I was hoping someone had some suggestions before i take my CD-RWs out for target practice

I have been using InCD for awhile with Win2k and I find it useful for transferring files - but almost every time I use it I get a BSOD after I remove it - I've come to expect it so at least I can make sure I have saved any important info. The problem now is that I got a MP3 player (iRiver 350) and I would like to use the CD-RW to just delete one song - add another etc - instead of erasing the whole CD and re-writing. The iRiver says it supports packet writing and I did have it working with InCD (although it wasn't terribly stable - skipped sometimes) but I didn't want to have the computer BSOD everytime I wanted to add a song.

I just tried Roxio's Easy CD v6 - Packet writing program called 'Drag-to-File' which seems to format the disk as a UDF/ISO9660 (mode 2) - and I've had no luck at getting one to play in the 350. The InCD formats the disk in UDF which the 350 seems to have an easier time reading but still not solid. I'm going to try installing the older DirectCD to see if that might work but aparently they are very similar so I'm not expecting things to get better

I wanted to see if anyone has some suggestions or experience with using CD-RW with mp3 players, which software/OS/ problems/ solutions. I don't want to permanently burn these files on CD-R hense the reason to use CD-RW, but at the same time I want to find a solution that works with the 350 and doesn't cause Win2k to BSOD.

Thanks in advance

I was getting the same problem too in WinXP (the BSOD, imagine, WinXP!), and I think the problem disappeared after I updated to the latest InCD version.

Last time I tried UDF writing software (IIRC I tried both Roxio EasyCD and Nero InCD) - it was a few months ago - all of them had major issues (stability, certain filesystem operations didn't work, etc).
As far as I remember, my expanium portable (EXP301) could handle discs in UDF format correctly.

FYI - I did all the updates possible, INCD, burner, BIOS - all with the latest updates and still the problem remained.

I used to use DirectCD then InCD, then back to DCD. DCD was the most reliable. InCD would lock the drive down making it inaccessible from other apps. I would occasionally run into read problems (w/ my iRiver 350) after pre-formatting the RW's and placing files on them. So now I don't use either and instead write the RW's in UDF format on a per-session basis. Much more reliable. Nero won't write LFN's in either UDF or UDF/ISO formats (though it used to). So now I use Media Center 9 to make RW's for the 350 (which does not produce UDF disks). The best program I've used to date for burning has been Stomp's RNM (I did the 30 day trial), which did everything right (never tried their DLA).

In hindsight, DCD disks worked extremely well as long as you just added files to it. If you deleted then added files...thats when the read errors occured (due to file fragmentation).

xen-uno

I still get a BSOD with InCD 3.5.24.0 and Windows 2000 Service Pack 3. It happens after removing the disc and opening any program which displays a drive list (common dialog controls, Windows Explorer...).

PacketCD (which came with my WinOnCD 3.6 a long time ago) was very unstable and caused my Windows 98 to crash.

The best packet writing software I came across was DirectCD (comes with WinOnCD 5 and higher).

Edit: Fixed a typo.

DirectCD (from EZCD V4) worked pretty well for me on a RioVolt (made by iriver). Some disks (maybe too
fragmented from too many deletions and additions) had problems that seemed like the player couldn't read fast enough.. like short dropouts in the sound.

Is there any facility for defragging these CDRW's? Ultimately you could read the whole CD back to
the PC then recreate it.

What is BSOD anyway? With InCD it complains that other accounts can't access the drive, but I can't
compare to directcd as I haven't used that on a multi-user system.

BSOD - Blue Screen Of Death

I use InCD (WinXP, no BSODs - don't know exactly which version),
but it locks the computer when any CD is inserted and ejected,
so I always remove it from autostart and use it when it's required.

To defrag an RW is to totally rewrite it. Even if something like Diskeeper could defrag it my bet is it would take longer than simply reformatting (quick method) and copying everything back over (with much better results).

xen-uno

The Mount Rainier CD-RW format is considerably more robust than packet-writing. Adoption has been slow, however, and I'm not aware of any portables that can decode a Mt. Rainier disc, even though Sony and Philips are both listed as "Promoters" on mt-rainier.org and both sell portable MP3-CD players.

Jim K.

I just bought Stomp's RNM 4.5 ($39). Created a disk using ISO Level 2 Long (212 char max) and it works beautifully in the iMP-350 (where's that Ogg support?). No filename truncation what-so-ever. Haven't tried DLA yet...but will. Asta Lavista Nero.

xen-uno

I was just looking at Stomp's RNM with DLA (Drive Letter Access) - to me this seems like a packet writing software? Can anyone verify this? - has anyone tried this with a portable mp3 player? I will try it and post my results. I will also try directCD as well and see if I can get one working!

So I'm getting the impression that not many people use CD-RW to record their mp3s for portable mp3 players?

Edit: *DLA is not included in the trial version of this software
help anyone!

On the contrary. I only use CDRW discs for my MP3 CD player, but I don't use any unstable packet writing software. I just write the files to the CD:s like you do normally and then erase them when needed...

DLA is UDF Packet Writing software based on the UDF 1.5 spec. It also supports Mt. Rainier.

I just DLA'd a disk...dragged & dropped some files into it...stuck it in my 350...reads it just fine. No filename truncation (UDF spec is 128 chars min). Unlike InCD, drive is still accessible from other apps (wasn't sure about this).

Packet written disks are reliable as long as you only add files...they can't be treated like a hard drive.

It's all good baby!

xen-uno

Well I just finished doing some tests with DirectCD - and although I got no BSODs, which leads me to conclude that it is more stable than InCD, it still failed to register as readable in the 350!
I was concerned that I'm using a 12X CD-RW, and burning it at 12X and that it might have problems because of burning at that speed but even though DirectCD says that if there is problems you should reduce the burning speed - but I could find nowhere to change it!!!

@xenno - can you try erasing some mp3s and putting some others on and see how the 350 handles that - If it just reads the files when adding them on then I shall just use the regular way of burning RWs. One of the main points of packet writing is to treat them as hard drives, or floppies as they like to use the analogy. Pretty useless if no-one can make a software that actually works properly!

So off came InCD, DirectCD is coming off now, I'll try RNM tonight probably but I'm starting to think Sachankara might be right!

PS - I did try Mt. Rainier with InCD but the 350 was not able to read it.

You'll love Stomp RNM/DLA (yes, you have to buy it to get DLA)

DCD always worked pretty well, although sometimes my 350 wouldn't read the disk (reading was somewhat erratic, by and large though, no problem). The more you use the disk like a floppy/HD, the greater the chance for read errors. This is in regards to deleting/editing files only. As I said in the earlier posts, file fragmentation is what kills readability (and makes your iRiver work alot harder than it should).

xen-uno

Packet writing Ist death.

Not here.I use InCD almost every day , it works great on my machine (WinME ).Version 3.31.

I remember when I got my first Sony 2x CD-R drive that using multi-session burns you could "delete" a file in a later session and it would be invisible to the OS afterward. Sure, the file was still there, just ignored in the TOC or however that trick worked, but to the end user it was "deleted" and no crufty packet writing software to deal with either, just a very ancient version of Nero.

Edit: Erm. Sachankara beat me to this one.

I fully agree... Mount Rainier should solve most of this issues, i think.

cya

The problem on my player generally isn't that they (fragmented DirectCD) can't be read, just not fast enough.

The ideal solution (barring any change to the player) would be a setting for the DirectCD driver so
the gap from a deleted file wouldn't be reused unless a whole file could fit in it... or the old "delete"
method for non rewriteables mentioned in a prior post.

My usual mode of using CDRW is adding tracks/albums from time to time until full without a lot
of deletions so *generally* fragmentation hasn't been a problem for me.

Although you'd lose space and eventually require a format/replace, there may be ways to make the method I used work for this. I'm pretty sure Nero will let you do that on a normal multi-session burn. Then, when you're out of space, format the disc and re-add the tracks. It's not the most graceful solution, but it solves any fragmentation problems and is completely standard.

That's what I do. Standard is the key word.

I am using directCD 5.02d without any stability problem. My imp-150 is perfectly able to read those discs.
But after a few time (depending on how many deletions you did on the disc), it is slower to recognize the disc.
When this happens, the only solution seems to be to defragment the disc: move everything to your harddrive, erase all files on the cd, then copy back everything.

Do anyone know which software takes all the befenits of Mount Rainier nowadays?
I am considering about using packet writing, but I have tried directcd and incd a few time ago, when mount rainier did not exist, and all of them where a painfull. Now that a new standard is here, and tries to be better that packet writing I knew before, I would like to give it a try...

I could be wrong but I believe Nero InCD & Stomp are the ones supporting Mt. Rainer, I don't know how fully they implement the new standard but I think you should try and see if you can get either of those programs working properly before going ahead with the Mt. Rainer.

While I initially had InCD installed with Mt. Rainer it was still pretty useless since about every 2nd CD-RW I re-wrote would cause Win2k SP3 to BSOD.

I have just finished installing stomp and I will run some tests and report what I find about using it for packet writing and if it works with the iRiver 350

Try InstantWrite in InstantCD suit from VOB(now prinnicle).
It's the best packet writer software i have ever used.

InCD/B'clip
It cause drive lock up problem. File table is not undated unless u software "eject" the disc.
Possible data lost if system is shutdown non-gracfully at the mean time.
UDF supportted: 1.0/1.5/2.0

DirectCD/Winxp burn engine
Very well know to produce fake packet writing result. File is wirte to HDD cd image instead of the actual cdrw.
Need to "finalise" thus burnt the CD at the end. Lock drive at the mean time.
UDF supportted: 1.0/1.5

InstantWrite
True immediate packet writing. File write instantly when u drag-and-drop/save to CDRW. No lock drive, No finalise/No power failure data lost.
UDF supportted: 1.0/1.5/2.0/2.01/2.50

Hy! I tried VOB InstantWrite, It works well, it seems, but doesn't format CDRW with mount rainier!! It gives me an error. Seems that does well the other types of format....
My drive supports well Mount Rainier, TEAC CDRW 540E. In WinXp... I am trying to format a 4x CDRW, and the drive has a 12x for CDRW writing
Has the pinnacle version 7.0 any change in InstantWrite from VOB version ?

Anyone tried InCD 4? it seems to work well on my computer. No problem with it, also I've been using only for weeks, but does its job very well and does no interfere with nero at all

I am using InCD 4 for a few weeks now and everything works great. No lockups or crashes and it can format in mount rainier.

Gah! You lucky people that can use InCD 4.

I've been caught by this BSOD in fs_rec.sys after chkdsk with every releaese of InCD 4 (incl this latest one with Nero 6). This is on 2 different computers (one P3-933 w/ Via chipset, the other an Athlon XP w/ SiS 735) on both XP Pro RTM and SP1a.

I tried packet writing once cause it came with my first burner long long time ago (Yamaha CDR-400t SCSI). After getting errors and messing up my system I never tried again. Just use multi sessions to write RWs and when it's getting full, copy files back to HD, sort them out, format RW, write them back.
Frustrating part of this story is the Mt. Rainier. According to specs it should work flawless almost in a OS-transparent manner, like writing files to a harddisk. But when reading this thread the opposite seems to be the case
BTW This habit of optical drives being not yet able to write cleanly in a random access manner, made me continue to use my Iomega Zip 100 disks, even until now.