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Topic: OGG transcoding tools. (Read 9752 times) previous topic - next topic
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OGG transcoding tools.

John33 just created lameenc-ov, that accepts a vorbis input file to be converted to MP3. Good for people that need to reconvert their OGGs and use them in hardware players.

LameDropXPd now supports vorbis inputs too.

Both new binaries are available at my site.

Regards;

Roberto.

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #1 –
Great! - I have this transcoding problem just now. My OGGs most are all about 400 kbps (-q 9) and for holidays i need smaller MP3s. Something around 150 (--preset medium). Now i wonder if have to expect havy transcoding losses. There are a lof of warnings around when making lossy files out of an already lossy file format.

Would the songs resp. mp3s sound much better when directly from CD? Does anybody have similar experiences when transcoding files like mentioned above? - I am afraid i still have no time till Mondey to make up my own mind with a private weekend audio test...

So thanks for any response!

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #2 –
<off topic>IT's Ogg, not OGG. PLEASE DON'T SAY OGG. THE ONLY TIME IT'S OK TO SAY OGG IS WHEN YOU'RE USING ALL CAPS ON PURPOSE. If not, just say Ogg or ogg, please.</off topic>
384kbps, sadly, no one can answer your first question but yourself.

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #3 –
Sorry for fully-uppercasing Ogg...

Indeed i have made some few test files but this don't give a valid/representing result. Perhaps there is some very slight 'atmospheric difference'. But i it doesn't really matter - if the difference really is perceptible.
Maybe there is no notable difference and my impression is only psychologically caused  because believe to know transcoding is problematic... - That just why i have asked here.

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #4 –
The only way to find out wether the difference really is perceptible or not is to conduct a properly set up ABX blind test.

Check the FAQ on how to set one up properly and compare the newly transcoded mp3's against your original Oggs.

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #5 –
Quote
Great! - I have this transcoding problem just now. My OGGs most are all about 400 kbps (-q 9) and for holidays i need smaller MP3s. Something around 150 (--preset medium). Now i wonder if have to expect havy transcoding losses. There are a lof of warnings around when making lossy files out of an already lossy file format.


Now I know why you are called '384'!

I tested vorbis Q6 to 128k mp3 and abxed a loss. You have to test a few samples and see how it is for you. Since you use 400k bitrates you might want to give wavpack lossy or optimfrog dualstream a go. You will have no transcoding issues and chances of artifacts extremely unlikely. For 400k use quality 5 for dualstream or -hb400 for wavpack. If you can live with 800k files go lossless. Q9 is overkill for vorbis and the other conventional coders as these bitrates are not the focus of tuning.

http://losslessaudiocompression.com/DualStream.php
http://www.wavpack.com/wavpack_doc.htm
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofive...php/t24592.html

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #6 –
Quote
Now I know why you are called '384'!

This is my little personal protest because of the fact that the standard Mp3 format doesn't know frames with 384kbps. Mp2 did it and i never have understood, why they skipped it. It would be so great to create Lame-Preset-Extreme files with a maximum frame rate of 384kbps...!


Quote
I tested vorbis Q6 to 128k mp3 and abxed a loss...

Some times ago, to save some disk space a friend of mine began to transcode Mp3 of 192kbps to Ogg of 150-160kbps - and wasted in my opinion his hole collection...


Quote
Since you use 400k bitrates you might want to give wavpack lossy or optimfrog dualstream a go.

Optimfrog i don't know. So thanks for the link! I will spend some times on it as soon as possible.
Wavpack - at least v3.97 - i know, its hybrid mode is a very intersting feature. But one year ago i have prefered flac over wavpack because there are some linux users in my environement. Wavpack v4 is out of course, but i haven't make yet any experiences whit it till now.

However flac and wavpack still are 2x as big as 'my' Ogg files. For all my flac files on my PC i have calculated once a average compression factor of 0.65 resp. almost 900kbps if i remember right. So e.g. only the songs of 'Bruce Springsteen Live' (3CDs) occupy already ~1.5GB.
The much bigger problem than disk space is that my living room player only knows Mp3, Ogg and Wav. - No Wavpack, no Flac and i guess also no Optimfrog. I don't know which audio-format-ignoring fool has constructed it...

Quote
Q9 is overkill for vorbis and the other conventional coders as these bitrates are not the focus of tuning.

Meanwhile I already have heard of it...

So my former decision to make Ogg files with q9 was surley not the best way it was rather the result of all my constraints.
Looking forward for a portable player (that i have now) i already knew that transcoding will cause problems so i made the Ogg files quite big. Generally i like to have files with a little quality-reserve. Maybe there will be soon a better hifi set and moreover you never know how audiophil your guests are...

For the moment i will simply transcode my Ogg files (400kbps) to Mp3 (150kbps) and I hope i will be able to live with it for the holidays...

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #7 –
Quote
John33 just created lameenc-ov, that accepts a vorbis input file to be converted to MP3. Good for people that need to reconvert their OGGs and use them in hardware players.

LameDropXPd now supports vorbis inputs too.

Both new binaries are available at my site.

Regards;

Roberto.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=14713"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Roberto, what is your website?  I need to convert some Ogg files to mp3 and cannot figure out how to do it in Foobar2000.  I try converting them with a lame for foopod setting, but I get an error every time.  Can I use one of these tools to do it easier?

Thanks.

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #8 –
Try winLAME.
And replace its nLAME.dll w/ the newest one at Rarewares.org.

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #9 –
Just out of curiosity (as I don't have any Ogg): is this tool doing some magick for the transcoding process or is it equivalent (quality wise) to using foobar2000 diskwriter configured for LAME?

Thanks!

Sergio
Sergio
M-Audio Delta AP + Revox B150 + (JBL 4301B | Sennheiser Amperior | Sennheiser HD598)

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #10 –
Quote
Just out of curiosity (as I don't have any Ogg): is this tool doing some magick for the transcoding process or is it equivalent (quality wise) to using foobar2000 diskwriter configured for LAME?

Thanks!

Sergio
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=348766"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I can't figure out how to get Foobar to do the transcoding from Ogg to mp3.  This is why I posted here in the first place - hoping to get some insight into how to do the transcoding.  I have tried selecting all the Ogg tracks from my playlist, right clicking, selecting "run convertion" (using the lame preset option).  Every time I try I get an error saying it couldn't access lame or something like that.  I have the lame.exe file in my components folder, so I'm not sure why the error happens.

To reitterate, yes, using foobar would be ideal, since I alreay use it for all of my other music needs.

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #11 –
Try putting LAME.exe in your foobar2000 dir, instead of components. It should work (does for me).

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #12 –
Quote
Just out of curiosity (as I don't have any Ogg): is this tool doing some magick for the transcoding process or is it equivalent (quality wise) to using foobar2000 diskwriter configured for LAME?

Thanks!

Sergio
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=348766"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Did you mean winLAME?
AFAIK, all it does is decoding the Ogg and then encode it to MP3.
I don't know if there's any 'magic' behind it.

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #13 –
Quote
Did you mean winLAME?[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=348873"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually I mean foobar2000 with the diskwriter configured to use lame.exe. I use it all of the time to transcode (encode?) from WavPack to MP3 and I think it can be used to transcode from anything to everything, assuming you have the right input component and encoder.
Sergio
M-Audio Delta AP + Revox B150 + (JBL 4301B | Sennheiser Amperior | Sennheiser HD598)
 

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #14 –
Yesterday, i tried to transcode some 192kbit ogg files into 128kbit oggs. I must admit that i have never heard a worse result of transcoding! There seem to be some signal phase problems at 12kHz+ frequencies that completely waste the sound.

Surprisingly they don't occur when transcoding a 192kbit MP3 into 128kbit ogg and such files sounds even better than ogg->ogg files (even if the quality of the 192kbit ogg file is better than that of the 192kbit MP3).

Moreover, if you decode a 192kbit ogg into a wave file, then encode with MpegPlus (--extreme), then decode to a wav, then encode to a 128kbit ogg - the resulting file sounds MUCH better than a direct transcode!!! If someone could explain this anomaly to me, i'd be very glad.

Until then i'm gonna stick with MpegPlus --insane for archival purposes (when transcoded into a MP3 or ogg, it doesn't bear any aforementioned flaws).

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #15 –
Quote
Every time I try I get an error saying it couldn't access lame or something like that.  I have the lame.exe file in my components folder, so I'm not sure why the error happens.
Quote
Try putting LAME.exe in your foobar2000 dir, instead of components. It should work (does for me).

Firon is right - LAME is no good in the components directory.  It would work in the foobar root.

However, may I suggest putting it in your system32 directory instead?  If you put it there then any (or most at least) program can access it simply by you specifying "LAME.EXE" as the path.

If you put LAME in system32 you only need to keep that version up to date, and any apps that use LAME will be able to use it.  You can then also use LAME from any folder on the command line by just using:

LAME.EXE -V...

... instead of:

"C:\Program Files\foobar2000\LAME.EXE" -V...

NB: Roberto's site is Rarewares.
I'm on a horse.

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #16 –
Quote
Yesterday, i tried to transcode some 192kbit ogg files into 128kbit oggs. I must admit that i have never heard a worse result of transcoding! There seem to be some signal phase problems at 12kHz+ frequencies that completely waste the sound.

Surprisingly they don't occur when transcoding a 192kbit MP3 into 128kbit ogg and such files sounds even better than ogg->ogg files (even if the quality of the 192kbit ogg file is better than that of the 192kbit MP3).

Moreover, if you decode a 192kbit ogg into a wave file, then encode with MpegPlus (--extreme), then decode to a wav, then encode to a 128kbit ogg - the resulting file sounds MUCH better than a direct transcode!!! If someone could explain this anomaly to me, i'd be very glad.

Until then i'm gonna stick with MpegPlus --insane for archival purposes (when transcoded into a MP3 or ogg, it doesn't bear any aforementioned flaws).
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=348892"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Why do u call it MpegPlus, it was like back in the 80's it still had that name : D

OGG transcoding tools.

Reply #17 –
Quote
Yesterday, i tried to transcode some 192kbit ogg files into 128kbit oggs. I must admit that i have never heard a worse result of transcoding! There seem to be some signal phase problems at 12kHz+ frequencies that completely waste the sound.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=348892"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

yup, that happens... encoding to mpc then to back to vorbis probably helps because mpc is a subband coder if I'm not mistaken (i actually have no clue what that really means)... another thing that tends to help when transcoding vorbis to vorbis is using a little phase shift to add some stereo separation.... this transcoding issue is one of the reasons why I use -q 0 right off the bat.

these issues aren't present (at least to my ears) when transcoding vorbis to mp3.. since they compress the sound is very different ways.  I trancode songs from my vorbis collection for use in games like GTA-VC that let you use custom music, but only in mp3.  Of course there is a quality loss, but not enough to drive me insane.
Vorbis-q0-lowpass99
lame3.93.1-q5-V9-k-nspsytune