Anyone know why I get the ambulance/alien/screech when playing udial immediately after a different sound file?

If I play udial immediately after opening fb2k or after playing the file again then I hear no audible distortion, just the dial tones. However I do hear the distortion if I play udial after playing a different sound file, or after playing udial when it sounded distorted. This is without changing settings of any kind. Upon looking at the fb2k console, the distortion seems to occur after fb2k closes a stream and creates a new one.

Pertinent specs:
foobar2000 0.8.3
no DSPs enabled
DirectSound 2.0 with hardware mixing
SB Audigy 2 Platinum eX

In that instance, fb2k was opened, played udial (no distortions were heard), played another file, and then played udial again (this time, there were distortions).

In this instance udial is played repeatedly without distortions.

So, what's the verdict?

i play the file without hearing anything other than the dialing phone. so i guess my set up is good. i played it in foobar without any audio settings or anything. i then applied replaygain and played it again. the dialing was louder and the second half of the file was weird static or something.

Tested with E-mu 0404 using foobar2000 at 44100 Hz, and with the PPHS resampler at 48000, 96000 & 192000 Hz. No sirens or aliens, all equipment still working.

Tested on my rio Karma (as a flac file) : no siren.

Not even when I set the karma's EQ at +10dB .. And this is strange, as it's quite clear a few dB is enough for the clipping to be very strongly audible.

What is the karma doing ? soft-limiting after the EQ ? That would mean the karma does EQ on numbers longer than 16 bits (can an ARM proc do that ?).

Oh my sweet, sweet, karma !



My SbLive! plays this sample very well too.
With or without SSRC to 48kHz, I get no siren (unless I add a +1dB gain, or set the front Wave setting in any of the highest positions - they're all marked as being +x by the Kx Mixer anyway, so it's pretty obvious those 5 highest settings do digital scaling and can cause clipping, even if the master setting is at 20%..).
I don't know if this good behaviour is due to my using the Kx driver, being clever about the mixer setting, or using trustful WaveOut instead of DirectSound.

As a side note : to test resampling artifacts, I find it more adequate to use a plain sine wave (19.5 kHz shows the sBlive! resampling artifacts *very* audibly).

On this file, no resampling artifact audible (and I wouldnt turn the volume up to see if there's any low leveled artifact noise, that doesnt make any sense. If the resampling artifacts are *that* low, that means the resampling was good enough on this sample, period.)

didnt look the details, but it's most surely due to DirectSound.
It's designed to automagically choose audio settings adequate to what you play, and mix all the stuff you feed it.
Once your first file is done and you feed another one (without making a pause in the audio output), DirectSound can not reset the card's settings (that would make a slight pause), so it does whatever conversion required to play the new audio signal on the current card settings *in software* (or maybe uses features of the card to do them. It can do anything, as long as it doesnt introduce a pause in the output).

My knowledge of DirectSound doesnt go further than that. I could imagine DirectSound clients have ways to ask for reset of precise audio output parameters, and that foobar can use DirectSound in a better way than what I described.

But the scenario I described is , IMO, very probably what's happening.

Played with Foobar using M Audio Audiophile 2496
Plays dialling tones fine very slight humming halfway through sample but I can live with that

Tried this sample with my E-MU 0404. I don't get any "alien" sounds or other high-pitched noises. However, I get a quiet buzzing sound, which doesn't go away unless I downsample the audio to 32KHz or below. Is this normal?

On my Yamaha DS-XG card:
No DSP: Aliens, no humming
SSRC 48khz: no aliens, no humming
Stereo > Mono: high pitched aliens, no humming

I tested the "udial.ape" on foobar2000 0.8.3. My soundcard is VIA AC'97. I tried it first without resampler and there was distortions. When I adjusted the "Preamp" to -3 dB there was no distortions. Next I tested it with three resamplers: SSRC, PPHS and SRC (Secret Rabbit Code v1.01). I upsampled the file to 48 kHz with all resamplers and all combos. All produced a variable amount of distortions, except SRC's "Sinc Fastest" quality in normal and slow mode. The distortions disappeared completely in that quality and in normal and slow mode.

I just found a program called YMFTools for Yamaha cards, one of the options is "High quality 44.1 kHz Mode" so I enabled it and now I get very faint high pitched alien noise without resampling. I'm not entirely sure what it did but it seems to have reduced clipping.

Edit: Now when I use SSRC to 48 kHz it produces an extremely high frequency sine wave. At first I wasn't even sure I was hearing it but it's definitely there.

Strange! I got an old SB Live! (CT4760). Udial produce a noticeable ambulance siren without resampling. Seemingly it was gone with resampling to 48kHz. But I now tried it more extensively and found that I still get some high pitched squeaking with resamping to 48kHz on my speakers when I yank the volume up a bit (but not on my headphones...). Except when, as cyborg found, using Secret Rabbit Code resampler with "Sinc Fastest" (normal and slow). Then I only get the dialing tone. The other qualities of SRC, and all qualities of SSRC and PPHS produces the squeaking... Wonder why? Well, guess I'm using SRC "Sinc Fastest" normal mode for playback hereafter....

Hello, I just wanted to say that I can't open the udial.zip for some reason. WinRAR spits out an "Unexpectied end of archive" when I try to open it.. I've tried a lot of things, but I just can't seem to open it... And I don't think the file is currupt because no one else has complained of it.. anyways, just thought I'd like you know.

The zip works. Re-download.

No odd noises/buzzing at all, using an EMU 0404.

Sorry for the bump but I thought I may add the strange results I observed playing this sample.

Okay, I just tested this sample with my cheap/old Creative SoundBlaster PCI 4.1 Digital and my old (1970s) Pioneer SA-5300, as well as cheap Koss KSC10 Stereophones. Strangely enough no screeching or other weird noises at all noticed when using all output methods even when all the sound cards outputs are maxed. No noises either until I turn up the amp to unreasonably loud levels. I did not need to use any resampling, and I know my card resamples to 48000Hz.
Despite not hearing any 'ambulance' (I had to use the soft clipping limiter in Foobar to hear what that sounded like at first), I could definitely hear the high frequency/ies (perhaps because I'm still a teenager). Using tone generators up to 21000Hz or so I can hear a similar effect so I think its more a case of sensitive hearing rather than limited equipment.
On another note, I'm hoping that listening to such loud high frequencies wont harm my hearing down the line.

Edit: Perhaps I should test this sample in Linux to see whether the resampling behaviour is any different in that operating system. Unfortunately it won't be a 100% accurate replication of the test as maxing the volume in Linux results in very obvious clipping (not sure if by hardware or software) with normal music.

I'm getting the same shit thought I was alone hehe... And I have to subscribe to Yahoo Groups to get the samples mirror (I subscribed but its awaiting approval...)

I have SB Live Value. kx drivers 3537. My DSP is cleared - I have there only two src (one is FXBus 0/1, another is AC97 Microphone) and k1lt. I tested this file on foobar2000 0.8.3. On every output (DS, wave, ASIO, Kernel Streaming) is good - without "aliens", resampling to 48khz isn't needed (but i use it). Everything was doing with clear DSP in foobar, but when i add soft clipping limiter i have distortion. So I shouldn't use soft clipping limiter?

update: I've tested this on my Creative MuVo. I made mp3 from lame 3.90.2 --alt-preset insane (320kbps) - on computer it sounds like original, but when i listen to this on my MuVo when high frequency was it sounds like clicking or wheeze but this wasn't "alien sounds" like on computer. Something little different.

Forget using this sample with a lossy encode. It's pointless. Instead of using the soft clipping limiter, use the advanced limiter. The soft clipping limiter was designed to clip before the sound card does to prevent worse sounds coming from certain sound cards I believe.

I used mp3, because MuVo didn't read wave

Any modification of this sample will cause it to not function as intended.

I've tested this sample on another computer (Yamaha OPL3SA2 on ISA slot). Results are impressive - with windows drivers with volume at full level, without any DSP in foobar and RG - no clipping. On every outputs (DS, wave, Kernel) and every sample rate (44100, 48000). Only when soft clipping limiter was on, there was "alien sounds". I'm impressed, because this sound card has many years (I have it for about 8 years) and sounds better than newest sound card from Creative. OS - XP HE

maybe because it's not ac97 compatible?

What's with the AC97 codec resampling bullshit?

If you mean my earlier post:

Then I assure you it's not "bullshit". It did work in my AC'97 soundcard.

If you use the Simple Spectrum visualization (set to mixdown) for foobar, you can easily see if there are any distortions, without blowing your speakers. SRC on Sinc Fastest worked best for me also with my SB Live! 5.1. Simple Spectrum still showed some small distortions, though I could not hear them. Resampling to 32kHz with any resampler resulted in no audible or visual distortions w/ simple spectrum.

See Here for a little image I made of the various resamplers on Simple Spectrum.

1 is with no resampling, normal Creative drivers on my SB Live! 5.1
2 is SSRC set to 48kHz
3 is PPHS set to 48kHz
4 is SRC Sinc Fastest at 48kHz
5 is any resampler at 32kHz

I was just in the mood to type that word.

foobar (no dsps) => kernelstreaming => m-audio revo=> SPDIF => RME adi2 standalone dac

= phone sound + very high tone

there is no clipping when i look at the spdif levels in the mixer

all volumes are set to 100% (i have no chance to set them to another level in digital out mode)

If the tone is present then it should be played back, I made a 19.5kHz test tone and played it back, the volume I perceived was about the same. Does that mean the soundcard is clipping? I'd say no, I'd say it is just doing the job of playing back what is recorded.

But then I see you guys quite convinced about it and made me doubt. So here goes the naive question: How is it that if you only hear the dialing and NOT the high freq tone then everything is fine?.

Everybody has different ears, so not everybody hear 19khz tone or not every speakers can produce 19khz tone. Only when you hear "alien sounds" it menas that sound card has clipping.

It doesn't necessarily mean that it clips. Resampling can produce alien sounds.

ok, then my soundcard and my hearing is OK

But wouldn't it still be caused by clipping in the resampling process?

i think there is something wrong with my soundcard, and i was coming to look for help on the forums. and i saw this topic, so i checked it out. i can hear the dialing fine. there is no clicking. and i can hear this really high pitch piercing noise, but thats supposed to be there right. im pretty sure i have no DSP's turned on, and my volume control is at its max.

so is there something wrong with my soundcard or not?

You didn't write why you think that there's something wrong with your soundcard.
udial isn't about finding out if soundcard is damaged, it's rather to check its quality. You should start a separate topic.
As for what you hear, it's good that you don't hear clicking, but you shouldn't hear high pitched sound either - it's way too high to be heard (you could "sense" it in the best case), if you hear it then it means that your soundcard has low-quality resampling/clips (so the sound is aliased to lower frequencies). Try lowering the volume, use resampler, and different output modes until you hear clear dialing only.

yeah i guess i 'sense' it, because im the only one in the room who notices it, and i can notice it from outside the room when its still playing.

There's what I get for soundcards I tested:

Creative SoundBlaster Live! 24-bit
- Buzzy sound when Allow Hardware bla bla Enabled in DSound plugin in Winamp and SSRC disabled.
- Perfect with "Allow..." with SSRC @ 48KHz
- Perfect without "Allow..." with SSRC @ 48KHz
- Good without "Allow..." in DSound with or without SSRC !!!!!!!
- Good on all WAVE programs, even on old "sndrec32.exe" (don't know how this program is in english cos I always used polish windows )

But there is one strange thing! These are new results, not old. In the past (2-3 months ago) udial.wav sounded perfect witn SSRC@48 or 96. WAVE things produced fizzy-wizzy sound that are as much annoying as Crazy-Frog Some time ago I installed Win2k3 Server and there first I saw that without SSRC I can have clear sound withoud any buzzing, aliens, ambulances or other artefacts Now I have XP SP2

Volume 100/100 for Master/Wave

NVIDI® nForce™ Audio (SONATA)
- Aliens atackt @ evere settings except SSRC @ 48KHz
- With SSRC @ 48KHz sounds to me quite good and I havent heard any arifacts or noises with my headphones.

Volume 100/100 for Master/Wave

Creative SoundBlaster 128PCI
Maybe this card's old but noone can tell me that Live! on emu2k1 are better! RMAA usually get better for sb128pci and look @ this:

- No artifact at all in any mode I used to play!

I don't remember that I used 100/100 for volume, but used 100 for Wave for sure! So I think it was 100/100 but not 100% sure

Some shitty card on Cmedia 9xxx which I know has output to 5.1 systems

- buzzing and fizzing on all settings I used for testing!

One word I can say bout this card : "SHIT"

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I used WinAmp 2.91 cos it's the best with out_ds_ssrc.dll 2.2.6 SSRC and foobar2k with SSRC @ 48KHz. Both speakers and headphones (plugged directly to card to avoid my shitty ampligfiers that noising at higher freqences )

I hadn't tested my ALC650 (nForce Audio) on standard Realtec drivers (that has worse audio quality that nvidia ones) on udial.wav but I'm sure it should sound good and without artefacts @ 48KHz (if realtecs drivers can produce "good" sound by any meaning )

ps. If you have ALC6xx try installing nVidia drivers (if it's possible) , cos those have way better sound (quite easy to check by ears ) and aprox. 10dBA in Dynamic Range diffrence in RMAA
ps2. In BWGen I can clearly hear 19.5KHz sine as in udial.wav, but that program isn't perfect for that frequences so I will do tests on others better for that purpose programs
ps3. Sorry for my english

Hehe why do you think I still use that ancient card over my onboard Realtek?

No. Here's udial's sonogram :



Here's what happens when it clips (aliased harmonic distortion) :



And here's what happens when it is resampled (alias only) :

I'll probably add to my system second audio card for general use/music listening, so I'll have, apart from Aureal Vortex SQ2500 (still few A3D 2.0 games here ), also Turtle Beach Santa Cruz (much better for music, right?), that I'll get extremelly cheaply.
And I've read, using Search HA, that Santa Cruz does resample, however much better than Creative. So, my question: is this sample enough to determine if resampling is absolutelly good and if it would be preferable or not to do it in software?

I tried with my Audiophile 2496 a few minutes ago.

I used fb2k, no resampling (the audiophile can take almost every frequency), no DSPs (not even volume), DirectSound 2.0 output. In my Audiophile mixer all levels up to 0 (highest).

I can clearly hear the dialing. In addition to that I can hear a high tone in parallel to every dial from and including the fourth.



I'm using headphoes. The high tone comes from the right side. Now when I flip the headphones I can't hear the high tone anymore. So I guess my left ear isn't that good anymore (yes, my girlfriend is the only one with a drivers license and I'm not living in the UK ).

Not necceserilly. When I was going through listening tests (medical background) using some wierd/very quiet sounds, very often (depends on the sample) the sound was percieved in the opposite ear to which it was played. So perhaps your right ear isn't that good anymore

I was convinced this test tone was worthless, since testing on my AC97 onboard sound I couldn't eliminate the high frequency no matter what volumes I tried or what resamples I did (using Adobe Audition). Then I tried with my low-budget Logitech USB-350 headset, and it immediately worked as intended, heh. A simple volume adjustment and all was well. I know nothing about the details of this set, but it's apparently got an "internal soundcard" (there's a a little bulge along the cord which is smaller than a remote car door opener) which dominates this crap I've got on my mobo (NForce3 chipset).

Sadly, I just ordered some Sennheiser HD 280 Pro headphones because I wanted the fully encompassing earpads (the Logitechs sit on the ear and make you sore after long use). The Logitech model is excellent for gaming communications with it's nice clear microphone and the plug and play aspect, but I wanted something better for music. But now it looks like I better get a soundcard to go with the headphones, or I'll actually be taking a step backwards by plugging Sennheisers into this trash...

I have clear dialing + high tone with this sample whenever I turn Noise Sharpening DSP off (turning in on causes audible distortion in this sample). The question is: should I stop using this DSP module altogether, of is it a purely theoretical sample, and no actual music would be ruined by Noise Sharpening?

I'm pretty sure I fried my tweeter playing this sound... it clipped my amplifier and my tweeter now has a scratchy sound to it. Yes, I did read the warning about damaging equipment and I didn't even play it at half volume but it still seemed to damage my $30 tweeter.

I heard a greatly distorted "siren" with 44,1khz. Foobar resampled it to 48khz by my command, and it almost disappeared.

Now if I yank up the volume, both in windows and from the speakers (I use headphones plugged in), I get this really piercing tone, thats not so much as a sound anymore, than it is a needle in my brain. Am I supposed to hear this? The tone is clear and not distorted at all. I use Audigy Player and no other DSP:s. Should I hear this tone? Is it absolutely, completely impossible to hear? This clear tone is all distortion or something then?

Still, I hear it.

I will add a note to get some really cheap PC speakers if you want to test this. I don't want to see any more stuff getting blown...

Trying this with my onboard nForce4 sound chip creates the distortion - no matter what I try: Resampling to 48khz, putting down WAVE volume does decrease the distortion, but it's definately still there!

I tried it on my X-fi... No distortion at all, and it even resamples to 48khz onboard (i have a hard time forcing it to use the bitmatched playback on the flexijack connection). I guess this shows, that Creative did something right on the resampler on this card ;-)

Btw, where do I find the soft limiter, that was mentioned early in this thread?

You can set your X-Fi to Audio Creation Mode if you want bit-match playback, even in Analog connection.

That's why I wrote "i have a hard time forcing it". The settings are correct, and it works perfectly from the front panel - Only a few times it has worked through flexijack though. They should fix their drivers.

I have tested UDIAL.WAV encoded into 320 kbps MP3 with original resolution and sampling rate with these results:

Pioneer VSX 516 - straight from USB flash disc on its input - distorted
PC AD1988A - XP Professional - Winamp - analogue output - distorted
PC AD1988A - XP Professional - Winamp - SPDIF VSX 516 - distorted
notebook AD1981 (not sure which version) - Vista Basic - Goldwave - analogue output - distorted
notebook AD1981 (not sure which version) - Vista Basic - Winamp - analogue output - CLEAN, not distorted

distorted = I can hear cracking (clipping?) AT ANY VOLUME LEVEL

What is going on here?