Hey guys,

I'm looking for new headphones that sound similar to the HD650s. I've read countless reviews and think that these should be the right headphones for my taste.

Currently I only own PX 100 and I think that they are a bit too dark and find that mids sound a bit muffled. Also they are a bit small for my tall head imho.

The reason I'm looking for alternatives is that the HD650s are too expensive for me, below half of it's price would be much better.


Hope you can give some advice, thanks.

edit: Do you think headroom's FR charts are trustworthy?

No, I do not think those graphs are trustworthy.

It would help if you provided a budget. A nice alternative might be the Shure 840 which can be had for $150 if you shop around.

Personally, I think the HD650 is too dark sounding and sounds slightly muffled. So if you are trying to get away from that...

Compared with his PX100, HD650 should sound bright and clear to him...

Hard to recommend you any headphone as long as you don't tell us the kind of music you are hearing or the equipment you want to plug the headphone in.

I find the HD650 a good choice for overall music. They sound very neutral to me.
But probably the little brother HD600 would be a better choice for you.
They're less expensive, the sound is very near to HD650.
I own its predecessor HD580 since 15 years and i'm very happy with it.
Although i tried all the headphones below too, i always turned back to my old HD580

If you hear classics AKG K601 could be a good choice for you.
(Very bright sound, too less bass for me...)

For pop/rock music Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro (not the Premium/Edition, they're too expensive) could fit your needs.
(they have the typical german "taunussound", means good bass and trebles but discreet mids).

If you want to plug the headphone to mobile player or pc/laptop, none of the above are a good choice for you.
Their impedance is too high and the degree of efficiency will be too low, so they will probably sound too silent on this kind of equipment.
Then you should give Denon AH-D1001 a chance.

The HD-580 seems to still be available for about $200, so I would recommend that. I have a pair from a long time ago and really like 'em except that the cable is easy to damage (but you can get a replacement). I also have a pair of PX-100's for portable use and am constantly amazed how good they sound for the price.

Keep in mind that the HD-580 (and I assume the HD-650) are going to be much more difficult to drive than the PX-100s (i.e. an iPod is not going to work out unless you just listen to chamber music in a quiet room).

edit: Oh, 1000th post!

odigg, I will look into your Shure suggestion. But the price (€ 180) would be my upper limit.

tedgo, I'm listening mostly to metal (Opeth ) and rock and sometimes even some electronica. The PX 100s actually give a nice punching (double) bass drum sound, but other than that it feels a bit like the music's hiding behind a curtain.
I've heard some good things about the HD 580, shame it's out of production.

I have considered the K601 but figured out, as you did, that the sound would be too neutral, i.e. bass shy. Some guys on the german hifi-forum said it sounded a bit like an old kitchen radio.

Will also look into the DT990's, although I'd prefer more 'flat' sounding headphones.

I've also considered the D1001, but its more or less closed architecture won't help with the muddiness, right? Besides, I think that the whole Dxxxx range is overpriced.

High quality source and amplification is no problem, I'll use them at home mostly.

edit: Congratulations bryant, and thanks for all the suggestions so far.
edit2: What do you think about the HD555/595?

Then indeed the HD600 would be a good choice for you.
I think the balanced mid-range (some say it would be too prominent) fits good to rock/metal. Especially since you prefer a flat sounded headphone.
They are flat sounded, but some say they would sound not as clear as Beyerdynamic or AKG (not my meaning. I think the HD600 are much more neutral than the too high AKG or the too "effective sounded" Beyerdynamic).


Depends on the equipment the AKG is plugged in.
They are very choosy.
On my old Onkyo DX-7711 cd player they sound very ugly, on a philips mini-hifi-system they sound very good and very silent, with nearly no bass, on pc.


No, i don't think so. I heard the AH-D1001 on saturday in a hi-fi shop (my HD580 begins to get weakness of old age in between ) and was surprised about its clear sound. There are some closed headphones around with good sound. Not as "airy" as open architecture, but more "direct" and still clear.

Regarding the HD595:
I never owned them but tried them too on saturday.
They are a class below HD580/600/650.
Less clear and less bass but still good.
And still far better than your PX100
Compared them with the Denon AH-D1001 at the hifi shop and the HD595 lost the competition for me...
But maybe only caused by the loudness the Denon's gave to me compared with the sennheisers. And the test was very short (haven't had enough time...).
You should better test them by yourself. Its really a matter of taste.
And you'd save some money with one of this two headphones (in germany they're available at about €110, don't know about your location, though).

EDIT: Forget the HD555!

Hmmmm, I found some more measurements.

This is the PX 100, and pretty flat K701:

Up to 150 Hz I don't see much difference between the two, can you confirm something like this? Or is that meaningless too?
Cause that would mean that the PX 100 don't have much bass at all, contrary to many reviews.

The DT990 shows the bathtub response tedgo mentioned:


Regardless of that, I'm pretty indecisive so this will be a tough choice... let's see if I can review some of these in AKG land..

edit: On headfi I've seen someone disassembling HD 555 and 595 and they looked pretty identical, but the 555 one had a piece of foam behind the piece next to the ear in front of the speaker.
edit: Forgot to mention that I couldn't live without dsp_bs2b.

You shouldn't decide about headphone because of its good or bad measurements!
The best measurement is your ear.
You should ALWAYS hear the headphones by yourself before buying one.
YOU must live with it the next few years, not any measurement equipment
Measurements can only give a hint about a characteristic of a headphone but don't replace a listening session.

We can only recommend you some phones as a kind of "pre-selection" what phones you should hear in a shop (or anywhere else).
But you should still hear it before buying it!

Yeah, I know. It's just that it's not so easy to find a good shop with suggested headphones around here. *sigh

A blind bought headphone only based on our recommendations probably wouldn't make you glad, i guess...

But i think you can't make anything wrong with the HD600.

About some more as half the price and still much better than your PX100 are the HD595 and the Denon AH-D1001.
As you mentioned a high quality source and amplification and you have qualms about closed headphones, i would choose the HD595, when you want to save some money

But don't beat me when you bought them without having heard them

The HD555 is a great headphone. I don't know why anybody sould "forget" it. The HD 555/595 uses the same driver. Apparently the only difference is a film around the driver and there is some sonic difference from this. Many reviewers stating some headphones are at "another level" are following nothing but the usual effect of headphones being at difference price points. More placebo effect. As far as the HD595 being a level below the HD600, that's a subjective opinion as well. A number of people find the HD600 dull sounding and prefer the HD595.

Just so you know, the HD-580 and HD-600 supposedly sound the same. The differences are supposedly purely cosmetic.

Graphs are interesting, but plenty of them don't accurately represent the differences in what people hear. The K701 and DT880 typically have graphs that show similar bass response, but they sound audibly different.

Another headphones is the DT770. It does have a bathtub like response but it's still a nice sounding headphone.

I don't know about the Denon 1001K, but the 2000 and above are great headphones. If the Denon 1001K is anything like the higher numbered Denon models the 1001K is a winner.

You might also want to look into the Sony V6/7506 and ATH-M50.

As for all this "high quality" source and implication business, I'd like to see even 10% of claims about that stuff verified in a blind test.

I find the difference between 555 and 595 is bigger than between 595 and 600...
The 555 seems to have a peak at about 3kHz, at least the mid-high range sounds a bit bloated to me. That makes it not as clear as the 595 (to me, at least).


Thats one of the reasons i always recommended to hear the headphones before buying them
Everyone has other hearing habits
To me the HD600 (same goes for HD580, because they are nearly the same) sounds more neutral and less spectacular than HD595. But this claim is only based on the quick HD595 test i made on saturday. A long time test could proof it wrong


Never heard of them and never seen them in any shop...
I've only seen some Sony MDR XB700/500 in the last time.
Haven't tried them so far as they are claimed as "extra bass" headphones and this doesn't implies a balanced sound characteristic.
But i'm interested in. If anybody has experience with them, please let me know

Here is the comparison of HD555/595 internals.

As for the "high quality source/amp" I was trying to say that I don't listen out of an old c-media onboard soundcard, if you know what I mean.

Oh, interesting link.
The frequency response seems to proof my claim about a peak at 3kHz from the HD555 compared with the HD595.
I ever knew, my ears are the best measurement equipment

Although it may sound good for some others ears. So a listening session is still the best.

The Sony V6/7506 is a very popular monitoring headphone and are not colored in the bass for euphonic reasons. They are typically sold in pro audio stores.

Thank you
I found them in amazon online store.
Interesting. Never heard of them before.
Maybe i order them the next time i'm "online-shopping" for testing.

Btw, what's the HD 590s successor / what can it be compared to?

I know this is like a 180° turn, but I'd also like to gather some closed/sealed headphone recommendations like the Shure 840 that was mentioned before.
The D1001 seems to offer very little isolation.

edit: ATH-M50?

Oh, you're lucky guy
I was again on "testing tour" today and tested the AKG K272HD.
Isolation is pretty good (i couldn't hear the shop assistant any more ), better than Denon AH-D1001 and the headphone sounds pretty good.
More balanced than K 601 because it doesn't has its peak in high frequencies.
But not that airy, spatial and rich in details of course...

K272HD is the same as K271MkII, except the latter comes with two sets of ear pads (velour and pleather), automute feature and detachable cable.
Maybe my choice as replacement for my HD580 for pc/laptop.

Don't know the ATH-M50, but odigg already recommended the Beyerdynamic DT770 ("bathtub sound") or the Sony MDR 7506 (i don't know it) before.

Excuse me for interrupting.

The HD-600 really is a good headphone. The sound is very flat and balanced, it doesn´t add what isn´t there. However, I feel that the deep bass area is somehow muted. The HD-580 is the same headphone. The only difference between the two is the casing: the latticework on the outside of the earcups from the HD-600 is metal, the HD-580 is plastic. Suprisingly, it makes a different in sound. Furthermore, they changed some foam in front of the driver. But they have the same driver. You could make a HD-600 out of a HD-580... I´ve had both, the HD-600 is still in my possession. You may want to know that it is very robust although it looks a bit fragile. After five years of extensive wearing and listening with the HD-600 the cushions have started to dissolve but in a few days I´ll have new ones.

If you like a closed headphone, I´d recommend the Sony MDR-XB 500. It looks nice, has a sturdy built and you can wear it for a long time (the cushions are very soft). The sound however is far from natural: the bass is way too strong and too voluminous (maybe not good for metal). I still ask myself where the Sony takes the bass from. Also, much unlike the Sennheiser, it does not require much power which means you can even use it with your iPod. Aside from the unnatural bass response the rest is very good. Room response is very good, middle area and high frequencies are relatively balanced. Sadly this headphone can´t decide what it wants to be: a headphone for home use or a headphone for outdoor use. For outdoor use it is simply too big, for home use the cable is too short. But anyway, it is so much fun...

But I agree with most of the comments: try these headphones out for yourself. We can talk as much as we want and we can throw our experiences together with some measurments at you but this can´t replace your personal opinion.

P.S.: if you listen to some headphones, go for the ones that sound at the first moments a bit "boring". It is always a hint that they are very balanced without amplifing certain areas.

@Cavaille
Do you know the Sony MDR-XB700?
The store i was today hasn't had it too. And i'm curious about it.
But i guess it will be too strong in bass like the XB500...

There are a number of closed studio headphones that I can recommend. All of them are colored to some degree. Keep in mind that some of these may not amaze you at first listen like some of the more colored audiophile headphones. But I think they all sound good. I haven't heard many in a long time so I can't offer any solid comments. I'll just list them. You have to find one that fits you.

I do think the more expensive headphones (e.g. DT880) have a clearer sound but I did spend more on those so...

1. Sony MDR-7506/V6 - a recording engineer once told me they are very accurate. I think they are well balanced.
2. Audio Technica ATH-M50 - slightly forward midrange
3. Shure 840 - bass heavy
4. AKG 240S - I thought these were nice but don't remember the sound.
5. AKG 271S/272 (already talked about by tedgo)
6. DT770 - nice "Hi-Fi" sound but the bass can get tiring.

There are others and you could play this game forever

Also, a comment on bass response. Many people find that something is "off" with headphones that are measurably "neutral" in the bass area. Some research may explain why http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/06/whol...-with_7561.html

Beyerdynamic DT880 is semi-open, but could also be a good choice.
I have only read some tests about it and it is claimed to be more neutral than 770/990, but lacks some details in high frequencies compared to 990.
Its worth testing it.

Yes, I listenend to them both and finally decided for the smaller model (XB 500). With the top-of-the-line model it is just unbearable. With loud volume however, both have a "funny" effect: they vibrate on your head when the bass gets strong. I think because of the air pressure building up inside the casing...


And now we are talking about taste I for example hate this Sony. A friend of mine bought it and I listened to it with different kinds of music and compared it to my Sennheiser. This Sony sounds to me very unbalanced. Middle and presence area is amplified (around 1.000 to 3.000 Hz) while the brilliance area is muted (starting with 10.000 Hz), the upper bass is missing but the deep bass is strong. Very good for Pop (sounds very engaging, dynamic) but horrible for classic.

The mdr-xb700 must be one of the most ugliest headphones available (except skullcandies).

Thanks for the suggestions, really appreciate it.

Thanks for your thoughts about XB700

I listened to some of the mentioned headphones yesterday

The D1001 does indeed sound pretty good and has lots of bass that doesn't seem to want to roll-off. Heh I was pretty surprised.
The SRH440 sounded like a bass tamed / bright version of the D1001, however these headphones are pretty heavy imho. But the isolation is very good.
My expectations for the HD555/595 were pretty high, but they sounded underwhelming. Bass and lower mids were ok but treble reminded me a bit of the PX 100. It lacked the clarity of the Shures and didn't feel 'right'.

Everytime I listen with the PX100 I dislike it more and more. :S

edit: Have to admit I didn't know what to go for in the first place, but now I feel completely lost, hehe. And I also feel the urge to try out in-ears.

I understand what you mean. It seems I'm not the only one disappointed about their purchase. Unnatural bass (very annoying/fatiguing), washed out treble... I guess they were meant to be a direct Porta Pro competitor - and this is about the only task they don't fail at.

Regarding the closed headphones - I have HD 380 and while they may be good for profi/monitoring use, I find their ability to separate the instruments and pick out details rather annoying for music listening. Instrument reproduction accuracy was my ultimate goal when buying headphones until I bought HD 380... I am going to buy me some consumer-class open headphones the next time.

Played around with the eq, something like that works for me (and the PX 100):



4 instead of the stock 8 dB bass boost is enough and clears up the sound immensly

Martel, have you tried crossfeeding (e.g. bs2b) with your HD380?

And does anyone have experiences with the HD25-1, comfort-wise?
Ahm and do you know if there's a difference between the HD25-1 and HD25-1 II?

The point is that you should not have to do anything of this in the first place, you only have to buy "the right" headphones (if only I knew which ones these are for me).
Both of what you proposed is not the ultimate solution since it is not always available.

Actually, I like their no-bells-and-whistles design. Given the premise of the topic (replacement for the HD650), I didn't bother mentioning the MDR-XB700. I have been meaning to report on them, as they are by far the best pair of cans I've ever bought.

The last two pairs I've owned were the HD590 and the HD555. I wanted a wide soundstage above all. Closed cans always sounded too narrow for me, while the HDs lacked bass to my taste.
I had the opportunity to try on the XB700, and I was shocked (I'm not exagerating) by how good they sounded. Before that I thought they were just ridiculously large. Yes, the bass is overwhelming (kind of the point of the product), they're everything but neutral, but I love it. The soundstage is surprisingly wide, and the big fat cushions are extremely comfortable. They sound great not just with Hip-Hop or whatever bass-heavy genre, but also with rock, pop and pretty much every genre I listen to - Supertramp never sounded better (and that's saying a lot in my book).

I think that's a pair one should try at least once if given the opportunity, no matter their tastes. I like them so much I plan on buying a second pair before they go out of stock, just to ensure I'll have a working pair in mint condition 10 years from now. At 99 euros, they're quite affordable.

I don't think the HD555 lacks bass, was fine when I listened to it.

Don't like the XB700's fat cushions at all. Regardless of the looks, I'm looking for something more balanced/neutral without "extra bass".

A few years ago I would work for hours at a time wearing them. Your ears do get rather warm and they do become a little uncomfortable (not so much I'd remove them) but they have a sound I enjoy very much. Excellent bass response. I also have the HD600's, SE530's and ER4i's. They all sound very different yet I can still enjoy both Sennheiser's and the Shure's. The Ety's I don't rate so much.

I own the AKG 601, and must recommend that you give it a listen. I think it sounds absolutely great. It is somewhat lean in the bass area, but that can easily be remedied by EQing the lower frequencies - resulting in very accomplished headphones that works for almost any music including rock and commercial music

Hehe yeah, it's not easy for me either.

Well that EQ setting really is just a workaround, but it works!

And we really need foobar on the portable audio player!

Thank you for the suggestions.