Could someone tell me, what are DTS audio CDs?
I've heard, that it's possible to burn (IIRC on an ordinary blank CD-R) a compact disk with 5.1 music. Had anyone here tried this? Could you recommend any sites/tutorials or I should give up the idea?

DTS audio CD are just plain vanilla redbook audio CDs. The data on the disk looks like normal 2 channel 16 bit 44.1 Khz to any player. When you play these discs on your normal 2 channel system the tracks seem to contain only noise. However, if you route the data stream out a digital interface into a surround sound processor that supports this format you find that these discs contain indeed 5.1 music.

So, any CD player will do as long as you are using the digital out into a surround processor. The same also works on a PC with a soundcard that supports digital out as long as you have bit perfect playback (Winamp with ASIO output plugin works for me). Some software players can decode these directly like a sountrack from a video DVD.

Burning is simple if you have the encoded tracks. These files are just 2chanel 16bit 44.1Khz PCM files the you can treat like any other track you rip from a CD or generate on your computer. The link below has a collection for testing purposes

http://www.sr.se/multikanal/english/e_arkiv.htm

that you can burn on a CD to make your own surround sound discs.

Minnetoka now surecode has a commercial product to encode these files.

Cheers

Thomas

DTS audio CDs appear being quite cool and I would love encode some of them.

But I need surround sources for doing so and the only multichannel supporting audio discs I know are DVD-A and SACD. As I can play DVD-A on my computer I surely can rip them as soon as a DVD-Ripper exists.

Does anyone know a DVD-Ripper?

fragtal

yup...

many alternatives.. to shoose from..

start with X2CD...

How popular are DVD-A and SACDs? I have not seen them in my country. Have music companies begun releasing all albums (new or old) in either formats?

yup...


i can`t realy say.. since am norwegian.
i think the marked here is big.. but consumers are slow.

i belive the marked for DVD-A & SACDs are much bigger
in sentral europa, uk, us.. etc..
& there`s not so many titles yet.. i belive ??

DVDA will win this "war" i guess..SACDs exist in tree
different layers..
and there reported angry costumers.. who
have bought a SACD.. witch have been
"unsupported" with popular CD players.
(layer 1. was suposed to be suported
by regular cd players.)

bwt.. me think.. that DVD audio technology.. is far better
than SACD.. (any layer-mode,, or player..)

AFAIK there lis the hybrid SACD which can be played with a normal CD-player and the SACD-player. They are built with a normal CD-Layer and a DVD layer (that's what I guess, it'd be nice if someone could make that clear).
Then there are the only SACD-discs without a CD-layer, so that they cannot be played with regular CD-players.
Please, tell me about the third version of the SACD.

I cannot believe that Sony and Philips, who are the only developers of the SACD would have made many different standarts...

The DVD-A is only a CD with a higher bitdepth and Frequency and Multichannel support whereas the SACD brings innovations like 2,8MHz (dunno how to call it, at audio CDs it is 44,1kHz). It is a completely new way of storing the audio data! (I once read about it in a Sony Style, maybe I'm a bit influenced, but personally I prefer the SACD, just because it is (or should be) comptible with regular CD-players.

And I read that the SACD sounds more analogue!

@n68
if you were referring to me, pleeze tell me more about the "X2CD" and where I could get it for free (naturally if it is free!)

fragtal

yup...


as of x2cd:
http://www.x2cd.net/

there also vob2audio:
http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/download.../vob2audio.html

when it regards the 3. types of SACD..
am trying to get hold of the link.. of the sacd layout..
(it should be innhere someplace )

I know one department store (Karstadt) that sells SACDs in my city, haven't found them anywhere else yet. They all have a cardboard wrapper around the jewelcase, with a unified layout for all releases (looks pretty good if you ask me), and cost a ridiculous 25€. I can't remember which label these were from, I'll check next time I go out shopping.

I have never spotted DVD-As before.

I've heard that SACD were like DVD and had an ISO 9660 file structure, so that inserting an SACD in a DVD ROM drive, you could see some files. I couldn't know if the ISO TOC was on the CD or the SACD layer.

And I've heard someone (I think it's Curve Dominant, from George Massenburg forum) saying that in a comparison between SACD normal layer and enhanced layer, he prefered the normal layer.

How about making your own surround DTS-encodes from your regular stereo albums?

Check this: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&t...&threadid=29277

It is apparently also possible to burn ac3 onto a cd to play in most home theatre systems:

http://www.kellyindustries.com/diy_5_1.html

Haven't tried this but have seen reports of it working a number of times.

There are at least a few ac3 encoders out there and most digital audio workstations have surround mixers nowadays.

Maybe I did not express my self well:

What I am looking for is a ripper for Audio DVDs not the regular Video DVDs with AC3 sound. (I haven't checked the X2CD jet, but the Vob2Audio is not for my purposes)


@Kim

That is not what I expect. Dolby Pro Logic Surround is not comparable to REAL Sourround like Dolby Digital (5.1, EX, whatever...). And making surround samples out of simple stereo records would lead to fake surround without sounds that clearly appear coming only from behind.

@volcano

By accident I found a DVD-A of a CD I wanted to buy in a shop called SATURN (as you are living in Germany you should know it:)). But I never spotted SACD, except at Amazon.de.

fragtal

First of all, that described method is NOT Dolby Pro Logic Surround. It is called Ambisonics and is on totally different level compared to simple surround. I recommed this article for further information: http://s2n.org/Articles/Ambisonics.html

I also recommend that you read the linked Doom9 thread further as the person who started it explains how it works to people who don't understand it and there are later on comments from people who have tried it.


I'm very much interested of that technique and i'm going to test it at some point as it is said to work very well with electronic dancemusic which happens to be one of my favourite music. However, it will take some time as i don't have myself a 5.1 system but my friend is getting one at this spring and has promised that i can use it for testing.

There isn't anything that exists to rip the DVD-A off a disk yet.....You can't even record the pcm stream as it's disabled on most (not all from what I hear) 5.1 programs.....and the 24bit 192 kHz two channel stereo mixes are always disabled on the digital out streams....

I'm just now getting to play with both formats, having replaced my reciever and I also bought a new DVD player that supports both formats...DVD-A and also SACD...

I've only one SACD......Santana's Abraxas..and several DVD-A's...for 5.1..from what I read..the DVD-A is probably superior as the SACD are using comprssion for the extra channels....dunno for sure...

As to what I think? The Santana sounds slightly better than my MFSL version...no small feat.....DVD-A..L.A. Woman..Killer...and I do like the 5.1 mix as well...same with Fleetwood Mac's Rumors....

The Santana SACD is probably not that great a listening test as the master tape is over 30 years old. Same for The Doors..

I doubt anyone can tell the difference between a stereo version of the same thing in either SACD or 24bit 96 kHz stereo mix of the same album.

Now on a personal note...I like the video portion you get with DVD-A.

Someone mentioned above that one of the selling points of SACD is that it can by layered so it's possible to play them on CD's. True, but not for every one as was also mentioned above. But the DVD-A industry is not sitting on their laurels either. They will soon be producing a 2 sided disc...the other side for regular CD players.

Kim_C: I have tried the technique on a couple of tracks from a mix i've been working on. It sounds good, not amazing but much better than any stereo->5.1 dsp i've heard on a consumer reciever. Worth trying out definitely, i'm looking into using it on an original track with "normal" 5.1 effects running over the top.

3bean: When you say you can't record the pcm stream does that include analog outputs? Otherwise it should be possible to record in realtime from a player with 5.1 outputs, re-assemble and re-encode in DD/DTS? (with a massive quality loss obviously)

You are right, it is possible, BUT:if you are willing to lose the quality that is the only advantage of the DVD-A Audio layer in contrast to the AC3 stream, which usually also exists due to compabiltiy reasons, you can leave it!

@Kim

I took a short look at the page you linked and it appears being serious, but as you said it works well with Techno it is nothing for me .
btw. METAL RULEZ

fragtal

Thanks for the info!

I'm going to make a compilation cd of tracks from different styles on lines of house-garage-drum'n'bass-triphop-techno-nujazz to see how this method works on different kinds of music. If it works well then i'm going to try multichannel versions from couple of my favourite albums (Hospital Mix, Dj Shadow - Endtroducing and garagemix cd from 2cd-collection Ride The Underground).


What, no Prodigy for you?

Anyways, it could work for for you too, there's this comment on that Doom9-thread:



I guess metal has naturally quite a lot soundpressure, specially symphonic metal, so it might work very well.

Thanks, guys.
I'm gonna give ambisonics a try

Did anyone tried stereo to 5.1 ambisonic conversion himself?
I've some troubles with converting UHJ to b-format...
Guys, please, help if you can ...