How do you backup your MP3 collection using CD-R?

Just burn them as u would any other file on a data CD.

And what about long file names? The CD-ROM file system trouncate them.

Yea, you can't have too-long file names, or more then I think 8 directories deep. Nero will warn you if this is that case, however.

If I zip the MP3 files are there any problems? Can I loose any data?

I zip my files when I archive them to CD. I don't use any compression and I always make the zip, test the zip, write the zip, read the zip from the CD, then test the zip again to make sure that everything was written correctly. Zipping is probably the easist way to backup data with long filenames to a CD with a "standard" filesystem, but since you lose the ability to read your music directly this is certainly an archive solution, and not a solution that will work for a hardware mp3 player. The other disadvantage to zipping together files is that if your CD becomes damaged or corrupted, you could lose the zip and every file inside it instead of just losing one or two mp3s. If you search around on these forums you'll probably find quite a few examples of how people work around the long filename and damaged CD problems.

But I can zip one album or one artist in every zip file to reduce the risk of losing all the data. Thx.

Personally, I wouldn't use .zip. I'd use .rar instead, as Winrar has a 'recovery option' which has saved me more than enough times. You need to set the size of the recovery record when you compress it which will make the files bigger (up to 10%, depending on how big you set it) but it is well worth it. As far as I know, you can't repair zip files.

If you use straight UDF (preferred) or UDF/ISO in Nero, ECDC, and Stomp RNM and clear the Joliet compatibility checkbox then you can have > 128 char filename capability. To read the disk on W2k and older OS's you have to install the UDF Reader driver available at the Adaptec and Ahead sites. Portables such as an iRiver 350 & 400 have NO problem reading UDF disks. I believe UDF support is built into XP, Linux, and OS X. Straight UDF has none of the restrictions that the normal CD-ROM FS imposes.

xen-uno

edit: also...the UDF filesystem is more fault tolerant than the CD-ROM FS. Mt Ranier UDF is MUCH more fault tolerant than either UDF or CD-ROM (whichever book applies...red, orange, blue, or pea green)

Using zip or rar is ridicules especially for mp3, you lose all hardware compatibility.

I use Roxio Easy CD Creator (with UDF) I tried NTI Cd Maker but I found It would burn with errors @ the end of the CD-R when checking the CD-R with Nero CD Speed.

Aha, I tried to do this (making an UDF-only formatted disc) with Nero in Win2k. But if I understand correctly, that's not quite possible?

Thanks guys. But I have another simple question: How can I show the flag?

I'm having trouble with this. Using Nero 5.5.10.0, I choose to make a new UDF disc, and Nero still italicizes all >64-character filenames that I add to the project, and is kind enough to truncate the file extension if I try to rename these files. (Which, BTW, is an idiotic Nero "feature" that has blemished many CD's for me. Is it that hard to keep the extension intact and truncate the rest of the name?). I can tell it in the Properties window not to check for Joliet compatibility before burning, which seems to keep Nero from complaing when I click "Burn", but I haven't actually tried burning anything this way... is it safe?

Do you mean the flag under your name on the left-hand side of the post? Simple: click the My Controls link at the top of the page, then the "Edit Profile info" link on the left-hand side. You can choose your flag with the drop-down box at the top of the form.

[ Back to original question ]

Do you want to use your CD-Rs in an MP3/DVD player? If yes, you'll have to accept the truncated filenames (which can be restored easily from the tag on condition your MP3s have been tagged). As mentioned by other people, you can use another filesystem (UDF or romeo or whatever) but beware for compatibility!!

If you just want to archive (just store, without needing it for playback), go with Winrar (any version newer than 3.00) or winace, and it is a good idea to use the 'add recovery record' option (e.g. 10%) to protect your files against degradation...


(or you use the recovery option, then you might lose nothing even if the disk gets damaged)

Yes, my aim is just store without playing it back. I prefer to listen to my collection with my computer or write files on CD-RW (I listen to music on my Philips Expanium 101, the first mp3 portable player Philips released about 3 years ago when I go to the Univerity by underground)...Thank you very much.

OK...my iRiver 350 won't read straight UDF disks, but will read UDF/ISO disks as produced by Nero (which is probably what ECDC and Stomp creates, when you select UDF and ISO is not mentioned).

In Nero (5.5.10.15a)...
1) Create new UDF/ISO project
2) In the ISO tab check Level 2, Mode 2/XA, ASCII char set, clear the Joliet box, and check all the Relax ISO Restrictions
3) In the UDF tab, select Physical Partition and Filesystem ver of 1.5 or 2.01

Try the above on an RW disk, you'll see it works fine.

Patsoe > Aha, I tried to do this (making an UDF-only formatted disc) with Nero in Win2k. But if I understand correctly, that's not quite possible?

Sure it's possible...I haven't had made a disk yet using any Nero option that W2k couldn't read (you MUST have the UDFReader installed, though)

SometimesW.. > Using Nero 5.5.10.0, I choose to make a new UDF disc, and Nero still italicizes all >64-character filenames that I add to the project, and is kind enough to truncate the file extension if I try to rename these files.

I haven't figured out why Nero italicizes in the first place (yes I have, it's a visual clue file name is too long...won't happen with the above). If you use the procedure above there will be NO truncation. Yes...it is safe.

liekloo > Do you want to use your CD-Rs in an MP3/DVD player? If yes, you'll have to accept the truncated filenames (which can be restored easily from the tag on condition your MP3s have been tagged)

Maybe...maybe not (with UDF). Generally speaking...if the player says it can read CD-RW's, then there's a good chance it can read UDF disks. Only way to know for sure is to try it.***

xen-uno

***edit: In Nero, under the UDF tab, there is an option to Force DVD-Video Compatibilty Mode which may make disks readable to a DVD player (as well as X-box)...while still preserving LFN's (haven't tested this, though)

My first MP3-CD player was the MPTrip, which can only read ISO9660 (no joliet!) CD's properly. So I got in the habit of making all my MP3's with DOS filenames, and creating an index text file for a CD I would burn. Though I don't need to for my RioVolt SP-250, I still keep in the habit, since it doesn't hurt compatibility.

Does anyone know if there are some kind of errors that can be corrected by RAR's error recovery record better than others?

I mean - how many random errors (or what average percentage of randomly spread corrupted bits) does it take (e.g. if there's 10% error recovery data) until the archive is not completely restorable anymore? And what would it be like if you cut off the beginning or end of the file - How much of this treatment will be tolerated?

I ask this because in my experience CD-Rs get bad from outside to inside (if not due to mechanical damage).

So another question derived from this: Is there something better than RAR for CD-R backup, specialized to resist end-of-archive-cutoff?

I use Nero:
-No Multisession
-Disc at Once
-Close CD
-Joliet
-Iso Level 2
-Mode 1

For the Rar question, why compress using rar or zip? The save of space it's very little (few kb) and if the zip is damaged you'll lose the entire file.
Without zip even if the file is damaged you'll be able to play and save the file, you'll just hear a crackle or a little noise where the file is damaged..

And for the CD-Rs that get ruined from the outside to inside, I have the same problem on some cds (checking the cd with Nero CD-Speed shows errors mainly at the end of the disc); the solution could be to not use all the space (for example if the cd-r is 700MB I use 670-680 MB).

For me the point about using RAR is not compression - I use it without any compression if I create archives containing mp3 files or other compressed media data. The point is error recovery (and file name length - but less important). For me it'd be a waste of time (or I'm just too lazy ) to check my backup CDs (containing music among others) regularly (how often is this necessary to have security - 2 times a year? It'll be painful to find out that half a year had not been enough. ) and copy to new CD-Rs if the first signs of corruption show up. Double backups using different brands? Still regular checks needed.

My wishful thinking about adding error recovery data is that you have to check < 1x a year and/or find out while using that somethinng has become corrupt - than you just use something like badcopy to copy the archive to HDD, restore it and burn to a new CD-R...

I still use the old win98 because I found a methode to backup the entire HDD.
And I do this with "ARJ" and a file called "DOSLFNBK".
The last program is reading in DOS mode the longfilenames and put this in a file.
Then I include this file in the backup of the HDD.

When restoring ,I do it the other way back.
So I think it is possible to do this also with mp3 files.
Make with "DOSLFNBK" a files with the longfilenames and put this on the same CDROM with the mp3's.
Later when you copy the mp3's back to HDD then you can restore the longfilenames.

ciottano:

Just a small hint by the by: Burn To The Brim is a nifty tool that will work out a combination of files and/or directories to fill all CD-Rs as much as possible - very useful for making backups of music collections. Then use DIR /B to create a folder list that you can post into an MS Word template to print CD covers, and you're done.

Xenno: thanks for the instructions--with your help, I finally figured it out. It appears that, as long as I choose UDF/ISO and uncheck the Joliet box, Nero stops complaining about >64-character filenames; all the other settings can be left at default. I will test with a CD-RW this evening.

Also, regarding WinRAR: you can either add a recovery record to every archive, or you can make "recovery archives" of some sort. How this second option works: if you make a multi-part archive of, say, 20 parts, then create three recovery archives. Now you can lose any three files of the original archive and replace them with the backup archives. I guess they're some sort of parity file. The backup archives are the same size as the parts of the original archive, so it's like your 20-part archive suddenly became 23 parts, but you can lose any three parts and your data will still be safe. However, if you make a big scratch from the inside to the outside of the CD and damage every archive, then this technique probably won't help so much. Maybe you can use a combination of individual recovery records and recovery archives...

Volcano:

I was trying to use Burn To The Brim some months ago but I was unable to undertand how it works...I'll download it and try another time.

In the and to backup my collection of MP3 I'll use WinRAR, without compressing files. Bye, Ciottano.

Could you have a look to my another post regarding a CD writer hardware problem?

Here the link:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....ST&f=20&t=7495&

ciottano:

You can check out Stomp Record Now Max 4.5 to get the long filenames on CD... It can burn ISO Level 2 Long which is up to 212 char. No Problems here reading these disks with Win2k and on my DVD Player (SEG San Diego)

Ciao ZYron

@Tigre, since I've got most of my CDRs dying, I can tell you that checking them once a year won't do.
I checked one (audio) burned in 2000, in may 2002, EAC read full speed and without any C2 error.
In august, I wanted to listen to it, but it was all crackling. Even with my best drive, there was nothing to do to recover errors.

About the extra error corection in CD ROM, it doesn't make much difference, the CDR turns unreadable very fast, be them audio or ROM.

Now that I'm compressing audio, I too wondered how to archive it.
Since CDR dies, as well as tapes and hard drives, I gave up long term storage and searched for solutions like we use at work : daily backup of all the hard drive or a DDS tape, with one tape per day of the week. This way we permanently have 7 backups less than one week old at hand.
But DDS is expensive : 1000 € for the drive (SCSI only), 20 € for the tape (40 GB).

RAID have been discussed here already : protects against hard drive failure, but not against accidental erasure, accidents, power surge, or especially viruses.

So I looked after DVD RW burning : big enough to make monthly backups, and stored safely outside the computer.

But when I saw that external hard drives were cheaper than DVD burners, I just went for an external USB 2 40 GB hard drive.
I just plugged it yesterday and am very happy : as fast as an internal one, no drivers to install (with WinXP), no need to format, nor even to reboot : plug the power cord on one side and the USB on the other side, and a 40 GB new drive appears instantly in the explorer . I think I can fit about 450 MPC albums in it.

Of course, I'll have to redo all the backup regularly, to check that it works well. I think I should find a CRC utility...

I think, Xenno's way to backup on CD is the optimal one. I was always angry, when I lost some part of the filenames of long MPC's (or APE's). By the way: Nero DOES save the extensions (at least the recent versions). Compatibility is not the most important thing, when you just try to archive something. The way, Xenno described works also for burning on DVD (which I do right now as a test). If I write on a DVD in pure ISO or UDF-format does not play any role, because the files on it can´t be read by any stand-alone player. A good method to recover the cut of filenames is, to let the names reconstruct by the proggy TAG from the APE-tags. But sometimes happened errors, when a tag was missing. Until now, I was not able to burn my Single-CD-collections on DVD, as the filenames of some pieces were often equal up to all 64 chars then (including directory-names). Now with this UDF-format and the modifyings in the settings of Nero I will be able to do it. Thx again!

- R.A.F. -

Xenno... I'm having a hard time with really long filenames that when they get truncated, all end up with the very same file name. I'm trying to maintain my file name convention of <Artist> - <CD Title> - <Track No.> - <Track Title> ... But on many classical CDs, there are more than 64 characters before the <Track No.> and <Track Title>. But even with the settings yo've suggested, Nero then chokes, and reports that the files don't have, "a unique Joliet name." This with files that are shorter than 128 characters.

I was experimenting with making a batch file that could use DOSLFNBK.EXE to backup long file names. The idea was to include the batch file in each folder burned to the CD. DOSLFNBK is supposed to include a /o switch to rename the files, but I've yet to get it to work

Shel

I might add that I don't know how to check to see if I have UDF support... but I just installed XP-Pro... so I'd think it'd be there.

Shel

so probably the cheapest backup solution would be to add a new 5400 rpm hd drive and copy the tracks one is afraid of loosing onto it?
(iam sure hd will live much longer than average cd or dvd even maybe, what about cd vs dvd storage life btw, is it to be expected that burned dvds wont last very long as well?)

If you use windows, this is by far the easiest backup method:

http://www.ntibackupnow.com/

works like professional backup software only with CD-R and DVD+|-R........

I'm having the exact same problem, using Xenno's formula here:



This does not work for me... Nero (5.5.10.20) truncates the files to 64 characters using that formula, and every variation I could think of... as a matter of fact, the only way to get 64 is to either check Joliet, or check "Force DVD-Video compatibility mode". Otherwise, it appears to default to the ISO spec (8+3). I'm using Windows 2000, Service Pack 3. Also, installing the Adaptec UDF Reader, found here, had no noticable effect.

Once I said, that Xenno's method works for me. That was simply wrong. - At first sight it did. Nero did not show cutting filenames after the 63rd char while burning. But after (test-)burning I had to notice, that it still did, even if it wasn´t listed anymore before starting the burning-process. So, this UDF-method also doesn´t fix the problem with filenames longer than 63 characters. Meanwhile I tend to the opinion, that there´s a bug in "Nero Burning Rom", as it normally really should be able to write filenames up to 128 chars in UDF-mode.

And what about BAO, this software allow name files up to 207 characters (ISO 9660-1999).

[QUOTE]
Long Joliet and ISO9660:1999: As well as supporting 103 Joliet character filenames burnatonce now implements ISO9660:1999 which allows 207 characters for folder/filenames and removes the limit upon how many levels deep the folders are are allowed to be. The current mkisofs code allows all ASCII characters (including lowercase) but this may change in the future.

Someone had tryied this program to backup mp3 or mpc?
Does works with DVD-mp3 Players?

@honz:

The link you gave to ntibackupnow seems to be broken.

EDIT: Never mind, the link is working now.

That's cool... but as far as I know, those aren't within Joliet or ISO specifications, and could have compatibility problems with certain players.

From This guide: Sony CD Extreme burns up to 212 characters. I installed it a while back but didn't need it until today. I just burned my 1st CD with it. Nothing to complain so far.

Some of the options from Recording Options -> File System Type menu:

ISO Level 2 long worked here.

The max number of characters for ISO Level 2, according to spec., should only be 32. And for Joliet, only 64.

I use the ROMEO format, can store filenames up to 128 characters. plenty of space for Artist - album - songtitle.xxx, as a filename,
or Rockridge under unix for long filenames.

"Sony CD Extreme" and "Burn At Once", nice and good - but where is the future, I mean the DVD-support?!

In conclusion, let me ask this... what CD burning programs can correctly burn UDF discs with up to 127 characters? I'm not sure if Nero has a bug, or is just not properly configured. thanks!

I´m quite sure Nero has a bug, ´cause I tried with all possible variations of UDF-burning. And Nero showed before and while burning that everything is okay with the letters, and after I had to notice, that it trunctated all above 63 (or 64?) characters.

It worked great on 5.5.10.15a. It is now broke under 5.5.10.20. Some setting HAS to work. Will test.

xen-uno

edit: Stomp (or Veritas) RNM handles much longer filenames than Nero will (especially now). Perfectly compatible when I was using the trial version.

ISO9660:1999 is an ISO standard - hence it's rather obvious name!

Jamie

I have started another post here describing the problems I've had using Nero to burn UDF discs with filenames greater than 64 characters...