Can anyone have a go at a step by step guide to using replay gain with MPC. Some questions:

1. Do you have to use Frank's replaygain.exe. If so, how do you use it. What command lines do you have to use? I know that there is a seperate thread with details on this, but I'm talking "lead me up the garden path" here.

2. What happens when you have used replay gain. Does it alter the data in the mpc file, or does it add a replay gain field of some sort?

3. What is the difference between album and song replay gain? I know what the effect is, but what are the mechanics of setting this up with one's mpc archive? For instance, if I have a directory with the seperate tracks off one album, can I use album gain on those tracks as a group, or does one need to have the whole album as one mpc file?

4. When you use the new winamp in_mpp.dll with replay gain support, how does it adjust the gain level? What do the "radio gain" and "audiophile" buttons do? Do they only work after you have previously used replaygain.exe? If you use these options in in_mpp.dll without first using replaygain.exe, what does this do?

As you can see, I find this one of the most confusing subjects! :confused:

You should use "replaygain --auto *.mpc" for each album separately (So do it in separate directory for each album).
It will calculate both Radio (Frank's Track Level Adjustment) and Audiophile (Frank's Album level adjustments) and save the values to the file headers.

Radio (Track) replaygain is used to set all the files to the same predefined (defined by David Robinson) loudness.

Audiophile (Album) replaygain adjusts all the album tracks of certain album the same amount, but the amount will depedent on album. Audiophile replaygain will try to bring albums more closer together loudness wise (towards loudness predefined by David Robinson). The idea is to keep the album's internal loudness differencies.

For example if you have a quieter album, all the files of that album may get Audiophile (Album) replaygain of +2dB. With louder album, all the files of that album may get Audiophile replaygain of -6dB.
Audiophile (Album) replaygain will try to even the loudness differencies between albums, but still maintain album's internal loudness differencies, because each file of a certain album will get the same Audiophile(Album) gain value calculated for that certain album.

Now you can choose from the new MPC WinAmp plugin, whether you want to use Radio gain (Track) or Audiophile gain (Album) adjustments, or ignore the gain adjustments (No gain).

After the use of replaygain.exe you can copy all the files of separate albums to the same directory if you want, but replaygain adjustment should be done album by album. Of course if you're only interested in Radio gain, then this doesn't matter.

No, it doesn't alter the wavesample data at all. replaygain.exe saves the values to the mpc file header and the WinAmp plugin can now be set either to use Radio gain (Track adjustment) or Audiophile gain (Album adjustment) or not to use any gain information at all (disabled) or use even user defined scale.

I hope my explanation above already covered this. You do not need to have album as one big mpc file. Just use "replaygain --auto *.mpc" for each album separately.

Frank made the possibility to adjust the Radio (Track) gain also manually. For example "replaygain -2 file.mpc".
If you change the Radio (Track) gain manually it means that the Radio gain calculation for that file is most likely not valid any more.

There's no way yet to adjust the Audiophile (Album) gain manually. I hope Frank will implement this, because if you have entire CD of very quiet music, you may want to use lower value for Audiophile (Album) gain than calculated by the program. The program may bring up the Audiophile (Album) gain too much but that depends of course on your personal taste.

When you use "Radio gain" the Radio (Track) gain adjustment values will be used. All tracks played (wheter originally quiet or loud) should have approximately the same perceived loudness.

"Audiophile" uses the Album gain values. All albums should be more closer together loudness wise, but album's internal loudness differencies are still there.

"No gain" option ignores all gain adjustment values, so it plays like before the use of replaygain.

If you have Radio or Audiophile gain turned on in the plugin, and the file you play does not have ReplayGain information, it will play it normally without any gain adjustment.

Hope that helps

Nick

Ta JohnV and NickSD. That has helped immensely.

More questions:

1. In this eg. I can see the track level adjustments, but where is the album or audiophile level adjustment?

D:Neil YoungDecade - Disc 1 (1977)>replaygain --auto *.mpc
Level Adjustment | Peak Level (Adjst)| Filename
-----------------------+-----------------------+-------------------------------
+0.00 dB => -2.24 dB | 0 => 24495 (18927)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
01 - Down to the Wire.mpc
+0.00 dB => -2.55 dB | 0 => 29619 (22084)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
02 - Burned.mpc
+0.00 dB => -2.05 dB | 0 => 31801 (25115)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
03 - Mr. Soul.mpc
+0.00 dB => -0.63 dB | 0 => 28103 (26137)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
04 - Broken Arrow.mpc
+0.00 dB => -2.02 dB | 0 => 31533 (24990)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
05 - Expecting to Fly.mpc
+0.00 dB => +2.72 dB | 0 => 13045 (17842)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
06 - Sugar Mountain.mpc
+0.00 dB => +4.73 dB | 0 => 14093 (24294)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
07 - I Am A Child.mpc
+0.00 dB => +0.69 dB | 0 => 24693 (26735)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
08 - The Loner.mpc
+0.00 dB => +6.12 dB | 0 => 18143 (36704)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
09 - The Old Laughing Lady.mpc
+0.00 dB => +1.18 dB | 0 => 14171 (16233)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
10 - Cinnamon Girl.mpc
+0.00 dB => +1.57 dB | 0 => 13651 (16356)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
11 - Down by the River.mpc
+0.00 dB => -1.74 dB | 0 => 19955 (16332)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
12 - Cowgirl in the Sand.mpc
+0.00 dB => +1.02 dB | 0 => 15733 (17693)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
13 - I Believe in You.mpc
+0.00 dB => +3.16 dB | 0 => 13383 (19255)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
14 - After the Gold Rush.mpc
+0.00 dB => -0.88 dB | 0 => 22315 (20165)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
15 - Southern Man.mpc
+0.00 dB => +3.15 dB | 0 => 18681 (26847)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 -
16 - Helpless.mpc

D:Neil YoungDecade - Disc 1 (1977)>

2. There are two versions of mppdec: a 16 bit and 24 bit version. What difference does it make if you use one or the other with replaygain?

Sorry, I've found the answer to Q1 - listall *.mpc gives:

D:Neil YoungDecade - Disc 1 (1977)>replaygain --listall *.mpc
Title | Album |
Level- | (Peak+)| Level- | (Peak+)|
Adjustment| Peak (Adjst)|Adjustment| Peak (Adjst)| Filename
----------+--------------+----------+--------------+---------------------------
-2.23 dB | 24495 (18949)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 01 - Down to the Wire.mpc
-2.54 dB | 29619 (22109)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 02 - Burned.mpc
-2.04 dB | 31801 (25144)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 03 - Mr. Soul.mpc
-0.62 dB | 28103 (26167)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 04 - Broken Arrow.mpc
-2.01 dB | 31533 (25019)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 05 - Expecting to Fly.mpc
+2.72 dB | 13045 (17842)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 06 - Sugar Mountain.mpc
+4.73 dB | 14093 (24294)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 07 - I Am A Child.mpc
+0.69 dB | 24693 (26735)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 08 - The Loner.mpc
+6.12 dB | 18143 (36704)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 09 - The Old Laughing Lady.mpc
+1.18 dB | 14171 (16233)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 10 - Cinnamon Girl.mpc
+1.57 dB | 13651 (16356)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 11 - Down by the River.mpc
-1.73 dB | 19955 (16351)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 12 - Cowgirl in the Sand.mpc
+1.02 dB | 15733 (17693)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 13 - I Believe in You.mpc
+3.16 dB | 13383 (19255)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 14 - After the Gold Rush.mpc
-0.87 dB | 22315 (20188)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 15 - Southern Man.mpc
+3.15 dB | 18681 (26847)| -0.73 dB | 31801 (29238)| Neil Young - Decade - Disc 1 - 16 - Helpless.mpc

Q2 still remains.

You can only use the 24 bit mppdec version if you have something that can play 24 bit files. So if you are playing MPC files with mppdec and have a 24 bit soundcard you can use it. But if you are decoding to burn the wav files on a CD, you must use the 16 bit version. For ReplayGain it has no consequences (I think...)