Month-long , private-investigator-style exhaustive background check?
A condom would be enough... ;o)



Good link.World population will be freaking old by 2050.
The differences between South America and Europe are huge right now.Here , there are many more young people (uneducated , marginal couples having 10 kids each) than old people (medication is very expensive , old peolple get lousy payment (if they are lucky) , hence we die younger).
Look at Brazil's or Argentina's chart.......scary.Population growing like hell.We don't have density problems (countries with large territories) but poverty and many social problems are alarmingly increasing.

Over 170 million people live in Brazil , about 1.5 million are 80 or older (0.9%).
In Sweden (around 8.9 million people) , there are roughly 475.000 people in their 80's or older (5.3%).

Good old Europe

Edit: sloppy english

Well, I am Christian, which means sex within marriage, anti-homosexual (Sorry Madi). That doesn't mean I am heartless when it comes to such issues. Look, the context of my argument comes against SARS, simply because it is so much easier to prevent the spread of AIDS than SARS. Do you want to compare the demographics of AIDS against that of SARS? I will not be surprised if you find trends for AIDS.
BTW, AIDS spread to the Western world because of a few sexually promiscuous males. It didn't even matter if they were hetero- or homo-.
I don't want to go off-topic, because this thread is about SARS. If you want to know more you can search Google for the history of AIDS.
I don't want to invite flames, I just want to state my point of view, which I am sure is backed up with facts.

The interesting things about us humans is that, when it comes to social issues, we display our selfishness damn easily.

I thought Mac's post was quite amusing.

Heaven17: Where do you live? Let's say for an example, that you live in Montana. Would you also find Montana do be an unimportant area then?

Sld: Heh - the earth is flat, I was told so a thousand years back, so better not trip to Africa, or we are going off topic. How fortunate some intelligent beings came by and proved it wrong. Amazing theism still exist.

OK, that might have been a bit uncalled for, but perhaps it would inspire you to wake up, and realize that religion is a mindmanipulating drug, and drugs are bad, mmmkay.

Hmmm... sex spread in the western world because of males - do you mean homo males? AFAIK AIDS origins in the 3rd world, maybe Africa. I'm not sure. The interesting thing about Africa is, there are officially no homosexuals down there, nobody wants to be homo in Africa. And why is that? Well, if the government doesn't execute them, by chopping off their heads, they'll probably just give them 10 years of prison to "straighten up". Of course, AIDS could also be caused by straight males, getting cozy with a new woman each day. I don't know.

"The interesting things about us humans is that, when it comes to social issues, we display our selfishness damn easily."

I agree. Nature is hard to supress.

Is Adolf Hitler reborn? :'(

no, just your average angry teenager.

*sigh* atheists can be very ignorant.
The earth is not flat according to the bible
It is just used by evolutionists to attack the bible.

The concept of a flat earth came from greek philosophy, which the roman catholic church endorsed and since
they consider church doctrine to be equal to the word of God ofcourse they ran into problems.
Luckily there are many church reformer's (even within the catholic church) who try to put the bible first.
May God bless their work.

Hitler was just thinking like you, help evolution a hand by eliminating the weak.
Darwin put negro's and gorilla's between the white man and the baboon on the evolutionary ladder.



I find it more amazing atheism can exsist.
Atheism is as much religion as the other theism's. It's just that your God is man and his word is science, as in man'sinterpretation of the things around him.
Atheists can get very religious, as in trying to ban the bible and prayer out of schools, so that we follow their religion.
How is this diffrent than me, a christian, not accepting the qu'ran or the evolution theory in my house?
Most atheists don't understand how evolution supposedly works, but blindly trust their religious leaders (scientists).
You, like many atheists, say "religion is a mindmanipulating drug" , and so I say of atheism.

That quote of yours is enough to prove you are religious.



No he means simply males.
Most males (be they hetero or homo) try to get laid as much as possible by as many diffrent people possible.
(I, as a christian, don't believe in sex outside of wedlock, but most people (even christians) don't believe that).
And that has caused the spread of AID's.
Most women on the otherhand would rather have sex with someone they have a good relationship with.
But seeing as the males usually want sex, sex, sex they give in, afterall they don't want to be alone.
So yes the spread of AID's is mostly the fault of men.

And homosexuality in most non-western countries is frouned upon by the society.
So while most governments don't actively discriminate homo's, societies do.
So if you wanna go to the african countries and stand up for gay people, be my guest.
I see it as an abomination, but I will not actively pursue homo's.
Yes societies shouldn't discriminate, but I have other causes which have a greater
priorities to support.
God shall judge you for your sins, not I, but I may tell you that homosexuality and not minding that your elders
die to disease is sin. But even if you would not commit these sins, you are still a sinner.
Only thru Jesus are we forgiven our sins.

enough of this though

You obviously still haven't read my post. It's not a "kill the seniors" thread, it's a "what if" thread.
A friend of mine is in a wheelchair. He does know he's an expense to society. But he also knows that I like him, and I don't blame him - it's not his fault that he broke his back. It's not the elderlys fault that they get old either. I'm just pointing out, Denmark has a problem, SARS could cure it. I'm not saying SARS should cure it, I'm saying it could cure it. And I'm beginning to doubt that theory, since several people in this thread says that an outbreak would costs gazillions to cure and control. Adolf Hitler intentionally murdered millions of jews, for no purpose. Jews aren't even weak, so not only does it seem incredibly cruel and inhuman to me, it also seems completely pointless.

Atheism is not a religion. Religion is believing in a god, the supernatural or something. When atheists gets "religious" it's usually because they're tired of listening to worms saying "my book says that you are a sinner". It does not matter what a book says, especially not a book without any evidence within it. What matters is what you think. And as long as certain subjects, f.x. homosexuality is decided by your book and not yourself, it's impossible to hope for tolerance. A book does not understand when you tell it, it's wrong. But it doesn't matter what the book says, if the religius world would just wake up from their sleep of belief.

But let me ask you. Have I really sinned? Is this something you tell me, or something your vaporware of a god claims?

FYI, I can tell you that the number of atheists are raising steadily worldwide. I was originally born christian, but quit the church, as soon as I turned 18. Now I don't have to pay 1% of my income in church-tax to pointless preaching.
Heheh - that's soo very nice.

But I do admire you and your faith. It's a very strong faith you have. I would really like to have such a faith. Then I could just disable my brain completely, turn a page and read some lines when I'm confronted with a subject and have to take a stand. "Ohh, my book say so. I'm afraid it's no."

Yeah. That's so damn obvious to notice.

The governments DO discriminate homosexuals.
Society do as well. Why? Probably many reasons, a main reason would be because their religion tells them to. In your case, this is the reason. Well, it's easy to go to Africa and speak up. The problem is, it's a one time speech, cause it will put me in 10 years of jail, or even execute me.
Have a look at : http://www.sodomy.org/laws/
Or perhaps at the male/male column here : http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

I'm grateful, that I wasn't born 50 or 100 years ago though. A big thanks to all the people who have worked for sexual liberation.

Not so.
Society has homophobia.
And then they use religion as an excuse.
Any person who knows just little of what the bible teaches will say that homosexuality is wrong in God's eyes.
But it also cearly teaches that chritians aren't to impose holiness on sinners.
Christians are to spread the word, not to force it on others.
The individual is to accept it or not .
And in the end God shall judge them.

However because society doesn't like homosexuality and because people like to judge others they like to forget the second part.
And governments reflect what society thinks.
If you repeal those laws you will have accomplished nothing unless you convince the population
to not be judgemental about homosexuality.
Those US laws are hardly (I suspect never) enforced, it just takes time to repeal exsisting laws and
most people could care less about laws not affecting themselves and thus won't take action to repeal them.

The reason why fornicators/adultresses/homo's get stoned in some countries is not because it's legal.
But because society wants to stone them.
And society uses religion as an excuse, and governments try to please society.
I don't know much about the Qu'ran, but the bible clearly stated we are not to stone sinners.
("Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "For all have sinned")

I have read your thread and it's bascially "I wouldn't mind if my elders would die of SARS".

Adolf Hitler also gassed handicapped people.
And of Jews he said that they were the reason Germany was poor, they were white negro's and inferior (well he said everyone except the aryans were inferior) and that is why he gassed Jews, Gipsies, Blacks and other races.

Yes you have sinned and I am telling you that now.
And you may choose to ignore me, fine.
But I believe that one day you will be judged, and God almighty willsay to you "Have I not told you of your sins thru my servants?" and you will have nothing to say.
And I too will be there one day and God will say "Have I not told you of your sins thru my word?" and I too will have noting too say, but Jesus will speak for me and save me from damnation.
Untill that day you have a choice, and I am telling you that now. And nobody can or should force you to choose for Jesus, it is your choice, just beware of the consequences.

Tolerance is not accpeting something, but tolerating something even if you are convinced it's wrong.
I tolerate homosexuality (heck I was almost one before I got saved).
I would shake the hand of a homosexual, and he is welcome at my dinner table.
He may come in my church and sleep at my house, if he desperatly needs money or food, he is welcome to knock on my door and I shall try to provide.
I'll gladly go to the movies with him and he may sit next to me in class.
But I will never approve of his homosexuality
Half of my family is hindu, and I have great relationships with them.
The only place were I draw the line is in worshipping their gods.
And I do not approve. However we are as tight as a family gets.

Atheism is not a religion in the sense that it believe's in a supernatural God, but it has all the other characteristics of a religion.
Including it's strong intolreance of other beliefs such as you so finely demonstrate by calling God 'vaporware'
And by implying that all theists are stupid and that we should "wake up from our beliefs".

Basically you're saying "You have to think for yourself and not follow some book".
Well I have thought for myself and I think the bible is the word of God and it's truths are amazing.
Sure not everyone likes the truth, but as far as I'm concerned it's the truth.
I was there, atheistic, almost a homo, living a sinful life.
I was addicted to porn, slacked off at school (though I still got the best grades at tests).
Thank God Jesus found me.
But I know what you're thinking, 'cause I thought it too.
You're thinking we are stupid and manipulated, that we are not free because the bible condemns so many things.
I can tell you it's not so, if you really get to know christians you will see they are very strong minded people, who know what they are doing, but you won't take my word for it.

Also nobody can be born a christian, you have to make a choice to follow Christ.
It's sad you even stayed at your church untill you were 18 or that you payed 1% church tax.
You obviously didn't believe, and now all you have is bitterness towards christianity, you gained nothing at that church.

Atheism may be growing, but Islam is growing the fastest, while "christianity" remains the biggest.
(I put it between quotes because alot of christians just get baptized and do communion at their traditional church (traditional = catholic, lutheran, anglical and others) and call themselves christian, like you probably did untill you were 18, but don't know Jesus).
So growth and size really mean nothing.

Just pointing out that some Greek philosophers believed that Earth is round...

Pythagoreans

or

Aristotle

Also Socrates, through his student Plato (the lectures he left behind), thought of Earth as a round object that floats in heaven.

SARS this ans SARS that...what a bunch of BS and media hype. The media just got tired of Iraq as there is no intensive fighting any more.



This quote was just randomly picked from Google with the search "malaria". How many people have died to SARS? A few hundred? Why nobody is worried about malaria?

This is what you have said. Do you want to take it back now??



This is just my speculation, but I think he had a purpose with it... The jews played a role in building up the German economy by working hard in factories as slaves. Also, I beleive there were scientists (as well as priests) supporting his side in that some races were above other...



Do you?

"So somehow, I would welcome SARS, as it solves a great threat to the danish economy."

Erik - I'm sorry, that was a mistake.

I cannot comment on your "speculation". From what I know about WW2, which isn't a lot besides what school taught me, I can only see jews as someone Adolf needed to blame in order to gain public support or something.

I was aware of that, it's just too bad the roman catholic's decided to follow the other greek philosophers.
I should have mentioned this, thanks for correcting me.
And I'm sorry I misrepresented your cultures philosophy.



Yes you are right, except that his main purpose was to exterminate the Jews,and as a benefit they could work in factories.

Scientists did many tests to make Jews aryan's, disgraceful horrifying tests.
(Like they would pour acid into Jewish eyes to try to make them blue)
There were also a few humane scientists that would do harmless experiments on Jews, totally harmless experiments, so that those Jews weren't sent to concentration camps.
Alas, only a few Jews were saved that way

Scientists would use science (evolution theory) to support Hitler in his discrimination.
Priests would manipulate the bible or use their own authority to support him.
Both were a disgrace to the human race.

Luckily there were also many scientists and priests who were against him.
(A famous christian who wanted to assasinate Htiler is Dietrich Bonhoeffer)

Anyway christians shouldn't follow priests and preachers, but their bible.
Paul (who wrote quite a few books of the bible) praised the Bereans (who lived in Berea) when they would
study their bibles to see if what Paul told them was sound.
(Ofcourse their bible didn't include the stuff Paul wrote, it only contained the Old testament(which we inherited thru the Jews) and the Gospels (Jesus' life and teachings)).

Well, my father committed suicide when I was 13, my 23-year old cousin was merciless killed in a traffic accident recently. My grandfather was struck down by cancer before he even retired. If there really is one of them gods, and he is such a nice guy, do you think he'd let these things happen? Is "lack of faith" your excuse? The best part of the (sad) funerals, was to see the priests lack of words. He just couldn't find some old quote to dig up like he does on the sundays. A moment of truth. I could see right through him, he was transparant, and I realized there is no life after death. There is only ultimate eternal death.
However the bible is not completely without use. It makes a fine substitute for fairytales IMHO.
I mean, a guy who could throw up an entire planet in less than a week and have kids walking on water seems as a fine character for a future cartoon. Perhaps I should submit a script to Disney?

Well, when I die, I'll be burned (cremated in popular terms), but perhaps I don't have to put that in my budget, will I burn in hell free of charge for all of my sins?

Silly, isn't it?

You can convince me, if you could supply me with some solid evidence of gods existence.
But you obviously can. And even if you could, I would find it extremely disgusting that some god is big-brothering me, and telling me what I can and what I can't - sounds like dictatorship. Well, fortunately there is no dictator god, so I can "sin" as much as I want.

Since we can't seem to agree on the god-issue, perhaps I can ask you.

What is wrong with homosexuality?

Nothing, IMHO is just a bunch of people with extremely bad taste.

I mean, how could anyone dream of waking up in front of a hairy arse every day, and then it comes the way they practice sex.

That is gay males, Lesbians, I understand them (Women look nicer than men)

Vespa> I'll have to assume your a man. So I'm asking you. Why are women attracted to men, if they are all hairy arses?

Yes, I am a man

That's the biggest mistery of mankind.

Pheromones perhaps....

Do women have "extremely bad taste", unless they're lesbians? You lack some confidence in how attractive you are?

Nope, I'm just saying I've never found any man atractive.
I don't, and have never, considered myself atractive,

Well, Vespa. There must be something about the male body thats causes attraction. Otherwise, the human specie would have been dead by Adam & Eve....... which gives me the oppertunity to provide an interesting link on the bible and homosexuality (Adam & Steve)
http://www.keithboykin.com/articles/biblegays.html

note: I think the bible of a book of fiction, so I don't need weblinks in order to question it. This is only provided for you to read.

I agree with you, there must be something. But I cannot know since I can't feel it

The Bible,
Give me a break.

Law must be concieved after reasoning and not religious dogmas.



I wonder what's Kike G's opinion on anti-semitism?

Well let me give a biblical account.

Lack of faith is my excuse for that priest.
The sad truth is many priests don't believe the bible is God's word.
they officially believe God exsists, but they don't in their hearts.
In will not judge these priests, but I wouldn't attend their churches.
Go to a good church, where such a church is one where:
1) You feel uncomfortable beeing there (since you are not a believer)
2) The preachers words sting your very soul.
3)Your heart punds as you are there.
4)There is a heavy pressure on your chest.

In other words, one were you feel convicted by God's Holy presence.
(I recommend charismatic and pentecoastel churches, but those aren't the only good ones, I go to an evangelical church).

And simply ask God to reveal himself to you, He will,maybe miraculously, maybe not, I promise, if you ask with a sincere heart.
(Not in an attitude of "salt28 said so I ask, but I really don't believe")

Now why do such bad things happen if God is good?

Simply because we sin we deserve death.
But God lets us live out of his goodness and gives us the option of forgiveness thru Jesus.
If satan had his way we would all be dead right now.
But God lets us live, but not forever.
His love for us is great, but not infinetly great to excuse our sin forever.
And then a day comes when we die and get judged.
And for some that day comes early, for others it comes later.
And some people die painful deaths, but be sure the wraths of hell are worse.
As a christian I do not fear death, I actually look forward to it (though this does not mean I want to die) because I can't wait 'till I see Jesus there.
Although before I was a christian I continually worried about getting cancer or something like that.
And somewhere I knew there was an afterlife, though I denied it, and that it wouldn't be good for me.


Now why is homosexuality a sin?
Because God created man and woman for each other.
And two males or two females is not the way God intended it to be.

You may say "But I was created this way", I don't believe you are.
We (like I said I was almost a homo myself) aren't created to be so.
But thru our sins, and our parents sins, satan has claims on our lives.God says in the bible,
because we deny him and choose to serve the lie he lets us over to our own selfish desires.
And satan perverts us to lust after men.
But there is deliverance thru Jesus.
When we follow Jesus we may claim deliverance from our perverted lusts.

And then some say "But some animals are also homosexual, so it's nature".
When we sinned we and the world(which God entrusted to us) became satan's property and yes he perverts nature too.

And that link you provided.I'll answer it if you really want me too (but it's alot of writing)



*sigh*.
I don't really want to get into another lengthy discussion, check my other posts in this thread for my response, since you're saying the same MadiZone already said.

what I meant was that
laws based on religious dogmas aren't fair since not everyone shares those believes (about, Jews, Gays, punnishment, etc).
and the fact that you are certain of god does not make it real. Religion can be tricky. ie, suicide bombers. You can be certain something is *right* (á la George Bush or Osama Bin Laden) and do something others consider *wrong*.

So law should be free of fanatism or discrimination in order to be considered fair or democratic.

I'm an agnostic myself, that is, I cannot know if there is a god or not.

I've had enough of you. You can't use your brain and don't respect yourself as an authority, you live blindly by "gods word" which is some manmade BS written two milleniums ago.

Your bubble is too thick, I'm not going to spend anymore time attempting to pop it.

Now please excuse me, while I go sin with my lovers. Perhaps someone would like to turn this thread back on the subject of overpopulation and disease?

I don't think this board is really the place to discuss the existence of god. It's really a personal choice if you believe or not.
If you believe in God there's no point in the scientific point of view. Nothing else but the word of God matters.
And if you don't believe, all the Bible is are ancient stories collected to fit a believe in 300 AD by men; not by God. You can probably guess what my view on things are but I can totally understand that the Bible is, if you believe, the only answer to may questions nobody, including science, have yet been able to explain.

Personally I think the Bible is one of the greatest books ever written. And if people would really read it and understand the message the writer (or God if you believe) is trying to send instead of reading the Bible as a history book with factual info of certain events the Bible would be a truely great book to almost everybody.
No other book written at the time the Bible was are read as the Bible; they are interpreted and understood as beautiful poetry. That's what you have to do to see the real value of the guidelines of life the Bible is trying to teach the reader.

Why is this thread still open, I wonder?

rjamorim> I like it's presence. But it's not really going anywhere. But so far, it only confirms my atheism. Why would you want it closed? No one is asking you to participate in it. I'd appreciate it to stay open.

Wow... discussions between devout athiests and evangelicals are always a bit troublesome

I will put in my thoughts on religion, which in part came from a Dutch friend of mine, similar to Madizone in that he was brought as part of the church only to leave it.

God, science, creation theory, evolution.. forget about that for now. What does a religion do for people? I think, at the most basic level, it gives the rules of what is right and wrong - and is the 'unseen' source of strength for those who need it.

The 10 commandments, and the whole idea of heaven and hell - they are a moral compass. These are things you should and shouldn't do, if you obey them you will be rewarded after death, if you don't you will be punished.

A religion gives morality to the people who feel they need to be told what it is. Personally, I trust my own morals and values, and I rely on my own strength and ability to struggle through life. Other people prefer to be guided with what is good and bad, it is the same as their personal beliefs, so there isn't a problem.

On that level, I have no beef.. but with organized religion I become sceptical, and uncomfortable. Why should God - the most powerful being in existance - give a crap who is worshipping him in the correct manner? To me it is old-skool peer pressure. We celebrate our God like this, you will do so too, unless you want to be a sinner? (my best memory of this is the episode of the simpsons where homer doesn't go to church, and everybody hates him for it)

Organized religion separates us into distinct groups. I might be totally misquoting history, but weren't the Crusades a bunch of Christian wankers who thought they could spread the love of God by massacaring any Asians who dared to think "er... we are happy with our own religion thankyou"?

I'll stop rambling, I hate long posts


I honestly don't believe that death, followed by a face to face conversation with God is enough to silence Madizone's passion!


Exactly the problem I have with pigeon-holing people into boxes of beliefs, they gang up and cause trouble.


Even if this can be seen as an attack against a persons faith.. I allow myself to be open enough to find Madi's comment undeniable comic genious Sorry...

I see no reason for it to be open. People are here only criticizing each other's opinions and beliefs. There's no progress coming from this thread. Quite the opposite.

@MadiZone:The truth hurts, but like I said it's your choice and nobody can force you.


@/\/ephaestous:
And what I meant was that you should read my previous posts.
I make it clear that christians shouldn't, according to the bible, force their beliefs on anyone.
We are to tell them the truth, as it is in the bible, and then they may determine for themselves if they
wish to accept it.
So laws against homosexuality are unchristian.
As a matter of fact they are anti-christian, because if we by the law would determine personal beliefs, it
could easily be turned against us,as was in ancient rome where the bible was illegal and christians were killed by the state for their beliefs.
We can't make all sin illegal and if we did everyone would still sin,so making sin illegal would do nothing to save people. I believe only Jesus can save,and not human laws.

And laws aren't based on reasoning or on the bible.
Laws reflect what a society thinks, be it reasonable and/or biblical, or not.
And reason is just as tricky.
Religions differ on issues just as reasoning people do.

Ofcourse laws should be free of fanatism and descrimination.
But that's easy to say.
Slave owners didn't think they discriminated.
Osama doesn't think he is fanatic.

Quite frankly I'm glad I don't entirely rely on my own thinking and have Gods truth in my bible.
Because surely Godstruth is greater than mine.


May I define three concepts:
1)When a person thinks something, he acknowledges he may be wrong, but according to the way things appear he finds it reasonable that he is right.
2)When a person believes something, then when he looks at the way things appear it seems to him to be undeniably true.
I look at the world around me and believe in God, I also believe that the earth is round based on the way it appears.
3)Something is a fact when the way things appear is enough to convince most people for it to be real.
Therefore it is real, except for the people that believe it is not so, as far as they are concerned they are right and the others are wrong.

A long time ago it was a fact that the earth was flat to those people, because it appeared so.
If you had said you believed the earth was round,they'd say you denied the facts.

Not that long ago "ether" was a fact, and if you believed otherwise you denied facts.

Sure now the evidence for a round earth is so overwhelming that we say it is a fact.
Same with ether.

So God is real, and anyone who claims otherwise is foolish in my eyes, just as I am foolish in MadiZone's eyes.

Edit:

@Mac.
The crusades: Israel was in hands of some people (I thought the persians).
The persians let christian monks freely enter Israel.
But then came the (turks or saracens, I think they are the same, but don't know which it was) and they would not let christians visit Israel.
Muslims wouldn't let christians go to Israel.
Wherever you stand in the way between someone and their beliefs, you may expect them to fight back.
And that is why the crusades happend.


My take (this is what I think, not what my bible says, I don'tknow what the bible says on this.
So I may be wrong.)

Religions fall into three categories:
1) Those that serve man as he rejects God.
Atheism, Agnostics, Satanism and the like.
2) Those that mislead man as he searches for God.
Most religions (even some who claim to be christian)
3) Those that serve man as he serves God.
Obviously christianity.


Yeah I'll stop posting in this thread, even if it isn't closed.
Enough defending my faith for one day.
Just know I told you what th bible says, and now it's your responsibility.
And yeah I get offended, but my bible tells me to love my neighbours and tell them the truth, that they
might be set free, as I am, so even when you offend me, I still love you.

8 people posted in the time it took me to write that

I for one appreciate a thread like this being left open. It is at least providing discussion rather than mindless insults. It's nice to be allowed to speak, fuck cen****hip

I don't really see that this thread is against forum rules or insulting to anyone.
If anyone is offended you can let me know and I will reconsider.

I go to sleep, and when I wake up, I find that HA is being used as a pulpit for religious propaganda and a debate about the merits or non-merits of homosexuality while, at the same time, furthering the discussion of whether or not old people should be killed off through SARS to "fix" some countries economy.

Umm, no.

salt28:

You are way out of line bringing this stuff here. If you want to preach or prostelitize, especially with parroted and sophistical rhetoric, then go somewhere else. If I see this again you will be banned on the spot.

MadiZone:

I would have imagined that by now you would have learned to use a little more discretion in your posts and in the discussions you start. As I said yesterday, if I see another thread or discussion from you start up in this way (obviously trollish or flamebait, poorly reasoned, etc), then you will be banned also.