Hello hydrogen people,

This is going to be my first post here. I come from Head-Fi and I am fed up with all the voodoo in that site. Getting some kind of objective info is too much to ask.

So far I have spent more money that I would have liked on headphones (personal matters emptied my wallet ), knowing speakers are the solution, but I can't have a speaker system at this present time, nor in a near future.

I have different headphones, dynamic and orthodynamic headphones (Fostex T50RP). The differences between these types are subtle, and both technologies are very capable of giving nice SQ.

Even so, if you know, Head-Fi is built upon myths and hype. I have thought about searching for the last headphone I will buy, and I think it has to be something special/different.
On Head-Fi, loads of people say that electrostatic headphones are the holy grail. They say that it is the true "high-end" path. I, obviously as I am writing here, don't believe it. I have tried to search for some objective view on it but have found very little.

What really attracts me is that it is a different technology than that of the dynamic or orthodynamic. The big downside of this kind of headphones is that they need an specific amplifier.

From the original STAX site we have the following:
Basic System amp:



SRM-727II (Top of the line)


SRM-323II (Mid line)


All of them are SS. I don't like tube amps due to their inconveniences and personal likings.

They seem to be, apart from frequency range, size, number of inputs/outputs, power consumption, and weight (which are irrelevant regarding sound quality and human threshold of listening), exactly the same except on the maximum output voltage.

The "cheapest" one that corresponds to the basic system outputs 280 V r.m.s. / 1 kHz whilst the more powerful unit outputs 450 V r.m.s. / 1 kHz.
I doubt STAX would build an amplifier that would under power the headphones.

I don't know if anyone has done any RMAA test between different electrostatic amp units. So, just for the info we have on different SS amplifiers, if I were to buy some electrostatic headphones I would go for the cheapest one (that sent to my home is still far from cheap, but as my B-day approaches it could be some kind of generous present). Do you think the basic amplifier could have enough power to drive any electrostatic headphone (STAX) to ear shattering levels?

Do you know how electrostatic amplifiers perform? (Flat FR response)

Finally, why am I asking this? Well mainly because of what we know, that amplifiers as far as they have good specs and a flat output frequency under the impedance load used, they will all "sound" the same. If I finally decide to get an expensive B-day present, I would like it to be useful for any other stat headphone (if I ever become crazy again and decide to throw some money on another model). I am also asking this because I have spent too much time reading Head-Fi forums and I finish having doubts.

If anyone has any electrostatic amplifier RMAA tests, would you be kind enough as to share it in this thread?

Bullseye

Oh, I forgot about one other thing. Anyone on this forums has tried any electrostatic system? What is all the fuzz about? (More strategies to empty the customer's wallet, or?)

I wish there were some measurements available for the electrostatic amplifiers too.. (I believe you need an attenuator, or a voltage divider to RMAA those with computer soundcards)

I went to Canjam '09 a few months back, and listened to headphones extensively, including various electrostatic headphones. To my personal preference, current STAX lineups were way too bright, even with different amplifiers & tube amps. (If you really want to go for STAX, try to look for discontinued STAX Lambda Pro & STAX ED-1 equalizer module, the best STAX setup ever produced)

from Sennheiser, Germany:
Baby Orpheus was bassy & heavy like HD600, Orpheus was really well-balanced but extremely PRICY(!!)

from Head-Direct(HEaudio), China:
I found Jade headphone positioning somewhere between orpheus & baby orpheus, in terms of tonal balance.

from KOSS(I've never listened to it so better not trust me on this), USA:
I do not know about these. If I am understanding KOSS correctly, their tonal balance should be somewhat mid-range-attenuated, making the high & low boosted.

To me, electrostatic headphones were not that different from other types of headphones in term of sound quality & fidelity, at least subjectively. The only electrostatic headphone that sounded better to me than top-notch dynamic headphones, such as HD800, was perhaps Orpheus, and it was the only one.

Welcome to the forum. A few years ago I did some extensive listening to some Stax electrostatic headphones (Lambda Pro) and liked them very much. Electrostatic transducers tend to be very linear, especially at amplitudes within their operating range because the screens in front/back of the transducer create a push/pull force. Because a headphone transducer is so close to the ear, they are reasonably well suited as a technology. There are some considerations...

If you look at the specifications you will notice the primary challenge of electrostatics: they require a high voltage bias to be applied to the two screens (in front and behind the transducer/moving surface) and they typically require a very high voltage amplification of the audio signal applied to the transducer in order to get reasonable efficiency (= can play loud enough). So the amplifiers for the electrostatic headphones are providing a high voltage DC bias to the screens and a very high-gain amplification to the transducer. You can't plug a typical electrostatic headphone into a conventional headphone jack - no DC bias and very low voltage levels.

Note that there are some tradeoffs in the various models. Typically the further apart you put the screens the more room there is for the transducer to move which allows for higher volume output, especially at low frequencies. The further apart you put the screens the higher the voltages need to be to achieve the same output level, hence the more expensive amplifiers.

My own opinion is that the electrostatics I have heard sound very good to me (very clear/low distortion, very linear) and that to make the electrostatic technology work results in a very expensive solution. Some can be heavy too, which can lead to physical fatigue for your head.

I haven't seen any objective measurements on the most recent electrostatics, so I don't know how technically accurate the latest models are or whether their distortion and linearity are much better than a dynamic set. I own a reasonably good dynamic pair of headphones and they sound quite good to me - so my behavior would indicate that I don't think the extra "specialness" (performance? exclusivity?) of the electrostatics are worth the money. That all depends on how much money you have and how important this is to you. I don't think you need to spend a large amount of money on headphones to get pretty good performance.

Thank you for the welcome DigitalMan,

About them needing an specific amplifier I already knew about it. That is what I asked in my post if anyone knew (and could prove objectively) if the amp of the "basic system" has the necessary output voltage to drive any electrostatic headphone (like the new or old STAX) to acceptable listening levels (and even have some more just to have more control over the volume). I like listening to my music at low levels (I am always turning the volume down), but prefer to have a bit more volume to play with.

Acquiring new headphones has become more of a sort of psychological help. I am going through some hard times and getting something material helps me. The headphones give me something that it is the ability to listen to music which lets me "escape" or face my daily problems with more ease. But that is getting into my personal life.

Could you tell me please what dynamic headphones you have? I am happy with the ones I have, but always strive to look for something different, or at least something significantly better. I know I can always sell some of this stuff, so the money loss does not have to end up being so big. Looking at electrostatic headphones is also a way for me to understand what does this technology has that makes some people like them so much, or to understand how far away their craziness goes.

Then it is a shame there are no measurements of electrostatic amplifier nor how do they perform. I tend to think that most likely they would act like any single ended (non electrostatic) amplifier, but I may be wrong and I prefer to have an objective answer and data that confirms what I think.

@ udauda, thank you for your reply, however I was kind of looking for something else than subjective opinion on the matter. But it is always good to get some more info. In the end it has to be me who has to take everything in account and make my own conclusions, to make good decisions

Finally i would like to add that what is with everyone liking "vintage equipment" more than newer equipment, which is supposed to have improved, or to have been checked and tried to change the flaws older models might have? I don't understand then, from comments such as those, why are then all the companies trying to make new models, if the old ones are supposed to be so great.

Thank you both for your answers

Just because something isn't brand new has little to do with whether or not it sounds good. Personally, I'd rather have quality used equipment rather than cheap new stuff.

On a side note, I still think the best sounding midrange I've ever heard, came from a rebuilt pair of second-hand Quad ESLs.

I am not speaking about something being NEW or being USED, I am speaking about the technology.

Yah, so was I. In fact, in terms of amplifiers and speaker technology, very little ever really changes. I have thirty year old technology that sounds better than new technology being engineered right now. For instance, Bose has being pushing their new technology for years. Is it any better than a thirty year old design of a pair of average studio monitors? Personally, I don't think so.

Well, personally, I don't like the idea of having 200V on my head, so near my ears. But one thing bothers me: I suspect this is very pricey gear, considering the technology being used. Wouldn't it be better to just buy excellent classic headphones for the same price, which you can drive with any amplifier? If (for example) the headphones and amplifier cost 200 dollars, wouldn't it be better to buy classic headphones for 200 dollars? I suspect they could sound better, and we are talking higher class of headphones here, not the 100$ ones.
And second, yeah, you will have to finally decide on them.
Maybe I am oldfashioned, but I remember from a long time ago that electrostatic speakers can't play bass well, maybe that has changed (or it doesn't matter for powers this low), and so I am thinking that there is some EQ going on in the amplifiers... am I wrong here?

Hey there,

Thank you for your opinion. Well I have been really thinking it this last days. One of my questions got answered on Head-Fi. I was trying to know if the electrostatic amplifier (the "cheapest" one) was enough to drive any headphone giving it enough output voltage and it really has (not as if I were surprised, more I was waiting for that reply). They say you can listen through music with them with the volume knob at 10 o'clock.

Hence if I decide to get a basic system i would have a driver unit that would serve me with any electrostatic headphone of the market (except the Koss electrostatic one).
The biggest downside of all is that it is very expensive gear indeed! I already have some nice dynamic headphones. However as I said it before, acquiring new headphones helps me with my daily problems (and upcoming black future ) ... And if I am going to do so I prefer to get something useful and interesting rather than something which performs the same. That is why I am looking for this technology.

Second, electrostatic equipment sells great second hand, so if I were to get rid of them I wouldn't loose too much. Even more, I could sell them for the same price I bought them.

About them lacking bass I am not sure. People's opinions vary way too much to get any reliable info. I am not a bass head, but I like my bass where it has to be. If i was able to have a speaker room I would have forgotten long ago about this headphone stuff.

What I am still interested is in getting some electrostatic amplifier measurements. Those would be interesting.

Original Quads are from the 50s. I think that counts as old technology.

If you are curious about the "quality" of the SR-202+Amp, Smyth Research uses them with their headphone surround sound technology. Considering that Smyth Research seems to have made a real product (as opposed to the many fantasy products in the audio world) I imagine they carefully picked the headphone system to use with their system. That probably means the SR-202+Amp is a good system.

My dynamic headphones are Sennheiser HD580s. Also not "the latest technology" or the very highest end, but I like them quite a lot and don't actually have a desire to buy new ones.

Let us know how it goes and happy listening!

Have you considered the AKG K1000. Yes, it is old technology--dynamic, but so is electrostatic, it is also a unique technology. I had Stax back in the late 70's. And I'm not going there even though folks claim the Omegas sound "dark" and have solved the high freq razor problem.

The K1k's, as they are often called, are no longer produced so you can only buy a used pair but that should not deter you. You will pay more than what they originally cost and you will be able to resell them with virtually no/little loss. You need a good speaker amp to drive them (I use Spectral DMA50---yes it's old too)! The amp you choose will determine the sound. Tube, ss, etc. They scale up wonderfully.

I collect social security so I'm not into this new is better line that has taken your fancy--if I may say so it reflects a great deal of either ignorance or lack of experience--or both.

BUT if you must have the latest technology in headphones it is in the world of IEM's Check out JH-13PRO's. From what I read they are very good and the latest rage. BUT I can assure long after the JH13's have passed into oblivion--the K1000's will still be selling for more than their original cost---ADJUSTED for inflation.

Good luck in your search, George aka An Ol' fa*t.

Thanks odigg for the link. Even so $3000 for the total including a pair of $500 STAX headphones is a big price.

gsawdy, thank you for your opinion.
The problem about the akg K1000 you said is that it is 1) hard to find, 2) out of production, 3) extremely expensive, and I am only in the world of headphones because I can't have a dedicated speaker room yet.

I don't enjoy spending a lot of dough knowing I can get a better sound experience with a set of speakers, some room acoustics and EQ + DRC for a good price.

The JH13 seems to be the newest toy for a lot of people hence a lot of hype therefore really difficult to know how it really sounds. Then we get back to being very expensive, needing personal fit, shipping, etc... can become extremely expensive and I don't like IEMs in general.

I think I have taken my final decision. I will get the STAX basic system and will report back. Thank you all for the help!

Well, I finally purchased the 2050A system. Have to wait to receive it and once I do I need to buy the power adapter for it. Will go to an electronics store taking the unit and will get the correct one.

Will report back once I get it.