Hydrogenaudio Forums > Odd AccurateRip results when ripping EMI copy controlled CD

Full Version: Odd AccurateRip results when ripping EMI copy controlled CD

Hydrogenaudio Forums > CD-R and Audio Hardware > CD Hardware/Software

Cynic

May 11 2008, 13:00

Hi.

I came across some odd AR results when ripping with EAC.

Here are a couple of logs:

CODE

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 4 from 23. January 2008

EAC extraction logfile from 5. May 2008, 21:19

A Perfect Circle / Thirteenth Step

Used drive  : PIONEER DVD-RW  DVR-111L   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode : Burst

Read offset correction                      : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : Yes
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format      : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  7:40.37 |         0    |    34536   
        2  |  7:40.37 |  3:15.10 |     34537    |    49171   
        3  | 10:55.47 |  4:53.13 |     49172    |    71159   
        4  | 15:48.60 |  4:13.50 |     71160    |    90184   
        5  | 20:02.35 |  4:51.35 |     90185    |   112044   
        6  | 24:53.70 |  3:12.25 |    112045    |   126469   
        7  | 28:06.20 |  4:06.00 |    126470    |   144919   
        8  | 32:12.20 |  2:34.72 |    144920    |   156541   
        9  | 34:47.17 |  4:04.58 |    156542    |   174899   
       10  | 38:52.00 |  4:34.25 |    174900    |   195474   
       11  | 43:26.25 |  2:01.72 |    195475    |   204621   
       12  | 45:28.22 |  5:06.05 |    204622    |   227576   
       13  | 53:06.27 | 20:51.48 |    238977    |   332849   


Range status and errors

Selected range

     Filename D:\A Perfect Circle - Thirteenth Step.wav

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Test CRC C0D2BAA6
     Copy CRC 79A8CBE6
     Copy OK

No errors occurred

 
AccurateRip summary
 
Track  1  accurately ripped (confidence 9)  [3C44E32A]
Track  2  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [1B41B744]
Track  3  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [C7B09712]
Track  4  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [1E178C5C]
Track  5  accurately ripped (confidence 9)  [9A8AE2A9]
Track  6  accurately ripped (confidence 9)  [27300FC8]
Track  7  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [3FF9B372]
Track  8  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [AC5F0B4C]
Track  9  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [BE0B845C]
Track 10  accurately ripped (confidence 9)  [EEF97708]
Track 11  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [8859B6F5]
Track 12  cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 4)  [105C5174], AccurateRip returned [F3324C9E]
 
11 track(s) accurately ripped
 1 track(s) could not be verified as accurate

Some tracks could not be verified as accurate

End of status report
 

CODE

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 4 from 23. January 2008

EAC extraction logfile from 6. May 2008, 14:10

A Perfect Circle / Thirteenth Step

Used drive  : PIONEER DVD-RW  DVR-111L   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode : Burst

Read offset correction                      : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : Yes
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 128 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files\REACT2\REACT.exe
Additional command line options : REACT %o %s %d "%a" "%g" "%t" "%n" "%x" "%y" "%m" "%e" "%f" "%b" %r


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  7:40.37 |         0    |    34536   
        2  |  7:40.37 |  3:15.10 |     34537    |    49171   
        3  | 10:55.47 |  4:53.13 |     49172    |    71159   
        4  | 15:48.60 |  4:13.50 |     71160    |    90184   
        5  | 20:02.35 |  4:51.35 |     90185    |   112044   
        6  | 24:53.70 |  3:12.25 |    112045    |   126469   
        7  | 28:06.20 |  4:06.00 |    126470    |   144919   
        8  | 32:12.20 |  2:34.72 |    144920    |   156541   
        9  | 34:47.17 |  4:04.58 |    156542    |   174899   
       10  | 38:52.00 |  4:34.25 |    174900    |   195474   
       11  | 43:26.25 |  2:01.72 |    195475    |   204621   
       12  | 45:28.22 |  5:06.05 |    204622    |   227576   
       13  | 53:06.27 | 20:51.48 |    238977    |   332849   


Range status and errors

Selected range

     Filename D:\A Perfect Circle [2003] Thirteenth Step.wav

     Timing problem 0:00:00
     Timing problem 0:00:55

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Test CRC 6E7658BF
     Copy CRC 6E7658BF
     Copy finished

No errors occurred

 
AccurateRip summary
 
Track  1  accurately ripped (confidence 9)  [3C44E32A]
Track  2  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [1B41B744]
Track  3  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [C7B09712]
Track  4  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [1E178C5C]
Track  5  accurately ripped (confidence 9)  [9A8AE2A9]
Track  6  accurately ripped (confidence 9)  [27300FC8]
Track  7  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [3FF9B372]
Track  8  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [AC5F0B4C]
Track  9  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [BE0B845C]
Track 10  accurately ripped (confidence 9)  [EEF97708]
Track 11  accurately ripped (confidence 8)  [8859B6F5]
Track 12  accurately ripped (confidence 7)  [F1105E90]
 
All tracks accurately ripped

End of status report

My question is: wasn't track 12's CRC supposed to be F3324C9E, according to the first log, since all the other track CRCs agree?
I tried to rip this CD multiple times, and no two logs are the same: either the rip can't be verified by AR, or it is verified but the Test and Copy CRCs differ, sometimes there are timing problems and other times there aren't... I still have all those logs, and can post them if needed.

Should I trust this rip? Is this a configuration problem or is this due to the copy protection on the CD?

greynol

May 11 2008, 13:16

QUOTE(Cynic @ May 11 2008, 12:00)

My question is: wasn't track 12's CRC supposed to be F3324C9E, according to the first log, since all the other track CRCs agree?

Nope. When there is more than one pressing in the database, AR doesn't know which one belongs to your pressing.

QUOTE(Cynic @ May 11 2008, 12:00)

Should I trust this rip?

I think so, yes.

QUOTE(Cynic @ May 11 2008, 12:00)

Is this a configuration problem or is this due to the copy protection on the CD?

You're using burst mode so you shouldn't have any expectations. Timing problems don't necessarily mean there were errors. Absence of a timing problem is no guarantee that ~~there was an error~~ the rip was error-free either.

How do you know the CD has copy protection?

Cynic

May 11 2008, 14:55

QUOTE(greynol @ May 11 2008, 20:16)

When there is more than one pressing in the database, AR doesn't know which one belongs to your pressing.

So that's it, I wasn't aware of that, thanks for clarifying.

QUOTE(greynol @ May 11 2008, 20:16)

Timing problems don't necessarily mean there were errors. Absence of a timing problem is no guarantee that there was an error either.

I compared the WAVs of the AR verified rips using both EAC and the bit compare plugin of foobar and no differences were found between the rips which reported timing problems and the ones that didn't, so I suppose there's also no reason for concern there.

QUOTE(greynol @ May 11 2008, 20:16)

How do you know the CD has copy protection?

It has a "Copy Controlled" logo on the back cover, along with a "Playback problems may be encountered on some equipment" notice.

I had also tried using secure mode T&C to extract only track 12, but none of the 7 attempts were verified by AR, nor did the T&C EAC-calculated CRCs from each of the individual attempts agree with each other. That's why I was wondering whether this could be some configuration issue, maybe regarding overreading.

Eli

May 11 2008, 16:11

That drive does not over-read. You need to turn off over-reading.

Cynic

May 11 2008, 17:04

Are you sure?
I checked daefeatures.co.uk and my Pioneer model isn't listed, but Nero CD Speed reported that it overreads into the lead-out; having said that, I don't remember CD Speed's DAE test results being mentioned here at HA, so perhaps they're not reliable?

Also, greynol said that it appears that the DVR-111 does overread in this post.

greynol

May 11 2008, 17:54

Eli is absolutely correct to suggest looking into the overreading option since you can get an error at the end of the last track that can cause the track to fail AR verification when trying to overread into a lead-out with a drive that is not capable. Although when this error occurs, it should always be consistent.

Checking for overreading is simple enough. Uncheck the option to use AccurateRip and then click on the button that says "Detect read sample offset correction...". If it says Lead-Out or both then you're good to go. I would not trust Nero CD Speed results; I've worked with people in the past who have gotten incorrect information using that tool, at least when it came to ripping with EAC.

I scoured the web in order to determine which Pioneers can overread and which can't. I think my research yielded reliable data, but I don't own any of these drives and did not see the test results with my own two eyes.

When ripping in secure mode did you tell EAC to use C2 pointers? I think you might get different results depending on this setting. I have very little experience when it comes to ripping copy-protected discs.

Make sure you catch the edit in my previous post about the fact that there can be errors when ripping in burst mode even though EAC didn't report a any timing problems. Sorry about that!

Cynic

May 12 2008, 06:18

QUOTE(greynol @ May 12 2008, 00:54)

The weird part is that it isn't. Here are a few logs from T&C burst:

CODE

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 4 from 23. January 2008

EAC extraction logfile from 5. May 2008, 21:30

A Perfect Circle / Thirteenth Step

Used drive  : PIONEER DVD-RW  DVR-111L   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode : Burst

Read offset correction                      : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format      : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  7:40.37 |         0    |    34536   
        2  |  7:40.37 |  3:15.10 |     34537    |    49171   
        3  | 10:55.47 |  4:53.13 |     49172    |    71159   
        4  | 15:48.60 |  4:13.50 |     71160    |    90184   
        5  | 20:02.35 |  4:51.35 |     90185    |   112044   
        6  | 24:53.70 |  3:12.25 |    112045    |   126469   
        7  | 28:06.20 |  4:06.00 |    126470    |   144919   
        8  | 32:12.20 |  2:34.72 |    144920    |   156541   
        9  | 34:47.17 |  4:04.58 |    156542    |   174899   
       10  | 38:52.00 |  4:34.25 |    174900    |   195474   
       11  | 43:26.25 |  2:01.72 |    195475    |   204621   
       12  | 45:28.22 |  5:06.05 |    204622    |   227576   
       13  | 53:06.27 | 20:51.48 |    238977    |   332849   


Track 12

     Filename D:\Abel\Gravity.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Test CRC 61F9C6FC
     Copy CRC B822C191
     Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 4)  [14C8218E], AccurateRip returned [F3324C9E]
     Copy OK


No tracks could be verified as accurate
You may have a different pressing from the one(s) in the database

No errors occurred

End of status report

CODE

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 4 from 23. January 2008

EAC extraction logfile from 5. May 2008, 21:33

A Perfect Circle / Thirteenth Step

Used drive  : PIONEER DVD-RW  DVR-111L   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode : Burst

Read offset correction                      : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : Yes
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format      : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  7:40.37 |         0    |    34536   
        2  |  7:40.37 |  3:15.10 |     34537    |    49171   
        3  | 10:55.47 |  4:53.13 |     49172    |    71159   
        4  | 15:48.60 |  4:13.50 |     71160    |    90184   
        5  | 20:02.35 |  4:51.35 |     90185    |   112044   
        6  | 24:53.70 |  3:12.25 |    112045    |   126469   
        7  | 28:06.20 |  4:06.00 |    126470    |   144919   
        8  | 32:12.20 |  2:34.72 |    144920    |   156541   
        9  | 34:47.17 |  4:04.58 |    156542    |   174899   
       10  | 38:52.00 |  4:34.25 |    174900    |   195474   
       11  | 43:26.25 |  2:01.72 |    195475    |   204621   
       12  | 45:28.22 |  5:06.05 |    204622    |   227576   
       13  | 53:06.27 | 20:51.48 |    238977    |   332849   


Track 12

     Filename D:\Gravity.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Test CRC 44AF3263
     Copy CRC 3FCE0D96
     Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 4)  [FF8B8E51], AccurateRip returned [F3324C9E]
     Copy OK


No tracks could be verified as accurate
You may have a different pressing from the one(s) in the database

No errors occurred

End of status report

Notice the different overreading settings between the two logs and the differing CRCs within each.
Now T&C secure, with overreading enabled:

CODE

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 4 from 23. January 2008

EAC extraction logfile from 5. May 2008, 21:44

A Perfect Circle / Thirteenth Step

Used drive  : PIONEER DVD-RW  DVR-111L   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction                      : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : Yes
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : Yes
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Appended to previous track

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format      : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  7:40.37 |         0    |    34536   
        2  |  7:40.37 |  3:15.10 |     34537    |    49171   
        3  | 10:55.47 |  4:53.13 |     49172    |    71159   
        4  | 15:48.60 |  4:13.50 |     71160    |    90184   
        5  | 20:02.35 |  4:51.35 |     90185    |   112044   
        6  | 24:53.70 |  3:12.25 |    112045    |   126469   
        7  | 28:06.20 |  4:06.00 |    126470    |   144919   
        8  | 32:12.20 |  2:34.72 |    144920    |   156541   
        9  | 34:47.17 |  4:04.58 |    156542    |   174899   
       10  | 38:52.00 |  4:34.25 |    174900    |   195474   
       11  | 43:26.25 |  2:01.72 |    195475    |   204621   
       12  | 45:28.22 |  5:06.05 |    204622    |   227576   
       13  | 53:06.27 | 20:51.48 |    238977    |   332849   


Track 12

     Filename D:\Gravity.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Test CRC B822C191
     Copy CRC 61F9C6FC
     Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 4)  [105C5174], AccurateRip returned [F3324C9E]
     Copy OK


No tracks could be verified as accurate
You may have a different pressing from the one(s) in the database

No errors occurred

End of status report

QUOTE(greynol @ May 12 2008, 00:54)

Checking for overreading is simple enough. Uncheck the option to use AccurateRip and then click on the button that says "Detect read sample offset correction...".

I used an EAC-created Offset Test CD, and EAC reports only lead-out.

QUOTE(greynol @ May 12 2008, 00:54)

When ripping in secure mode did you tell EAC to use C2 pointers?

No, I didn't, when I examine C2 features with EAC it outputs a "Can't find matching C2 read mode" message, so C2 is always unchecked.

QUOTE(greynol @ May 12 2008, 00:54)

Make sure you catch the edit in my previous post about the fact that there can be errors when ripping in burst mode even though EAC didn't report a any timing problems. Sorry about that!

No problem, thanks for helping as always!

greynol

May 12 2008, 09:58

Just because you're having problems with the last track does not mean that it is related overreading. EAC's test says lead-out, so clearly your drive can overread and my comment about an error due to the lack of overreading being consistent does not apply to you.

I have this album and can double check the last track for you. Send me a PM.

Mitch A

May 12 2008, 10:31

May be relevent to your situation, I have about 5 CD's which have errors on the last track when I use Burst mode however when I switch to Secure no such problems.

Cynic

May 12 2008, 11:20

QUOTE(Mitch A @ May 12 2008, 17:31)

May be relevent to your situation, I have about 5 CD's which have errors on the last track when I use Burst mode however when I switch to Secure no such problems.

My case appears to be the opposite: sometimes I obtain an AR verified rip using burst mode, but haven't yet managed to do so using secure. The outcome seems to be quite random.

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