Hello All,

This is my 1st post & it's a bit of a quandary re: MP2 encoding.

Specifically, I'm trying to configure the optimum MP2 encoding parameters.

Why? Because I've been asked to come up with a "proof of concept" comparison here in Bulgaria between MP2 & MP3 quality for broadcast &/or filesharing purposes.

I already have most commandline encoding apps. I just need to get a better idea of how to best encode the MP2's so I can squash their theory.

For instance, are DAB extensions needed? VBR is experimental, atm. Is anyone familiar with the Soundtech additions? Right now I'm using a BeSweet FE & Twolame & it's a bit of a loss!

Regards

Forget VBR for mp2.

For DAB, the DAB extensions are needed, otherwise you're allocating bitrate that would/should be used for the text services to the audio, giving slightly better quality than you'd get in practice.


Generic minimum "good" mp2 quality:

tooLame -p 2 -m s -b 192

(If I remember the switches correctly - I'm sure you can figure out what I mean).


What are you trying to prove? That mp3 beats mp2 at some bitrates? Is this for final broadcast, or use on a server in a broadcast environment?

Is AAC, HE-AAC etc not an option?

Cheers,
David.

Thanks so much for your response, 2B.

Yes, I'm trying to prove that MP2 format can beat MP3 at bitrates higher than 256, esp. at 384.

There are 2 arguments atm. 1 with a radio station that uses MP3 @256 & the other with music filesharers that know nothing better than MP3 as a format. Unfortunately, Bulgaria is a bit behind in adopting other formats so, AAC is not an option. They might get confused.

What I want to do is encode some MP2 files from a commercial CD in order to get the best response after a hearing comparison. I just need a suggestion as to the optimum software/configuration to use in order to illustrate my claim. If you feel that I'm mistaken, please let me know.

Btw, I would certainly use Replaygain in any event.

Regards,

Yuri

and you plan to prove that how exactly?

OK, maybe I should rephrase that. I'm trying to demonstrate that MP2 can sound better than MP3 at bitrates higher than 256 & esp. at 384. I base this on my own hearing comparisons & feel that the MP2 files sound brighter & crisper. Of course, some of this is largely subjective on my part.

You really need to ABX some files yourself. It is fairly unlikely that you can actually hear a difference at these bitrates.

May I ask why are you evaluating these two outdated formats?
If you are looking into compressed audio for broadcast purposes, I suggest Ogg Vorbis (heavily used on the Czech radio market at 160 kbps - i.e., Q5). Because rather than using MP2 at 384 kbps I would probably go for linear (WAV of FLAC, whereas FLAC is only twice worse - filesize-wise - than MP2 at 384 kbps).

If you need more details on the topic write me: bls at 8bc com

Cheers, Martin

For file sharing, mp3 has the big advantage of compatibility. Many "mp3" players play mp2 files, but not all.


You should try the harpsichord sample from here...
http://sound.media.mit.edu/mpeg4/audio/sqam/
...most mp2 encoders hate it.


Of course mp3 cannot do 384kbps (free format ignored because it's near useless), but high bitrates come at a cost, and most broadcasters in the UK use 128kbps mp2 for broadcast on DAB (though our DAB service, despite being the most successful in the world in terms of receivers sold, is seeing many digital-only radio stations close).


If you're talking about FM broadcasters, and what they have on their studio servers, I think you would struggle to hear a difference. The problems mp3 has above 16kHz are irrelevant. The occasional smearing due to the DCT transform will also be pretty irrelevant compared to the huge effect of the heavy dynamic range compression that most radio stations apply.


You should always ABX to confirm what you think you hear. Use foobar2k.


I think it's wrong to suggest that high bitrate mp2 always out performs high bitrate mp3. The problems are different, but I don't think anyone has fairly tried to quantify them with modern encoders. At high bitrates, most people struggle to hear any problems at all, and most content can be transparently encoded.

Cheers,
David.