My grandparents downsized their home stereo setup, and so I ended up with their turntable and a preamp. It's a Sony PS-T22 direct-drive turntable with what may be the original cartridge in it, a Sony ND-5G.

I also ended up with a Recoton SP-2 preamp. (It has an external power brick. It looks exactly like the TCC TC-400G/L phono preamp at phonopreamps.com without the ground knob on it, and obviously with different silkscreening.)

What I'm looking to do is pick up cheap vinyl and rip to flac to expand my music library to pre-cd material, as well as things I don't want to pay CD price for.
I haven't found much info on the performance of what I have that means anything real. Before I ended up with the hand-me-down table, I was considering springing for a Technics SL-1200.

So what I want to know is, how bad is this setup vs something nicer? Am I actually in decent shape and I should just find a better cart or a new needle for this one? Or a better preamp? Do I just need to do some setup on it? It looks like there's an anti-skate knob and a movable tonearm counterweight that I haven't touched.

If it was me, I'd work with what you've got... You can upgrade all of your equipment and you've still 20-40 year old got analog vinyl, which is nowhere near "CD quality". (I know some people love the sound of vinyl, but I am not one of them! The "snap", "crackle", and "pop" drives me nuts! )

I'd say the most important part of vinyl transfer is the "clean-up". I use Wave Repair to remove clicks & pops. It doesn an amazing job with most defects, but I typically spend a full day or a full weekend with Wave Repair in the manual mode cleaning-up an LP transfer.... And, I still don't quite get CD quality. You can find lots of helpful information and software recommendations at here.

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I don't know anything about your particular equipment...

The fact that the turntable is direct drive means that it was not "bottom of the line". As long as the speed is constant and you're not hearing "rumble" I'd say it's "good enough".

In order to make tonearm adjustments, you need to know the recommended tracking force for the cartridge. Usually, you "zero" the arm by making it balance and then set the indicator to "zero". Then you set tracking force, and you set anti-skating to match tracking force. In the old days, I would try to minimize tracking force in order to minimize wear. Now I don't worry about it, since I'm just going to play the record once or twice to digitize it.

Sony was not known for their cartridges. I'm not saying they were bad, but they never had the reputation of some other manufacturers. This may be the "weak link" in your system, and changing the cartridge would probably make the biggest difference in sound (mostly due to frequency response variations), but I can't say if a different cartridge would make the sound better or worse... And, you can always tweak the frequency response with EQ. (A lot of older records have a weak high-end, and I frequently boost the highs on vinyl transfers even though I have a pretty good cartridge.)

It's hard to say if a new stylus (needle) would make a difference... It could make a difference even if the diamond isn't worn. There are usually elastomer parts in the stylus suspension and they may have "dried out" and hardened. If you think the sound is "terrible", consider replacing the cartridge or stylus.

All preamps will add some noise, and there is potential for frequency response variations here too. But, the frequency resonse variations should be less than the cartridge variations. I wouldn't worry about the preamp unless you feel the hum & hiss are excessive.

It can actually be just as bad for the record if you set the tracking too low as too high. It is important that the needle stay in contact with the record during loud passages.

Right! Stay within the manufacturer's recommended range. If you hear tracking distortion, increase the force (without exceeding the recomended maximum).

The better cartridges tend to be rated for lighter tracking. Cheaper cartridges and DJ cartridges are rated for more force.

So, I haven't found a manual for this table anywhere. Should I assume that tracking force is controlled by the position of the counterweight on the tonearm? And anti-skate is the black knob on the table near where the tonearm attaches?
I suppose I'll pick up a digital scale for tracking force, I have beermaking needs that I've wanted a gram-accuracy scale for anyhow. If I'm reading the stuff on HA right, I need to pick up a test record to adjust anti-skate?

If you don't change the cartridge, there is probably no need to mess with the adjustments...

That seems like a good assumption. Usually it's threaded and you move it by turning it... And, usually it's marked so you wouldn't need a scale/balance.

That's a reasonable assumption too. Is that knob marked with numbers?

You can confirm both of these adjustments by noting/marking the current settings and playing with the settings. The tracking force changes should be easy to feel (if you can adjust it to zero it will be obvious), or you can observe the changes in stylus deflection.

You can probably also confirm anti-skating changes by observing side-to-side sylus deflection, or if (mis)adjusting that knob causes the stylus to jump out of the groove, you've confirmed it's the anti-skate control! (Hopefully, you have a junk record for that test...)

I don't know what's requred for beer, but for the turntable you need fractional gram accuracy. (+/- 1 gram is not accurate enough.)

IMHO that's easily a good enough table. Especially as low cost music seems to be one of your goals.

The black knob beside the tonearm is the anit-skate and is numbered.

The tracking force is the adjustable weight on the end of the tonearm and is also numbered.

Replace the needle if you have no idea of the mileage; consider replacing the cartridge too as often a new cartridge (with a needle) will only be slightly more expensive than a needle alone. I use and like the budget Audio Technica cartridges.

The tonearm uses 1/2" mount cartridges and is straight so I'd guess it's a lower mass arm which fits with the era (1981).

Most of my vinyl transfers were all done on a bottom of the range Pioneer belt drive from the mid-80s and I'm more than happy with the results.

Note also that 2nd hand vinyl is often in poor condition so a good wash and clean, and some automatic declicking (I use CoolEdit declicking's medium amplitude audio setting) is pretty much compulsory.

EDIT: I would add that once you have digitized a record it then frees you up to enjoy playing your record without concern about preserving the condition of the vinyl.

Oh, I missed that. Indeed it is!

I'll go pick some junk records at goodwill or something and play with them a bit. I didn't realize that I should be looking at the stylus more.


I misspoke. Should have said .1g accuracy. I see you can buy .01g accuracy scales too.

I still am thinking it might be a good idea to get a different cartridge, or at least a new needle. Unfortunately, finding information about what is actually DIFFERENT on a cart is hard, and there's few sources to trust outside of HA. Is there a substantial difference between $25, $50, and $150 carts?

I think so, but it's been more than 20 years since I last bought a phono cartridge... Whenever I used to "upgrade", I always thought that the sound improved.

My gut feeling is that the "sweet-spot" is $70 - $100. You can get the top-of-the-line Shure M97xE for about $100, so personally I wouldn't spend any more than that. A botton-of-the-line Grado (starting about $60) is probably also "good enough". I've owned a Grado, and my current cartridge is similar to the Shure M97 (I don't remember the model number but it has the similar built-in stabilizer/brush).

I think the biggest difference in sound is frequency response. It seems like the better cartridges had "better highs". But really, I only had a few records that had good, clean sounding, high frequencies. And as I mentioned before, if the high frequencies are weak (due to the recording or the cartridge) you can always tweak the digital recordings with EQ. You're probably going to do some digital processing anyway, and it's no big deal to use some EQ while you're at it.

One clue to quality is the recommended tracking force. If the cartridge is rated for 3 grams or more, it's probably lower-quality. (And, I assume "DJ" cartridges are designed for ruggedness over sound quality.)

There's an eBay auction for a replacement stylus that fits that cart and a whole bunch of others: AUDIO TECHNICA, AIWA, AKAI, SANYO, GARRARD, MARANTZ, ONKYO, PANASONIC, and RADIO SHACK. So, I'd suspect this cartridge was made for Sony, probably by Audio Technica and that it is of merely adequate quality. It is a diamond stylus, but conical, not elliptical.

On the other hand, unless your grandparents were rabid music lovers with a library of LPs, the stylus may not have many hours on it. And maybe the quality is good enough for your purposes. A local dealer in vintage vinyl and turntables may still have a stylus microscope that you can use to check it out. Dealers like that may also have some new-old-stock, or old cartridges with new styluses to sell.

After selling and working with turntables several years, I say always run at the maximum manufacturers recommended value. If they say 3/4 to 1.5, run it at 1.5. By the time you hear the distortion, the damage is already done.

G²

After some messing around with the tracking force, I think I have it to some semblance of okay without changing the cart, but sometimes I still feel like the high end is being limited.

I grabbed a carbon fiber brush at the used record store. That seems to help a bit here and there, hard to tell. Sure is a lot of dust in some of these.

Styx and Steely Dan are still popping on the parts that seem to have a lot of sound energy in them.

So, I'm ready to spend the money on a cart. But I can't find any semblance of specifications on them, other than channel separation and tracking force, and shape, which seems... lacking.
Is the Shure M97 XE the way to go? Seems reasonable, sub 1-gram tracking force at the low end and elliptical, seems to sell for around or less than $100.

Is that significantly better than a Audio-Technica CN5625AL? Those seem to go for $25, though they're conical and track 1.5-3g?

Or, for those that recommended Grado, I assume the recommendation was for a Grado Black, around $60 or so? (or "green" which seems to be the exact same cartridge but "is the top 15% of the production run.")

Delving into vinyl at all has shown me that yes, you apparently can sell anything to anyone at any price. Some people need a shot of HA to their brain.

If your LPs are very dirty, and if you have a lot of them, you might want to think about getting a vacuum record cleaning machine (eg. VPI, Nitty Gritty, Moth, etc). Having properly clean records is a very important part of getting good playback.


Sounds like you might be having mistracking problems. And that is VERY bad news. Mistracking is the quickest way to destroy vinyl records - the stylus loses contact with the groove wall and bounces around uncontrollably, gouging at the groove walls as it does so. Stop playing your LPs with this cartridge to avoid further damage.


Tracking force per se is not really that significant. Some of the best cartridges around track somewhere between 1.5-2g. That said, a cartridge with a top-end tracking force up at 3g is probably not that great - more likely to be a DJ type built for ruggedness rather than best sound quality.

Regarding stylus shape, it's generally a good idea to get an elliptical rather than conical stylus, as it is better able to accurately follow the groove wall at high frequencies.

Clive is probably right, it's probably mistracking (Clive is more of an expert than me). But, there are a couple of other possibilities... The record could already be damaged, or it may have had poor quality to begin with. It's my impression that the Steely Dan recordings were exceptionally "clean" for the era, so I don't think it's a poor quality recording or a poor quality pressing. (I never owned any Steely Dan records, but they sounded good on FM.) I'm not sure about Styx.

That kind of distortion is generally impossible to clean-up digitally (unlike most ticks & pops which can often be removed.)

If you want "CD quality", I really recommend that you buy the CD! (if it's available) I have "limited funds", but my vinyl collection was never that big and over a period of years I've been able to upgrade most of my vinyl to CD. (Sometimes, I'll buy a "greatest hits" CD instead of the same-exact album.)

I do have some material that's not available on CD, and I've digitized several vinyl recordings. When the vinyl is in good shape, the results can be good, but usually the real CD is better...

I mentioned Shure & Grado because I've owned them both and they have good reputations. But like I said, I haven't purchased a cartridge in over 20 years and I don't know enough to make any specific recomendations.

I thought that the biggest difference between cartridges would be frequency response (which you can "fix" with equalization). But, now that mistracking has come up, I dunno... I thought mistracking was generally not an issue at the recommended tracking force... I remember that the hi-fi magazines had a few "difficult" records that they would use to check for mistracking (in addition to test records) like maybe a particular recording of The 1812 Overture (cannon shots).

I have a lot of experience with vinyl (going back to the 1970's), but I would never claim to be a bona-fide *expert*.

Doug is correct that the distortion could be existing damage - and if it is, it was most probably caused by mistracking on a previous turntable. But until you can verify that the PS-T22 is not currently mistracking, it is not safe to play vinyl records on it.

Like Doug, I have no knowledge of Styx. Steely Dan recordings have always been very good, but whether any particular pressing will be good is another matter. But in my experience, even poor quality pressings don't typically exhibit the kind of distortion we're talking about here: rather they tend to be dull and/or "grainy/fuzzy".


Mistracking can be caused by a number of factors:
- insufficient tracking force
- incorrect anti-skating force
- geometric misalignment of the cartridge
- poor quality pickup arm bearings
- degraded stylus suspension
- worn/damaged stylus
- and probably some more that escape me for now

So just setting the tracking force to the maximum is no guarantee that you'll avoid mistracking.

I've got over 10,000 records, and a decent turntable - and I'd choose Spotify over what you propose any day!

But if you're looking for a fun hobby, it's great. Just remember the biggest investment is your time and effort.


I'd start with a new stylus and cartridge - but then I might consider a different (not new) turntable too.

Looking at eBay there don't seem to be that many decent cheap turntables around - there's a lot of cheaper rubbish, but that could be far worse than what you've got. I was lucky - I picked up what turned out to be a decent turntable for £20 a few years ago.

You can't go far wrong with the known budget classics, e.g.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=130337735993
(nothing to do with me - just saw it when I searched for turntable just now).

...but I would always budget to replace the stylus and cartridge.

Cheers,
David.