopefully!) be trivial to figure out the format.

Not yet, since the guy who owns it just received his PS3, hence I haven't had a chance to rip a CD with this thing so far. I just had a few minutes to test the AAC files. But I guess someone else around here has already done a few tests, therefore the question. Would save plenty of work for me.

this is something i have been looking at for some time and whilst i love my music, i dont have the knowledge to fix this, but here is what i know.
3gpp tagging was developed for mobiles and such. it uses a completely different tagging system from standard id3.
i cannot find any software that can write 3gpp tags to audio files, not a single one.
since sony is one of the vreators of 3gpp i think there is no 3gpp -> m4a tag conversion inside the ps3. i tinhk sony just flat refuse to use id3/apple tagging for some obscure reason.
even worse news is that i have plenty of sony devices and none of their audio software/mp3 players support id3/apple tags either with aac files, not the psp, not any software nor any phones so i suspect they will NEVER supdate the ps3 to support apple tagging.
i have various files that i can get from the ps3 with the tags in if any one wants them, that is not a problem.
edit: any one any good with this `atomic parsley` able to inspect the file to find out the tag info?
and using yamb to create a 3gpp file still does not work. the tags are ignored again or it will not recognise the file.
and just to make it even more silly, if you plug in a mem stick with 3 albums in different folders it will play them in the folders, but out of order. if you transfere them to the hard disk on the ps3 it lumps them all in one folder, regardles of what folders you had before. and it will not do a cd recognition on the files, thus will not auto do the tags. and you cannot cut and paste from the songs file name either.
brilliant sony. absolutly brilliant.

I don't know about that - my girlfriend has a Sony car head unit (GT-410U i think) that plays m4a files fine, and even reads the tags. These are all files generated with the Nero codec and foobar.

okay, so theres one that does
i have uploaded a tune that i ripped on the ps3.
its in aac format, was ripped on the ps3 using its own encoder in the latest formware.
its fully tagged including art work.
if any one can figure out the tag format it uses, then please let us know!

http://rapidshare.com/users/76RDG5

i found this in the atomic parsley instructions.

Setting 3gp assets with AtomicParsley

3gp metadata assets are more complicated than iTunes-style metadata. Assets can be in either utf8 or utf16, and are for a specific language. Multiple like-named tags differing in the language are supported allowing for up to around 480 tags per asset. See the AtomicParsley --3gp-help page for more. 3gp assets are only available on 3gp files - setting iTunes-style metadata is not allowed.

3gp assets have more options than iTunes tags - most are hardcoded with defaults. Defaults are as follows:

Default encoding: utf8 (utf16 also available)
Default language: 'eng' (about 480 other languages supported; none are currently checked)
Default Rating: entity = 'NONE' (4spaces); criteria = 'NONE' (4 spaces)
Default Classification: entity = 'NONE' (4 spaces); index = 0
Default Location: Longitude: = -73.98; Latitude = 40.77; Altitude = 4.3; Role = shooting location; Astronomical Body = Earth; Additional notes = 'none' [Central Park] - altitude is measured in meters; negative values are appended with a capital letter (S for southern latitudes, W for western longitudes, B for below sea level.)

Setting a title asset for the spanish language in utf16:
AtomicParsley /path/your.3g2 --3gp-title "The Rain In Spain..." lang=spa UTF16

Setting a album asset (with tracknumber) for the sve language in utf8:
AtomicParsley /path/your.3g2 --3gp-album "Bjorn Diddles His Banjo of Death" track=2 lang=sve

Setting a rating asset for the japanese language in utf16:
AtomicParsley /path/your.3g2 --3gp-rating "A superlative 4-on-the-floor house anthem." entity=MOMA criteria=PU18 lang=jpn UTF16

Setting a location asset for the english language in utf16:
AtomicParsley /path/your.3g2 --3gp-location "Bethesda Terrace" latitude=40.77 longitude=73.98W altitude=4.3B role="real" body=Earth notes="Underground in Central Park" UTF16

Setting a keyword asset for the french language in utf8:
AtomicParsley /path/your.3gp --3gp-keyword "keywords=France,Paris,Basilique du Sacré-Cœur, Sewers, stinky cheeses" lang=fra

This seems like quite a bit of work. I still don't know why Sony hasn't made the PS3 compatible with Apple's AAC tagging scheme yet. The industry has pretty much adopted it with everything from the Xbox 360, Zune, Creative Zen, many car CD decks, and a multitude of apps all support Apple's AAC tagging scheme not to mention that Nero's AAC encoder is capable of making Apple compatible tags. This is probably the only reason why I have multiple lossy libraries. I have one 128kbps VBR iTunes AAC library that I use for portable listening with my iPods, Zune, or Zen. I then have a Lame mp3 -V 4 library that I use just with my PS3. Once the mp3's are properly tagged and on the system, I delete them from my computer. I also have lossless which makes converting rather easy but still. Sony needs to get on the ball here. It seems like many things fall short with the PS3. Its divx/xvid compatibility, vc-1 compatibility (not all files work), greater audio support for a common format (ie AAC), and browser support for media files. The Blu-ray playback feature is great though with pretty good video results.

Out of interest, you say the Xbox 360 is compatible but my Nero/Foobar tunes don't have their tags read by the Xbox. Am I doing something wrong?

I have had issues with Nero AAC files on the Xbox 360. I simply cannot get them to play straight from encoding. You have to run a mp4 optimizer tool, the one in foobar2000 will work. Then the files will play on the Xbox 360 and show their proper tags. The Xbox 360 will play iTunes AAC files just fine and show their tags but only when you play them off of an iPod or Zune (this goes for any AAC file, you need to play them off of an iPod or Zune in order for the tags to show up). So the Xbox 360 still isn't perfect but it is miles ahead of what the PS3 is doing with AAC support right now.

Just make sure you are using either a Zune or an iPod and you will be set with the Xbox 360. If your Nero AAC files aren't working then run them through a mp4 optimization tool such as the one found in Nero. AAC files must also be played off of a USB device when using the Xbox 360. You can stream them to the Xbox 360 using the Zune's software as well. Data AAC CD's won't work though. I haven't tried a data AAC DVD but I imagine it would have the same affect as a data CD.

Hey so what do I do?
I use MP3 files with VBR?
That will use 128-192, I will have to use less files, and I can use the media files from the Tunebite (it removes the protection to songs I've bought on iTunes)

I will hate to convert from protected m4p to unprotected m4a and then to another step to convert them to Sony 3GP's tagging system.

But if there is anyway, please let me know

X360 is so advanced if you count music. It supports the iPod, so that's a big start. It supports AAC files, and tagging (like everybody else). Besides, it allows you to hear music while you play the game, neat

But, again, the hardware from X360 is crappy, ring of death, and the controllers LB and RB (and the triggers), just seem so cheaply done

I prefer PS3, and I heard that XMB support while playing a game (music while playing a game) was going to be supported in a firmware update (hopefully before the end of the year)

So 3 years later, PS3 might be the better console after all

Whatever tagging the PS3 uses in Nero AAC is unaffected by adding and removing tags with Foobar2000.

The solution is a media server, at least for the home, works like a charm

Tested TwonkyMedia, works great
I'm testing TVersity now

with Twonky even the protected MP4 files were played great by the PS3