Hi all

I'm looking for recommendations for a hi-fi amp (I'm in the UK).
Main features:

1) Reasonably neutral (see below) sound
2) Drive 2 sets of speakers (independently and together)
3) Robust / durable
4) Under £200

I'm looking for something reasonably "neutral" (/flat) but not as neutral as my mixer.
I guess what I mean is a good balance betweem Low, Mid and High frequencies.
I listen to a very wide range of music: Classical, Jazz, and everything else.

My recently deceased Kenwood (KA1010) Amp was fine, and in terms of durability, excellent (lasted 18 years).

It'll get a great deal of use, so it needs to be robust.

I also use the amp to power 2 sets of speakers.
Simultaneously and seperately (i.e. A or B and A + B as switches).

The idea is that I have one set which is set up for monitoring purposes (though they aren't as flat as monitors) and another set in another room which are more punchy and bassy and are probably closer to a lower end hi-fi sound. So the amp need to drive both of these.

With the Kenwood I never had to move the bass and treble dials. And I'm looking for something similarly "neutral" ????

The TEAC AG790 has been recommended. Anyone know about this amp?

In terms of setup: mine is pretty much the same as "Main Routing" in this diagram:
Soundcard = M-Audio 24/96; main speakers are Gale (if that helps). PC is connected to amp and it's pretty much the only thing I use these days to listen to music.

Any suggestions very welcome and greatly appreciated.
Note: It can be ugly as hell (it's purely a practical issue for me).

C.

If I had an amplifier that in any way colored the sound, I would be very disappointed.

Thanks for the info; please forgive my lack of understanding, but are you saying that all amps will/should deliver the same sound?

C.

Amps unless defective (intentionally or not) should not color the sound perceivable. Distortion and hiss are another question - though, i haven't ever heard an amp where i actually noticed distortion. With any halfway acceptable amp, your worries should be hiss, power, durability, heat, interface, I/O, features and aesthetics. Thats what i gathered from my rather average experience with amps - buffs may have other information to add.

Okay. Thanks Lyx and pdq.

So what I'm looking for is an amp which is:

1) durable/robust
2) has sufficient power to drive 2 sets of speakers (with option to drive them simultaneously and seperately, i.e. A or B and A + B as switches).
3) very low hiss/additional noise
4) must not overheat when on for long periods
5) can be ugly as f*** though not a requirement
6) don't need any particularly fancy features
7) normal I/O (phono, cd, tape, aux)
8) budget < £200

Any suggestions, or recommendations greatly appreciated.

C.

As has already been said, if one amp sounds different than another, then it's defective. In fairness though, you keep saying "amp" but I don't think that is what you mean. You're looking perhaps for an integrated amp, which is an entirely different machine. To be honest, you shouldn't devote a lot of worry into it... you're not going to be able to tell the difference between the options in any event.

To address your needs:

1) "Durable/robust" are buzzwords. Not many amps/IA's aren't durable or robust unless they're defective.
2) Power isn't an issue for 99.9% of people. You're unlikely to use more than half a watt in any normal circumstance. The real question is how efficient are your speakers and what is there impedance?
3) If your amp is adding "hiss" or "noise" then take it back... again, it's defective.
4) Again, this is more about your speakers than your amp.
5) Okaaaaaay.
6) An amp doesn't have features. An integrated has very few.
7) Seems standard enough for anything.
8) Most brands have a pricing range. What have you looked at?

Without a doubt, you're not getting anything hi-fi for under £200. But you're in the UK, why not go and check out a Rotel? Doesn't get much better than that. The Kenwood KA-1010 was the 2x70watt IA, wasn't it? If so, that was a solidly built unit that could drive 2Ohm speakers without sweating. If your speakers are as old as the equipment, then you really want to have a careful look at their impedance. You may be at that point where it's best to upgrade a few things.

Cool. Thanks.

Main speakers are Gale (yes, as old as the amp) min impedence = 6Ohms and "power handling" = 75 watt.
The newer (old) speakers are: JPW ML310s (6Ohms and 60 watt).

Unfortunalely I'm not in a position to upgrade the other stuff. The only thing that is reasonably new is the PC.

I need a bass and treble control and like I say the ability to switch between speakers as well as running them together.

Yes, an integrated amp would have been accurate.
Would this (Marantz PM4001) do the trick?

As you've probably realised I'm no expert when it comes to this stuff. I just know what sounds okay to me, and a) that doesn't seem to be an issue, and b) if it was I wouldn't know that till I'd installed it.

Thanks.

C.

EDITED URL for spec

This is a genuine question.

Given that I'd expect you could get a non-defective integrated amp for about 200 quid, though with few features and relatively low power, what would be the difference between this and something "hi-fi," in terms of what a normal person could hear?

Hope this isn't thread-drift, but I'm confused about amps.

I've just found a very good deal on the above.
One question will it have sufficient power to deal with my speakers?

C.

Yes, as long as you are careful when using the system for parties. For normal listening, the 30W these will put into your speakers will be more than plenty. The spec sheet suggests that the amp will have no problem handling your 6 ohm speakers.

Thanks cabbagerat.
I'm having a lot of trouble as it seems that many amps in the sub £200 do not allow for the independent 2 speakers (a OR b). I've just found a good deal on this Sherwood AX4103, but again know nothing about them - just done a search but all I'm getting is stuff that contradicts what has been said here, and I trust HA members over those that talk about additional sweetness of tone.

I can get this old model reasonably cheaply and if spec-wise it suits I'm tempted:
http://www.richersounds.com/static/Sherwood%20AX4103.pdf

Again grateful for input --- I'm getting so much contradictory info from outside HA it's almost funny.

C.

I can't find any more specs for that amp, so I can't tell if it will drive your 6ohm speakers without trouble. Most amps will, however, so it sounds like a good option.

You might want to read this:
http://sound.westhost.com/amp-sound.htm. It's one of the best articles available on the subject, but could be too technical for you. The bottom line is that while amps can sound different, those differences are only weakly correlated with price (and negatively correlated, if anything, on the high end), and are extremely subtle. Look for concrete specs like THD+N, SNR, IMD% and the likes.

Just remember, whenever you find youself getting confused, come here and the kindly folks at HA will give you the straight answers.

Untrue. How an amp manages heat, how it protects the speakers from too high signals, how robust the casing is built, how robust the knobs and buttons are built, etc. etc...... are all things which have an influence on durability. Perhaps your idea of durability was rather limited when you wrote the above statement.

Due to my stereo equipment not breaking down for a long long time, I'd been out of the "audio market" for a good while. I'd read a great deal about "audiophile" bullshit on HA and found it amusing. Throughout my recent search for a replacement amp I've had the misfortune to be swamped in utter nonsense and have had the privilage to experience a CD player that had the "abiltity to deliver vocal with torrential levels of emotion and expression" in conjunction with an "audiophile grade integrated amp" which Hi-Fi choice described as "musical".

I ended up getting a good deal on a Denon.

In the listening room I tested it out against a £750 Cambridge Audio amp. The CD played its torrent of emotion through some large Mordaunt speakers.

I played Glenn Gould's 1980 Goldbergs as first test and my reaction on hearing the Denon was "oh ... sounds very middly and rather metallic". So then I asked them to switch to the relatively very costly Cambridge Audio amp and it sounded the same.

So I summised that it must be the speakers. I got home and played it through my old Gale speakers and the Denon sounded, just as pdq had stated in post no.2:

It sounded just like my old Kenwood used to. Furthermore Glenn Gould's piano actually sounded like a piano (so not sure what those giant test room speakers were doing). So my experience backs up what HA posters outlined on this thread, and runs entirely counter to pretty much everyone involved in the business of selling/reviewing audio equipment (online and offline).

Lesson learnt:

HA is truly an oasis of sanity and rationality in a sea of utter BS and outright deception.
I guess until one experiences it first hand you never really grasp just how bad the situation is.

So thanks to all in this post who took the time to reply - I really appreciate it.

As you all know I'm no electronics expert and without the info I got from here I really think I would have believed and bought into a good deal of nonsense which would ultimately have cost me money I don't have; and the reason I would have, is because although the message is often contradictory (i.e. one guy says Teac XXX is "smooth with a warmish bias", another says it's "a little harsh and unforgiving with a dry and slightly cool upper bass"), what is consistent and absolutely uniform (in magazines, review sites, and among sales people) is the message that each little component has an audible effect and all these factors put together create a vastly different "sound stage". A NAD for example was able to articulate "every nuanced feeling [...] with a naturalness that was physically and emotionally engaging". Because one is bombarded by this blanket message it's pretty hard to keep it entirely at bay - so like I say, a little sanity can go a long way (and yours did), so thanks again.

C.