I was wondering if loudspeakers with a built-in amplifier exist (so that you can connect an MP3 player or whatever to the back of a loudspeaker without needing an external amp). The price should be as low as possible and not higher than 400 - 500 € for the pair.

Am I missing something or are you just looking for active speakers?

Can't recommend any specific speakers but they exist from very low (e.g. cheap speakers for computers) to very high prices (I've heard ~ EUR 35.000 speakers once at an exhibition).

In studio technology, small active monitors are quite commonly used. These can be bought at e.g. musical instrument stores that also sell recording/mixing equipment.

Maybe this link is of use: http://www.audioengineusa.com/

OK, I should be more clear that I am looking for BIG active speakers - like the ones you usually hook to an amp and not small PC active speakers.

"Big" like in 4-way floorstanders or "big" like in "bigger than your average logitech desktop speaker"?

I have a feeling that the words "big" and "cheap" may not go hand in hand in this particular situation.

Cheers, Slipstreem.

Most of these things are sold into either the studio monitoring market or the PA market. Studio monitors are generally build for as close to linear response as possible and best response in a sweet spot relatively close to the speaker (which is why they are called nearfield monitors). Things sold into the PA market generally are built for toughness and power rather than absolute quality of sound.

You're in Deustchland aren't you? Have a look at

http://www.thomann.de/gb/active_nearfield_...e7349aba2a7b2f4

For what you can get in terms of active nearfield monitors and

http://www.thomann.de/gb/active_loudspeake...d8e0f5844daa9b1

For active PA speakers.

There are active "HiFi" speakers but they tend to be esoteric and cost KiloEuros.

Bigger than your average Logitech desktop speaker. I am talking about something as big as a two-way bookshelf speaker. You know, like the ones sold with the Yamaha Pianocraft or similar compact stereo systems.

Right. I use powered studio monitors (two pair: KRK V6 and Event 20/20bas) for my at desk/at console listening, but as mentioned earlier in the thread, these products are engineered for..uh, an "engineer" (of sound, at least). That is one or two people sitting at a sweet spot at the control board, head(s) < 6 feet from each speaker, with perhaps the band hovering around. The sound is room filling, sure, but the design is for a small, close-in audience.

Whether this means there's any day to day difference in the sound vs. quality consumer speakers made for good relatively flat response (vs. coloration like Bose) in a standard living or AV room , I can't say.

But I do enjoy them oh-so-much on top of the hutch of my desk/console.

-brendan

No problem ... IIRC, you're living in Karlsruhe ... just check your local music instrument dealer or check this ...

http://www.thomann.de/de/aktive_nahfeldmonitore.html

I'd give that pair of Fostex PM-1 Mk II a try ...

Maybe you should become more specific.
Do you want a pair of speakers for a listening room or do you want a pair to be listened to at close range (near field types)

Is there a big difference in sound if you use near field speakers and you're a few meters away?

There is, near field is build on purpose to give the best sound at close range ( as a rule of the thump:1 – 1.5 m). They are not suite to be used from a normal listening distance (listening room).

As it has been said, near-field monitor speakers are designed for close range listening. But depending on their size.
Monitors can fill a small room just as regular "bookshelf" speakers do.
6" and less cones monitors should be as close as 1-1.5 meter in front of you, while 8" cones monitors are intended to fill a small listening room, such as a (home-) studio control room.

Yamaha's HS series monitors are very fairly priced, quality-wise, and so-on very good choices. They have two models HS80M (with a 8" cone, about 500€ a pair) and HS50M (with a 5" cone, about 300€ a pair)and a subwoofer HS10M.

A friend of mine has a pair of HS80M firstly for mixing purpose, but, believe me, listening to music on them several steps away from his desk, comfortably sitting in a sofa, you won't tell those are "monitors" but a very good stereo.
Personal opinion though
On the other hand, smaller HS50M really lack bass.

My personal opinion about getting a pair of amplified monitors for listening to music, and why it may not be convenient for this and your usage, is because those are not designed for regular music listening and they lack all the convenients of a dedicated stereo.

If I were you, I simply would go for a regular hi-fi stereo, an amplifier plus passive speakers, because monitors:
-have only one input, meaning one cable per channel,
-have no stereo volume control, but a dedicated volume control on each,
-require line inputs, most often only with XLR and/or 6.35 jack,
-and so more inconvenients compared to a stereo: you cannot directly manage multiple sources, and stereo master volume without something like a small mixing table.

And in a few words, monitors can also, by design, make recorded music sound as well as it might also make it unpleasant to the hear or lack "color", or reveal bad details (a bad mix, encoding artifacts, etc...), because of their "neutral" response.
Some info of interest (including kind of criticism too) about studio monitors in Wikipedia here.

I personally like the way monitors sounds, but it's an habit.

Sorry for being so long, going further than the question but I liked the subject
Hope I helped!

Alex.

Summarized (from my experience): on the plus side, using powered monitors I don't need an amp cluttering up my desk area. On the minus side, I need a small mixing board* in my desk area...

-brendan

* which is actually OK, since I am using it to tie five or so computers' audio outs together so that they are all active at once.

I think Sebastian is aiming for that plus too, am I wrong?

Couple of brandnames. Edirol MA15D. They sell for the equivalent of 170 euros here in Auckland. The university equips its mobile AV carts with these -- I've only heard them once, illustrating differences in performances of Hildegard von Bingen. The output was non-painful in a seminar room, which puts them above typical computer speakers, anyway.

I have a pair of M-Audio BX5a, which have replaced a good old amp and a pair of KEF C10s, thus decluttering my desk. About 300 euros here. I believe I can hear a difference between these and the KEFs, which would be consistent with the difference between monitors and hi-fi speakers, but I don't know which I prefer. They suit me well enough in a small room, but I don't need a lot of bass. Worth a listen, anyway, and there are bigger (and more expensive) ones in the range, and competitors.

As someone said, look in musician's shops, not audio places.

Have fun

Michael

I'm going to renovate desktop speakers too. Keeping in ming use (home music mixing/mastering), i would like to buy a NON-reflex model.

Here's a good list of models to choose from:

thomann.de's Active Nearfield Monitors (sorted in ascending order by price).

Suggestions ?

i use YAMAHA MSP 3 for video editing and sometimes for final mix as well, located about 1m from me (krk and genelec should be fine as well).

After a "fast" search, i changed my mind.

It's surelly better to get a T-AMP II and passive monitors:


(around 100€ here in Italy)

Then i learned that 8" woofer is always preferable.

Now, second round suggestions !!!

What about Behringer B2031P Truth ?

Why? Most of the built in amps in monitors are based around chips like this amp, or class AB chips (like the National LM3886). I really don't see why a seperate amp is "surely" better.
Not always. An 8" woofer in a two way speaker might force the designer to cross over to the tweeter at a lower frequency - possibly reducing power handling and adding other problems. Check if the monitor supports the power you want and frequency response you want, and don't worry about how big the drivers are. The monitors I use in my office have a 5.25" driver and play comfortably down to 55Hz. My home setup uses 6" drivers and a 14" sub to play flat to 25Hz. I find that 55Hz is plenty low enough for pleasurable music listening.

I wouldn't put 8" on my desk right in front of my head... Plus, bigger monitors need more power -so more volume- to express themselves.
As cabbagerat said, you should opt for big monitors if you have the need to handle power/distance from listener, a mixing room rather than a mixing desk.

As for choice, you should go to a music shop and listen for yourself, you won't make a good statement by just basing yourself on specs and size, especially a specs/price ratio.
Also prefer proven studio monitors manufacturers (like KRK, Prodipe, Genelec, Yamaha and others), who make nevertheless very affordable products.


This said, go listen and compare!