I play most music from my HP laptop (Win XP), which has USB and firewire ports. My receiver has a USB audio input, so I use laptop USB out -->AVR USB for 2channel playback (the AVR loads a USB Audio codec to my laptop whenever it is connected, and most playback software like foobar2K can 'see' the codec in their device lists).
Some of my files are not Redbook standard (some are rips from my DVD-Audio discs, at e.g. 96kHz/24bit native format; 88.2/24 bit recordings off of SACDs; and even an album worth of 192/24 rips, damn you Neil Young). These play just fine over USB though it's unclear to me if the data are being altered by the time they get to my AVR (resampling, requantization). I'm guessing the USB Audio codec + USB port combo actually bypasses the integrated Conexant soundcard, but I'm not sure. Unfortunately no part of my system actually gives me SR/bitdepth readout that would allow me to check status along the way (except that foobar2k indicates the format of the file it's playing). FWIW my setup passes the 'udial' test which reveals processing-related clipping. When DSP is on in my receiver, I'm pretty sure *it* does resample everything to 96kHz/24 bits, if the input rates are lower than that. I'm fine with that, I'd just rather avoid any resampling before the AVR does its thing.
Anyway, I'm working up to archiving multichannel audio files ripped from discs I own -- I don't really care if they are DTS or DD or some form of lossless, I just want to be able to play them directly from my hard drive to my AVR (which will do decoding of DD and DTS). This will NOT be possible via the AVR's USB connection (it is 2-channel only, according the manual -- nor does firewire directly from the laptop to AVR work).
THus if I want to pass multichannel DTS or DD bitstreams, I'll need some external USB card that with S/PDIF or HDMI out (or ilink, a 'special' audio version of Firewire). But it looks like optical/coax can't actually pass 'hi rez' stereo beyond 48khz/24 (correct me if I'm wrong), so I'd have to reformat those files.
HDMI would pass anything I could give it.
SO a few questions:
1) are there external USB/Firewire cards that support multiple sample rate two-channel .wav file output up to 192/24, without resampling, as well as bitperfect DD/DTS bitstream output (including DTS 96/24)?
2) Is such thing even possible with an optical/coax connection?
2) if not, do any of them have HDMI connectivity?
IIRC, "iLink" is the same as the mini-Firewire thing, which I don't think has the power pins... I haven't seen any bus-powered device that connects with such connector. I don't think it'd be practical to do an external sound card that requires a brick to be powered (though they make HDDs like that, so who knows), or batteries.
I've read that you can do "high-res" stuff over Toslink and maybe coaxial, but almost no S/PDIF device supports those. Don't know if it's the S/PDIF specs that are preventing it, it was never clear to me. Someone else might know better.
So anyway, I don't remember much about XP, but your AVR (which one is it, BTW?) should have an integrated PC-compatible USB audio device. Can't you use kernel streaming or ASIO with it? It should be a separate audio device in Windows, that's why you can select it with other programs, and probably is visible in your sound devices panel. The other sound devices like the integrated laptop audio should not touch it, as you said.
I've read that you can do "high-res" stuff over Toslink and maybe coaxial, but almost no S/PDIF device supports those. Don't know if it's the S/PDIF specs that are preventing it, it was never clear to me. Someone else might know better.
So anyway, I don't remember much about XP, but your AVR (which one is it, BTW?) should have an integrated PC-compatible USB audio device. Can't you use kernel streaming or ASIO with it? It should be a separate audio device in Windows, that's why you can select it with other programs, and probably is visible in your sound devices panel. The other sound devices like the integrated laptop audio should not touch it, as you said.
I know my AVR was perfectly happy with a 5.1 DTS 96/24 over optical from a PS3 on Blu-Ray so you should be able to output hi-res over S/PDIF. Just check what your amp supports.
QUOTE (probedb @ Jun 22 2009, 11:09) 
I know my AVR was perfectly happy with a 5.1 DTS 96/24 over optical from a PS3 on Blu-Ray so you should be able to output hi-res over S/PDIF.
Standard DTS is lossy and not considered Hi-Rez. This is also true for the extensions like DTS-ES and DTS 96/24.
Hi-Rez are lossless formats like DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD, or plain PCM (in 5.1).
S/PDIF is not capable of Hi-Rez in 5.1 but can be used for Hi-Rez in stereo (24bit, 48 or 96 kHz PCM)
Hi-res is just that, higher-resolution than normal. Lossless is a different thing. DTS 96/24 is "hi-res" indeed, and it can be transmitted through S/PDIF. The thing is that "DTS 96/24" content is very rare, and I think it's the same old DTS compression.
I wonder about probedb's post though, he said he used it with a bluray. I don't know of any movies that have "DTS 96/24" format. For bluray, DTS-HD HR is the lossy format of DTS, and it should support up to 7.1 24-bit, 96 kHz audio. Unless it was a music disc?
In any case, "DTS 96/24" content is very rare. Despite of that, though, I'm pretty sure most DTS decoders from recent years are able to do the old DTS 96/24, and as with DTS-ES, it can be passed through any S/PDIF connection supporting DTS.
I wonder about probedb's post though, he said he used it with a bluray. I don't know of any movies that have "DTS 96/24" format. For bluray, DTS-HD HR is the lossy format of DTS, and it should support up to 7.1 24-bit, 96 kHz audio. Unless it was a music disc?
In any case, "DTS 96/24" content is very rare. Despite of that, though, I'm pretty sure most DTS decoders from recent years are able to do the old DTS 96/24, and as with DTS-ES, it can be passed through any S/PDIF connection supporting DTS.
QUOTE (andy o @ Jun 22 2009, 11:02)
I wonder about probedb's post though, he said he used it with a bluray. I don't know of any movies that have "DTS 96/24" format. For bluray, DTS-HD HR is the lossy format of DTS, and it should support up to 7.1 24-bit, 96 kHz audio. Unless it was a music disc?
Within Temptation's Black Symphony Blu-Ray has lots of multi-channel hi-res formats. DTS 96/24 5.1 being the highest I can get from the PS3 (no HDMI). It also has a PCM 96/24 5.1 track on there. My amp definitely lit up with DTS 96/24 and 5.1 channels showing. Receiver is a Denon AVR-2805 so not new either.
Yeah, but that's the "old" "DTS 96/24" format, which was designed to be able to go through S/PDIF in the first place and for use in DTS music discs (I think they were DVDs). So that you could pass it through is expected. Content, still, is very rare.
BTW, the "new" lossy "hi-res" DTS format is DTS-HD HR (High Resolution). It supports up to 7.1 24/96 but at higher bitrates, and that one can't be passed through S/PDIF. With the higher capacity of bluray (as opposed to HD-DVD) that one and DD+ aren't being used as much, or at all anyway, in favor of lossless, so they're very rare too.
BTW, the "new" lossy "hi-res" DTS format is DTS-HD HR (High Resolution). It supports up to 7.1 24/96 but at higher bitrates, and that one can't be passed through S/PDIF. With the higher capacity of bluray (as opposed to HD-DVD) that one and DD+ aren't being used as much, or at all anyway, in favor of lossless, so they're very rare too.
QUOTE (andy o @ Jun 21 2009, 23:47)
IIRC, "iLink" is the same as the mini-Firewire thing, which I don't think has the power pins... I haven't seen any bus-powered device that connects with such connector. I don't think it'd be practical to do an external sound card that requires a brick to be powered (though they make HDDs like that, so who knows), or batteries.
I have a DVD player that connects via ilink to the receiver, that's the only sort of of device I've ever gotten to work with thbe AVR's ilink connecton. THe AVR manual explictly warns that ilink connections from computers, cameras, and video recorders, will NOT work. And that holds true for me; when I connected the laptop Firewire port to my AVR, the laptop didn't 'see' any new device so there was no way to send anything out.
QUOTE
I've read that you can do "high-res" stuff over Toslink and maybe coaxial, but almost no S/PDIF device supports those. Don't know if it's the S/PDIF specs that are preventing it, it was never clear to me. Someone else might know better.
Yeah, from what I read, optical/coax S/PDIF *can* support some rates higher than 48 but whether it DOES in any particular case, is a question.
QUOTE
So anyway, I don't remember much about XP, but your AVR (which one is it, BTW?) should have an integrated PC-compatible USB audio device. Can't you use kernel streaming or ASIO with it? It should be a separate audio device in Windows, that's why you can select it with other programs, and probably is visible in your sound devices panel. The other sound devices like the integrated laptop audio should not touch it, as you said.
THe AVR (Pioneer 74txvi) definitely does load a USB audio device into the laptop when it's connected to it. But it is a two-channel device only (as stated in the AVR user manual). I've also had no luck passing .ac3 or .dts files to it, so it may be restricted in other ways, or maybe I just haven't figured out hwo to do that. I haven't tried Kernal streaming with it because I don't see how to activate that in the curent version of Foobar2k. I haven't tried an ASIO driver either but that's something I could look into.
I need an external interface anyway because I lately need a line-in option to my laptop, which currently has only mic-in. So I'm just looking for one that will work for all my needs. It doesn't seem that my USB direct connection can do multichannel, though it works adequately for 2-channel .wavs. HDMI out would seem ideal, but I'm happy to use S/PDIF , so long as I can get 2-channel performance as good as my USB connection.
QUOTE (andy o @ Jun 22 2009, 06:02)
Hi-res is just that, higher-resolution than normal. Lossless is a different thing. DTS 96/24 is "hi-res" indeed, and it can be transmitted through S/PDIF. The thing is that "DTS 96/24" content is very rare, and I think it's the same old DTS compression.
I wonder about probedb's post though, he said he used it with a bluray. I don't know of any movies that have "DTS 96/24" format. For bluray, DTS-HD HR is the lossy format of DTS, and it should support up to 7.1 24-bit, 96 kHz audio. Unless it was a music disc?
In any case, "DTS 96/24" content is very rare. Despite of that, though, I'm pretty sure most DTS decoders from recent years are able to do the old DTS 96/24, and as with DTS-ES, it can be passed through any S/PDIF connection supporting DTS.
I wonder about probedb's post though, he said he used it with a bluray. I don't know of any movies that have "DTS 96/24" format. For bluray, DTS-HD HR is the lossy format of DTS, and it should support up to 7.1 24-bit, 96 kHz audio. Unless it was a music disc?
In any case, "DTS 96/24" content is very rare. Despite of that, though, I'm pretty sure most DTS decoders from recent years are able to do the old DTS 96/24, and as with DTS-ES, it can be passed through any S/PDIF connection supporting DTS.
DTS 24/96 isn't all that rare in my collection...it's often an alternate format for DVD-Audio discs (e.g., all of the GEnesis reissues) and it can be passed with S/PDIF. My AVR decodes it, so I definitely want to be able to pass it as bitstream from my HDD.
I'm not worrying right now about BluRay audio formats...I don't see getting into that for awhile.
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